Plant nutrient advice required

[OzShrimp]

Hopefully someone can help me out, i dont dose fertilizers in my tank for fear of it affecting my shrimp but i have noticed that one of my new Anubias emeral heart's leaves are starting to yellow and i have nfi what to do lol

 

ultimately i want to balance the plant growth and shrimp health and thats the reason i went for the low requirement plants but obviously they are going to need something at least but what?

[Zorba]

I am no plant expert but I believe the yellowing of established leaves is due to low potassium

[JacksonL]

Yellow spots will be potassium deficiency, but yellowing leaves is normally nitrate deficiency. Although it can also be magnesium or iron, if the veins in the leaf are still green but the body of the leaf is yellow it will normally be one of those two, they look identical as magnesium deficiency retards a plants ability to take in iron.

[OzShrimp]

the leaf is going yellow from the outside and working its way inside, i had it happen to one of my anubias nana and the leaves eventually died and fell off and that was it. 

 

[JacksonL]

You will need to experiment a bit, but I would start by adding magnesium sulphate (epson salts) and potassium (K2SO4) as these two would be my prime suspects for deficiencies in an unfertilised tank. I would try adding iron next if that doesn't help and finally nitrate, although it would be odd for nitrogen to be the deficiency unless the tank is super densely planted.

what lights do you have over the tank? Too low light can also cause leaf yellowing.

[OzShrimp]

i have two up aqua pro Z series led's

[jayc]

My bet is on Potassium deficiency as well. This macro nutrient is always the first to be depleted.

A properly maintained shrimp tank is unlikely to be deficient in Mg. That is, as long as you follow the Ca:Mg ratio of roughly 3:1 or 4:1. Which is usually achieved with Salty Shrimp or similar remineralising mixes.

Iron is a micro nutrient, and is only needed in very small quantities.

That's why my DIY remineralising mix is the way it is. Ca, Mg, K, small amount of trace/micro nutrients.

It's in no way designed to fertilise and sustain a lush forest in a shirmp tank. But it's enough to sustain a low tech shrimp tank with mosses and buces and anubias.

[Shrimpy Daddy]

Sounds like chlorosis to me.

Chlorosis are usually caused by one or more of the following:

1. Lack of NO3

2. Lack of CO2

3. Lack of K

4. Lack of iron

The symptom of insufficient NO3 and iron, the yellowing is evenly spread across the leaves. If it is NO3, usually it starts with young leaves and gradually to old leaves.

For lack of K, the yellowing is at the edge and it may turn to burn. It also exhibit pinpoint decay.

For lack of CO2, it will exhibit sign of all the above. To confirm this, you just need to dim the light and/ or increase CO2.

[OzShrimp]

I will take some photos later today am at wprk atm and need sleep when i get home.

 

Is it easy to treat like a seachem regime or something like dino spit etc? 

[JacksonL]

Just get some K2SO4, I get mine from aquagreen, and add it in when you remineralise your water for water changes. 

 

[OzShrimp]

Is it shrimp safe or potentially easy to overdose? 

[Shrimpy Daddy]

K2SO4 is shrimp safe. The only unsafe ferts are nitrogen fert and fert that is designed for terrestrial plant. I dose 0.75ppm of K via K2SO4 daily.

However, I will suggest you don't do anything first. Post your picture and let us analyze it.

[OzShrimp]

K2SO4 is shrimp safe. The only unsafe ferts are nitrogen fert and fert that is designed for terrestrial plant. I dose 0.75ppm of K via K2SO4 daily.

 

However, I will suggest you don't do anything first. Post your picture and let us analyze it.

here we go @Shrimpy Daddy :)

Edited August 26, 2015 by OzShrimp

[Shrimpy Daddy]

The chlorosis is at the edge and tip of old leaves. Hence, very likely is potassium deficiency.

[OzShrimp]

So if i get some K2SO4 this should prevent the problem? Will the leaves green up again ?

how much do i add to my water when i am remineralising ? I generally add 15-30 litres at water change

would this be beneficial aswell?

http://aquagreen.com.au/plant_data/Dinosaur_Pee.html

[fishmosy]

I've had alot of success using the Aquagreen fertilisers. 

[JacksonL]

So if i get some K2SO4 this should prevent the problem? Will the leaves green up again ?

how much do i add to my water when i am remineralising ? I generally add 15-30 litres at water change

would this be beneficial aswell?

http://aquagreen.com.au/plant_data/Dinosaur_Pee.html

use the fertilator at aquaticplantcentral and depending on your water change schedule add about 5-10ppm worth of potassium per week. Don't need to be too exact as potassium doesn't have any toxicity issues for fish or shrimp. I just add a quarter teaspoon to my low tech tank every now and then to make sure I have plenty in there. 

One of the positives of dosing potassium is that it in most instances it will lower your nitrates and phosphates some as currently the potassium is a limiting factor preventing the plants uptaking nitrogen.

most of the times the leaves that are badly discoloured will need to be cut off as they won't go green again. 

 

[OzShrimp]

so am i better off just doing the potassium or dino pee aswell? 

