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wot_fan

wot_fan's 1st shrimp tank

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wot_fan

Yeah I will be suprised if they didnt thrive.

 

I got rili's just after I got my CRS haha although I got 20+ compared to 10 CRS. Now I got a stupid amount of rili's and 20 CRS :S. probably should cull 40 or so rili's but now sure what to do with them.

 

enjoying the updates. Cant wait for the shrimp pics.

Having too many shrimp and needing to cull a bunch is a problem I look forward to :D.

 

I picked up some Stability at lunch and dosed the tank.  Hopefully it will kick start my tank's cycle.

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OzShrimp

Yeah I will be suprised if they didnt thrive.

 

I got rili's just after I got my CRS haha although I got 20+ compared to 10 CRS. Now I got a stupid amount of rili's and 20 CRS :S. probably should cull 40 or so rili's but now sure what to do with them.

 

enjoying the updates. Cant wait for the shrimp pics.

 

Sell them if their good quality, or cull them, sell them to a LFS for store credit, or donate to someone plenty of options :)

Having too many shrimp and needing to cull a bunch is a problem I look forward to :D.

 

I picked up some Stability at lunch and dosed the tank.  Hopefully it will kick start my tank's cycle.

Keep us updated should help you a bit

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Disciple

Sell them if their good quality, or cull them, sell them to a LFS for store credit, or donate to someone plenty of options :)

 

 

lol I wouldnt sell my culls they are so bad. I was thinking of giving them away if anyone would want them haha.

 

sorry for going off subject. What is the most humane way of "culling" a cull?

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Ronskitz

sorry for going off subject. What is the most humane way of "culling" a cull?

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Disciple

sorry for going off subject. What is the most humane way of "culling" a cull?

Bring em to mine for cichlid food thats where all my bad ones go and i keep the decent culls to get someone else started on thier shrimp journey lol

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inverted

I would think putting them in an ice bath or cold water in the fridge for 30 mins to an 1 hr ( puts them to sleep ) and then either slicing in between the eyes or crushing there heads as quick as possible.

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revolutionhope

I used clove oil to euthanise sick fish in the past as recommended by rspca. but feeding them to something bigger and continuing the circle of life maybe best :-)

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inverted

I've seen matt moron at a salmon farm and they dope up the females with clove oil and extract the eggs.

+ 1 on the circle of life...if one of mine dies the others usually eat it still kicking . As a species I think we have a pretty distorted view on the life cycle of the planet.

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kizshrimp

+2 circle of life. That we have a distorted view of life as a species is probably an understatement. In fact it certainly is. 

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wot_fan

Day 25-28 (1/22-1/25)

The tank has been setup for 4 weeks and there still is no sign that it has started cycling.  On Day 25, I started adding Seachem Stability.  I am dosing every 12 hours.  According to user comments I have read as well as the manufacturer, you can’t overdose Stability.  I don’t mind wasting some if it gets my cycle going a little faster.  In addition to the Stability, yesterday I added some ceramic filter media from my community tank to both AquaClears.

 

The algae has continued to expand at an alarming rate.  It looks like it may have choked out some of my moss.  In an attempt to get it under control, last night I dosed the tank with Seachem Prime and added a couple of Otocinclus.  I will continue to dose with Prime until the tank finishes cycling (if that ever happens).  

 

If the algae continues to expand, the only thing l can think of to do is daily WCs.  If I do 80% WCs for a week maybe all the extra nutrients will be leached out of the AS.

 

As always, I appreciate any comments and/or advice.

 

JPEG_image_60596_C943075_2.jpg

JPEG_image_9_E31424923_A7_1.jpg

 

Day_28.jpg

Day_28b.jpg

Day_28c.jpg

Day_28d.jpg

Day_28e.jpg

Day_28f.jpg

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inverted

Your tank is looking great!

Really like your chart and graph.

I think you have done the right thing introducing the otos. It's quite possible that your tank may have cycled as much as it can with out a bioload. You should see a rise in nitrate now you have something in there.

Looking forward to your updates and pics as the tank matures.

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wot_fan

Your tank is looking great!

Really like your chart and graph.

I think you have done the right thing introducing the otos. It's quite possible that your tank may have cycled as much as it can with out a bioload. You should see a rise in nitrate now you have something in there.

Looking forward to your updates and pics as the tank matures.

Thanks Inverted.  

 

The chart and graph are generated by the iOS app I use to track my tank as well as remind me of maintenance.  It isn't perfect, but it does most things I need it to do.  It is called Aquarimate.  If anyone knows of a better app, please let me know.

 

I hope your are right about the otos.  They don't seem very happy in their new tank.  They are swimming the glass most of the time like they are looking for a way out.  I know that Seachem Prime makes the ammonia in the tank non-toxic, but I wonder if it is still stressing the otos.

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wot_fan

I tried to get some pics of the otos.  Below are the two best shots I got.  They weren't very cooperative.

Day_28_Extra_4.jpg

Day_28_Extra_3.jpg

While trying to get a shot of the otos, the largest snail I have seen in the tank by far showed itself.  It is a ramshorn, right?

Day_28_Extra_1.jpg

Before tonight, this is the biggest snail I have seen in the tank.

Day_28_Extra_2.jpg

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Shrimpy Daddy

Day 25-28 (1/22-1/25)

The tank has been setup for 4 weeks and there still is no sign that it has started cycling.  On Day 25, I started adding Seachem Stability.  I am dosing every 12 hours.  According to user comments I have read as well as the manufacturer, you can’t overdose Stability.  I don’t mind wasting some if it gets my cycle going a little faster.  In addition to the Stability, yesterday I added some ceramic filter media from my community tank to both AquaClears.

 

The algae has continued to expand at an alarming rate.  It looks like it may have choked out some of my moss.  In an attempt to get it under control, last night I dosed the tank with Seachem Prime and added a couple of Otocinclus.  I will continue to dose with Prime until the tank finishes cycling (if that ever happens).  

 

If the algae continues to expand, the only thing l can think of to do is daily WCs.  If I do 80% WCs for a week maybe all the extra nutrients will be leached out of the AS.

 

As always, I appreciate any comments and/or advice.

 

JPEG_image_60596_C943075_2.jpg

JPEG_image_9_E31424923_A7_1.jpg

 

Day_28.jpg

Day_28b.jpg

Day_28c.jpg

Day_28d.jpg

Day_28e.jpg

Day_28f.jpg

 

Your picture is way too small to see the algae. What type of algae are you getting?

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wot_fan

Your picture is way too small to see the algae. What type of algae are you getting?

I am not sure.  It is fuzzy like BBA but in my experience BBA forms more clumps than this algae.  

 

Here is a picture of a branch that has been covered by the algae.  Below the image is a thumbnail.  If you click on it, it should open the image in a new window.  If you then click on the new image it should bring up a full resolution (2692x1793) version of the picture. 

Algae2.jpg

Algae_FS_1.jpg

In the picture below you can see the algae at the base of the moss.

Algae1.jpg

Algae_FS_2.jpg

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Shrimpy Daddy

Hey mate,

 

Those are not algae. It looks like fungi to me.

 

What driftwood are those? Driftwood that are not aged will grow fungus. Fungus is good, it provides food source to plankton, shrimp and otocinclus.

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wot_fan

Hey mate,

 

Those are not algae. It looks like fungi to me.

 

What driftwood are those? Driftwood that are not aged will grow fungus. Fungus is good, it provides food source to plankton, shrimp and otocinclus.

Thanks Shrimpy Daddy!!  I am so glad to hear that it is not algae.  I had BBA in my community tank and it was a nightmare to get rid of.

 

The driftwood is Spider Wood that I purchased from my LFS.  It was clean when I put it in the tank.  Shortly afterward the white stuff (fungus?) started to appear on it.  The brown fungus showed up later.  The smaller stuff is Cholla wood.  

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Shrimpy Daddy

Yeah.... BBA is tough. But the worst is spirogyra. At least BBA does not look bad if you leave it alone. It turns pink colour when it is in acidic water (below ph 6.0) and can be pleasing sometime.

 

For new tank that is using ADA AS, spirogyra is a big concern. It will appear when there is ammonia spike under high lighting condition. Since you had lowered the lighting, it should not appear.

 

The "brown fungus" might be diatom coating the fungus. If diatom appears, it is sign of your tank is slowly cycling. This opposed to your testing that the tank is not cycling. The high ammonium may got to do with the ADA AS and also any kind of anti-chlorine or slime coat you are adding. Are you adding any of these sort of product?

 

To remove the ammonium effectively and safely, put in a couple packs of Purigen into your filter. You will see it drops significantly within 24 hours. Purigen will prevent massive ammonium and nitrite spike.