Only thing about the dino pee which concerns me is the copper

[jayc]

Oz,

I (think) have a small spare bag of K2SO4 I bought from Aquarium Online Store. Left over from a 1kg purchase making my own DIY remineralising mix.

I think it's 250gm worth (gotta check when I get home and confirm with you).

1kg cost me $8. So you can have it for $2. Only problem is, shipping will cost more than that.

 

Of course, you can always pick up something else from AOS to offset the shipping costs.

Alternatively, you can check out local gardening shops, or Bunnings or Mitre10. Look for 'Sulphate of Potash'.

Edited August 26, 2015 by jayc

[kizshrimp]

Because the symptoms are shown in the old leaves it is a problem with a mobile nutrient. That excludes Iron and includes Magnesium and Manganese, but the suspicion of Potassium deficiency is most likely as already noted by others. 

Oz that barteri in the first pic looks to have a lot of algae growth to me. That won't help it! I was recently reading a great post from SD on another forum about managing algae growth and I'm sure he can give you some great advice here. 

The Emerald Heart and angustifolia? in the next pics look to be pretty new and only losing the old emersed leaves - you can see the shape difference! Remember that they're grown out of water commercially and just like other emerse-grown plants those leaves will inevitably die when moved underwater. It just takes a long time with Anubias. That angustifolia will look quite different and much smaller once it's all sub-grown. 

With that last point in mind SD is probably the most right when he mentions CO2 as a likely deficient nutrient. That will be it! I think   with your stated goal for the tank balance you just have to wait for the plants to adapt and in the meantime dose some traces and keep the Potassium up. Don't be too scared of Copper, it is essential and only toxic at higher levels. Don't overdose with traces, underdose if anything. Less amount less often. 

 

[OzShrimp]

 

Alternatively, you can check out local gardening shops, or Bunnings or Mitre10. Look for 'Sulphate of Potash'.

3hrs drive to bunnings and gardening shop so 6 hr return trip lol.

 

Because the symptoms are shown in the old leaves it is a problem with a mobile nutrient. That excludes Iron and includes Magnesium and Manganese, but the suspicion of Potassium deficiency is most likely as already noted by others. 

Oz that barteri in the first pic looks to have a lot of algae growth to me. That won't help it! I was recently reading a great post from SD on another forum about managing algae growth and I'm sure he can give you some great advice here. 

The Emerald Heart and angustifolia? in the next pics look to be pretty new and only losing the old emersed leaves - you can see the shape difference! Remember that they're grown out of water commercially and just like other emerse-grown plants those leaves will inevitably die when moved underwater. It just takes a long time with Anubias. That angustifolia will look quite different and much smaller once it's all sub-grown. 

With that last point in mind SD is probably the most right when he mentions CO2 as a likely deficient nutrient. That will be it! I think   with your stated goal for the tank balance you just have to wait for the plants to adapt and in the meantime dose some traces and keep the Potassium up. Don't be too scared of Copper, it is essential and only toxic at higher levels. Don't overdose with traces, underdose if anything. Less amount less often. 

 

All of the plants except the algae covered one is brand new pretty much. i forgot that they would changed upon becoming submersed! that rock wool or whatever it is was a pain in the ass to remove lol.

 

So in simple terms do i just dose that stuff? Should i be dosing over stuff regularly as well to promote growth or anything ?

Oz,

I (think) have a small spare bag of K2SO4 I bought from Aquarium Online Store. Left over from a 1kg purchase making my own DIY remineralising mix.

I think it's 250gm worth (gotta check when I get home and confirm with you).

1kg cost me $8. So you can have it for $2. Only problem is, shipping will cost more than that.

 

Of course, you can always pick up something else from AOS to offset the shipping costs.

Alternatively, you can check out local gardening shops, or Bunnings or Mitre10. Look for 'Sulphate of Potash'.

[kizshrimp]

Dave at Aquagreen sells Rexolin APN or an equivalent trace supplement (at least he used to) and I think you should occasionally dose something like that too. Don't worry about the copper level unless you're using a lot, remember that Aquagreen has bred plenty of shrimp over the years. 

But yes, you could provide the Potassium with just Sulphate of Potash. I like to also use Potassium bicarbonate as my carbonate source. You should be able to buy both those from Dave as well. 

[OzShrimp]

-scratches head- all this stuff and different varieties lol 

[JacksonL]

Haha, there's a million different ways to fertilize a planted tank and what works for me might not work for you.

takes a bit of trial and error to work out the levels your individual tank requires for good growth with no algae. I dose about 5-6ppm of Phosphate into one of my tanks and it uses up nearly all of it (tested using a calibrated colourimeter) but if I dosed that in my other tank it would be an absolute algae farm.

[OzShrimp]

okay well i will buy the stuff in 2 weeks when i get paid :)

 

 

Oz that barteri in the first pic looks to have a lot of algae growth to me. That won't help it! I was recently reading a great post from SD on another forum about managing algae growth and I'm sure he can give you some great advice here. 

 

 

Who is SD i would like to know how to clean them. 

A couple of my plants that have brown on the leaves is caused by sediment which stirred up from my soil and settled on the leaves but i think this is causing them to start getting algae aswell