 

Here are a few more good sign to show your tank is cycling:

  1. Appearance of critters, such as cyclop and white round worm.
  2. Your plant is growing and the leaf stopped melting.
  3. Any green algae is growing, such as GSA and GDA.
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wot_fan

 

The "brown fungus" might be diatom coating the fungus. If diatom appears, it is sign of your tank is slowly cycling. This opposed to your testing that the tank is not cycling. The high ammonium may got to do with the ADA AS and also any kind of anti-chlorine or slime coat you are adding. Are you adding any of these sort of product?

 

To remove the ammonium effectively and safely, put in a couple packs of Purigen into your filter. You will see it drops significantly within 24 hours. Purigen will prevent massive ammonium and nitrite spike.

 

Here are a few more good sign to show your tank is cycling:

  1. Appearance of critters, such as cyclop and white round worm.
  2. Your plant is growing and the leaf stopped melting.
  3. Any green algae is growing, such as GSA and GDA.

 

Before I added the Otos, I was not using any water conditioners on the RO water except Salty Shrimp GH+.  I started adding Seachem Prime when I added the Otos to detoxify the ammonia in the tank.  I don't think Prime adds a slime coat, but I will check.

 

After the first week of daily water changes, the ADA AS was only bringing the ammonia level to 0.25ppm. I didn't think that was enough to get a cycle going so I added some ammonia to bring the level up to about 2ppm.  The ammonia brand I am using was recommended by several people online and I used it to cycle another tank so I am fairly confident it doesn't have any additives.

 

I planned to add purigen once my tank cycled.  I was afraid if I added it before that it would slow down the cycle.  If that is not the case, I will pick some up and put it in the tank tonight.

 

Thanks again for all your help.  I was starting to get a little discourage with my tank not cycling and being taken over by "algae".  I'll keep an eye out for the positive signs you listed.

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Shrimpy Daddy

Prime will give you false ammonium reading. It has chemical to alleviate ammonium level, which supposed to increase cycling efficiency. However, this does not work. I had tested that bacteria will fix ammonia and not ammonium.

 

"I didn't think that was enough to get a cycle going so I added some ammonia to bring the level up to about 2ppm." <--- This is a bad idea. The ADA AS will slowly leech ammonium and will not have large spike. Adding ammonia will have a large spike and will kill anything in the tank, which includes bacteria. Next if you are using ADA AS, don't add anymore ammonia, just use alkaline water to leech the ammonia out faster. ;) If you are using inert substrate, you could use ammonium sulphate or ammonia and dose to maximum 1ppm. 

 

"I planned to add purigen once my tank cycled.  I was afraid if I added it before that it would slow down the cycle." <--- The most effective technique is to have gradual ammonium/ ammonia releases into the water. Hence, having 0.5ppm and below ammonium level constantly is better than 2ppm spike. Too much ammonia and nitrite will kill everything in your tank, including your plant.

 

By the way, cycling a tank is not just about ammonia and nitrite. These are the two parameters have been talking by everyone is because they are measurable easily. Hence, all the aquarium products are hyping on them. There are much more complicated stuffs happening during cycling stage. For example, protein-fixing bacteria, sugar-fixing bacteria and plankton will also need to colonise to maintain the environment. One good way to seed some of these microbes is to use a pipette and stick into your community tank's substrate at about 1 to 2cm deep and suck out the water. Dose the water into your new tank. A healthy substrate will contain concoction of all the beneficial microbes that no product in the market has. Do this once a week until your tank is fully cycled. :)

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wot_fan

Thanks once again Shrimpy Daddy.  I will do a WC tonight to reduce the ammonia level.  I will add some purigen at that time. I will also stop adding ammonia and let the ADA AS and the Otos take care of adding ammonia to the tank.

 

For the last few days, I have been dosing with Seachem Stability.  Should I continue?

 

Based on your comment, I will stop using Prime to detoxify the ammonia.  Will the Otos be able to survive?

 

Thank you for the education.  I had no idea there was so much involved in cycling a tank. 

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Shrimpy Daddy

No worries, mate.

 

Stability is fine. But.... One problem with the bacteria in the Stability is that they create a lot of thick biofilm. Not a bad thing, just that it annoys me when my tank glass gets blurry and it tends to allow algae to stick. Pardon me, I am very OCD. LOL!!!

 

I doubt the Prime will totally detox ammonia; tried before and does not really work. Instead, the aerobic bacteria in Stability will consume the ammonia quite rapidly. Once you perform large water change (Sometime Oto may not like it. You have to premix the water 24 hours beforehand) and added Purigen, the ammonium level will decline rapidly.

 

Cycling is usually easy and not complicated. However, there are many methods circulating around and tends to confuse people. Not saying they don't work, but most of them are for general aquarium and not targeting on shrimp tank or planted tank. I think up till now, there is no real article that talks about how to cycle a shrimp tank in a controlled manner.

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wot_fan

I have a bin next to the tank that is connected to my RO filter.  It has been filled since my last WC several days ago but I haven't added SS GH+ yet.  I'll add the GH+ and do a WC in 24 hours.  Out of curiosity, why is it important to premix the water 24 hours in advance?

 

Thanks again for spending so much time helping and teaching me.  I am sure a lot people will benefit from this thread because of your comments.

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Shrimpy Daddy

When salts just dissolved in the water, they are very reactive/ aggressive and could kill. Only are all the ions are in equilibrium, then they will be gentle to livestock.

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wot_fan

When salts just dissolved in the water, they are very reactive/ aggressive and could kill. Only are all the ions are in equilibrium, then they will be gentle to livestock.

Thanks, I didn't know that.  I have been mixing right before refilling the tank after a WC.  Could this have killed my ammonia eating bacteria?

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      I followed the DIY rack build as outlined here: http://shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/topic/7063-diy-rack-for-under-50-in-under-2hrs/
       
      The plan, materials, and costs
      This rack will be located in the lounge room so it has to be 'display-ish' quality and light from it must not interfere with the TV or be too blinding to people sitting around the lounge room. Also, no unsightly hoses/pipes are to be seen. I managed to convince the Minister for Home Affairs that a canister filter and chiller by definition, is not categorised as hoses or pipes, and would be in no way unsightly. The LED display from the chiller would provide subtle mood lighting, and the gentle humming of the filter and soft soothe whirling of the chiller fan would be therapeutic for lounge surfers, and would also greatly enhance movie watching experience with enriched sound depth and effects.
      Hence I received approval to have a canister filter and chiller located next to the rack.
      I used 5 x 5.4m long 90x45mm MGP10 untreated structural pine bought and cut to size from Masters for $83.75. I find Masters generally sells timber cheaper than Bunnings. Since I have both of them close to where I live, I selectively buy what I need from where it is cheaper.
      The frame is held together by 10-8 x 75mm zinc plated countersunk screws. I bought a box of 250 screws from Bunnings for $27.50.
      The rack measures 1390 x 420 x 2200 mm (L x W x H). The plan is to hold 2 x 2'x15"x15" tanks on the top and middle tier each, and a 4'x15"x15" hospital/quarantine/grow out/sump tank on the bottom tier.
      Each tank would be insulated by 20mm foam around the sides, back and base as I plan to run both tropical (28-30 degrees C) and chilled (22-24 degrees C) tanks on this rack. Plumbing for air and sump would be hidden within the frame.
       
      Please disregard the mess in the background. Still sorting out stuff in the garage after the move.
      From this:

       
      To this:

    • KillieOrCory
      By KillieOrCory
      Hi all,
      As some of you know, my currently my set-up looks like this.
       
      With enormous amount of help and encouragement from my fiancee, we have now got the fishroom to this state.
      It feels awesome walking in there to play with water :o
      Amazingly for me things have not stop improving here! We are in the process of building a new house and getting a purpose build fishroom in it.
      The construction started just before Christmas last year.
       
      In this fishroom I wanted to have some of the things I wished I had or I had done in my current set-up.
      1st Priority: Insulation
      I wanted to be able to keep the room warm in winter and cool in summer with minimal power consumption. Living in Canberra we get cold winters (nights especially) and a week or two of extreme heat every summer.
      We decided to build the the whole structure; house and fishroom, with a relatively new building material suggested to us by our builder. It is a thermal facade system called 'Exsulite' it is manufactured by Dulux.
      It is a system that uses foam, foil, airgaps and various boards. It provides a lot better thermal protection than regular bricks for example.
       
      Between this system and the gyprock regular insulation batts are fitted. The whole house including the fishroom and the garage has insulation batts on the ceiling as well.
      I also decided against a door that opens to outside and windows to minimize heat loss through these.
      2nd Priority: Access to water
      I wanted to make sure I had all that I needed within the room in terms of access to water as well as getting rid of waste water. I decided to have a 42L laundry tub fitted into the room to provide all important 'cleaning' station. I no longer need to take over the laundry or worse the kitchen during certain maintenance of various fishkeeping related items.
       
      I have also got a separate tap installed next to the laundry tub to have my water reservoir line to be permanently connected to this tap. I won't need to connect and disconnect this line unnecessarily in the future.
      A center drain in the middle of the room was also a must.
       
      3rd Priority: Access to power
      As with almost everybody that is in the aquarium hobby, I always found I needed more power points than what is available around the tank/tanks. This always inevitably leads to using of powerboards, but even with using quality ones there is always potential to overload or something to go wrong.
      As much as possible I wanted to avoid using power boards and double adapters in the fishroom, though I know resistance is futile and I might resort to these at some stage.
      To ensure I have access to power where I needed I decided to get 20 quad power points installed in the room! That is 80 power points!!! I had to show photos of my current set-up to the builder and the electrician when their eyebrows were raised when I requested this. They were wondering why I need this much power? :anonymous:
      I am getting the power points put in two lines; one over the other. One line is going to be connected to a wired timer. These power points are for the lights. The second line is ordinary points for various other equipment.
       
      The electrician have put another box and 3 circuits in this room alone!
      4th Priority: Lighting and ventilation
      As already mentioned, will be lighting all my tanks relatively well by fishroom standards. I do not see the point of having a fishroom where you can't see the inhabitants of the tanks very well.
      Each row of tanks are to have LED lights fitted above them. I have recently been replacing my T8 fluoro units with these.
       
      I am finding this is saving me a lot of energy.
      As I have been known to leave smelly things in the fishroom; like a bucket of blackworms that have died, it was super important for my fiancee that the room can be easily ventilated! This was something I wanted anyway as the room has no windows and no access to outside aerating the room is not possible.
      We are getting a toilet/bathroom style exhaust fan installed in the room.
       
      Its a type of model that has flaps that close when not in operation providing no gap for heat loss.
      The room is getting two ceiling flouro lights as well, for the times I might walk into the room when the tank lights are off.
      That's about the progress so far. We are still couple of months away from completion.


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  • Posts

    • sdlTBfanUK
      Welcome newbie! That sounds a lot of pests you have? I have used SLAqua Z1 which is meant for hydra and Planaria, and it worked for the hydra I had - not sure if  it is available where you are? It sounds like you have done your research and know what to do? I would probably just buy everything new and start again so there is zero risk of a recurrence as you have several problems, and be slightly quicker and could go up a size of aquarium if that is something that interests you etc and as you state you are going to cycle it again, but I usually do take the easiest route, though that tends to be the costliest! I can't see any problems with your plan though you could just use tap water dechlorinated at stage 6 as that will be removed a week later? I would probably get new sponge for the filter as I expect that is really cheap as well and that can go in with the shrimps in the temporary tank to get some bacteria on ready (it can just float in the tank)!  How many blue bolts do you currently have? Simon
    • Grubs
      I hope you can feed them. I kept pipefish for a while but had enormous trouble feeding them.  They wouldn't take any prepared foods and are massive predators so I was feeding them all my small fish and all the shrimp I could throw at them.    When I got them I thought they'd eat fresh hatched brine shrimp but no they wanted MUCH bigger.   They both jumped out of the open top tank.  
    • Grubs
      DAS are very robust and I've kept them in a tank with Melbourne tap water and in rainwater with  DIY hardness booster.  You'll find them in Northern Australia in both the fresh and brackish sections of rivers so they have really wide tolerances.  My tanks range from 24C to 29C If you get some keep the covers on for the first 2 weeks as they can be jumpy if your water parameters are a long way from what they were housed in. After a couple of weeks they settle down and rarely jump.  I know some people with open tanks put gladwrap over the top for the first couple of weeks only. I'll also suggest that no-way will they interbreed with your Tangerine Tigers -  they are very different shrimp and their bits wont fit together even if they were so inclined.   If money is tight then Paratya are about half the biomass but will breed up easily and also wont cross with the TT .... or do both.  You can keep all three together in the same tank.
    • Crabclaw
      Idk my tds but the rest sounds similar to my tap. If Grubs uses just dechlorinated tap water too then we probably would have the same parameters as we’re both in melb. And that’s my normal temp as well.  How do you keep them @Grubs?
    • sdlTBfanUK
      I would get a few if you like them, the odd loss of a baby shrimp wouldn't really be a problem. There are lots of shrimp people that have the dwarf Corys with their shrimps.As you say, it maybe better to wait a bit until you have more shrimps first but the cory doesn't hunt shrimps as food! Simon
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