Drilled aquarium overflow for sump.

[Zebra]

Hello,

So I've been drilling my 4ft recently to plumb in a sump I got, I guess the main issue is I didn't want an overflow box in the tank, I was planning to do like durso stand pipes with shrimp guards on them, how many holes will I have to drill to not need an overflow box?

So far I have one 1" hole at water level with a bulk head, and thought just draining without a siphon it would take around 1500lph, but things haven't worked out like that.

Ive been looking at the bean animal method among other things, but having trouble finding good links on different drilled setups.

any advice appreciated as I'm pretty stuck now lol. I'm quite confident in drilling the glass now so extra holes isn't a real issue. 

Ive reached my upload limit so no pic sorry,

Its one horizontal pipe at waterlevel with a T attached on the outside, pipe going up to vent and pipe going down for water to drain.

Cheers

[Zebra]

Update: 

Going with a method similar to the bean animal, but of my own design so hopefully no overflowbox is needed in the tank :)

love to upload a pic as it's getting quite technical especially for a first time build haha

[jayc]

Yeah, would love to see a picture of what you are attempting.

[Zebra]

The plan is basically 5x 1" holes at water level in line horizontally, They have polly pipe fittings with shrimp guards, the water will drain through those into an overflow box at the back outside the tank,I cut out of glass and built it myself (first time cutting or joining any glass like that, it's sooo fun!)

The overflow box has 3x 1" holes at the bottom with bulk heads,

from there it's pretty much a bean animal drain that's shrimp safe. With no clunky overflow box in the tank, just 5 horizontal shrimp guards at water level, if all that makes sense? 

Not sure whether to have the box at level with the tank rim or a bit lower. And not sure if I'll need 3 holes in the tank or 5, there's only 1 so far, need to drill the rest before I can silicone the overflow box on, Heading to Bunnings soon to get the rest of the pipe and fittings and 1 more bulk head, hopefully it works out, I've only planned out one smaller sump before on a tiny 2ft beta tank divided into 5 :) its off tap, I'll post pics of it on another thread.

Here's a pic, So what do you think?

cheers

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Zebra

[Madmerv]

From what i hear it is the best design for a sump return, The box should be at tank level because if the power goes out and then comes back on it takes a little while for the siphon tube to purge all the air. Basically the box will fill up a bit more than usual so the secondary drain will be taking most of the flow for a short time and it is not siphoning (sucking) it is just falling with air mixed. The box fills high than at normal operating level i hear. Better to be safe than sorry although i cannot see it filling any higher than the emergency overflow level and you set that height to where you want but it needs to be higher than the top of the siphon elbow.

I would love to know how you drilled the glass and got such a neat hole. Almost no large chips that i can see around the edge.

[Zebra]

Cheers mate, I ended up gluing it at level with the tank. Just finishing the plumbing now, But so far it's all working very nice, I'll post an update pic when it's done and back in place. (It has hanging lights and other tanks built into the cabinet haha everything is a mess right now)

Thanks, but it's probably just the pic lol a lot of my holes ended up with small chips and they weren't fully straight so I had to go back over them to get the bulkheads to fit, but it's  like my first time drilling glass so I'm just happy nothing cracked or exploded :)

I put a small bucket on top of the tank and used airline tubing with a tap to drip water down the glass onto the drill bit, and an airline suction cap to hold it perfectly over the job. Just a towel underneath to soak it up, (had to swap the towel a few times over the 4 holes)

I just used my dewalt cordless drill, (I figured cordless cause it's working with water dripping over the job-and I don't have a corded drill )

Set the torque right down to 1. Start off with the drill speed on 1 aswell, just start on an angle and slowly straighten up till your level then you can increase the speed to 2 and full revs is fine as long as your quite straight and level.(this is with my drill) I think the main key to drilling glass is ZERO pressure, you have to let the drill bit do all the work.

I was thinking about it and apart from how practical the term is to say, "Drilling" is probably a bad word for it tbh, it's more like very course polishing lol same with "cutting glass" It's more like a guided break then an actual cut.

I wanted to make up ply wood guides and clamp them onto the tank so it's perfectly level and the drill bit doesn't walk, I think this would give the neatest holes :)

I think some chips in the last few mm is pretty much inevitable though, maybe the pros come in from the other side for the last few mm? Idk. 4mm is easier and cleaner to drill then 6mm.

1" holes took about 30min each.

cheers

Edited October 28, 2016 by Zebra

[Madmerv]

Thanks for that info. I plan on setting up a 4 footer with a sump outside on the patio and was wondering how i was going to get it done. Going to the LFS or glass shop costs to much just for a couple of holes. You have inspired me to give it a go myself.

 

[Zebra]

Yeah man go for it, It's not as scary as it first seems.

Make sure it's not tempered glass first, there's simple tests you can do yourself to find this out. Tempered glass will just explode into a million pieces.

Practice on the flat bottom of beer bottles or find some scrap glass till your confident with it.

Main thing is water to keep it cool and lubricate it, and use very little downward pressure. And just be patient it seem so to take forever when your doing it. Hope this helps.

Also tape the back of the hole so shards don't go everywhere and the piece you drill doesn't fall out, and empty atleast 3/4 of the tank before drilling, (both relieves pressure and just incase something goes wrong it's less water to mop up lol) there's lots of DIY guides check them too as I'm sure ive missed something.?

[Zebra]

Note: 

I think with the bean animal drain if the water level is set right in your overflow box you don't need a U shape on the siphon, it won't create a vortex and the siphone starts instantly at start up or restart. From playing around with the plumbing this works in practice.

[Madmerv]

3 hours ago, Zebra said:

Note: 

I think with the bean animal drain if the water level is set right in your overflow box you don't need a U shape on the siphon, it won't create a vortex and the siphone starts instantly at start up or restart. From playing around with the plumbing this works in practice.

I think you need to explain that a touch more Zebra or show me some photo's. My understanding was the main siphon line, fitted with a valve, was set for a full siphon with no air in the line and therefor silent. The secondary line had a trickle of water going down it but the water adhered to the pipe as the volume was minimal and was therefor silent also. The systems i have seen have had the top of the elbow on the siphon line level with , or slightly lower than, the open top of the secondary line. This was suppose to allow complete evacuation of air in the siphon line. The third line was completely open and higher than the others as a back up in case of complete blockage in the first two. 

I hope that makes sense. It does to me anyway.

 

[Zebra]

Your right about how the system normally works, except I'm sure people only started using the inverted "U" on the main siphon to prevent a vortex being created, but ive tested and tested again and it's not needed if your overflow Is designed properly. Also realised the whole system runs better if you place the main siphon to one side and the "spare Darin" or emergency in the middle.

ill post some pics when Its daylight :) but yeah I'm 100% sure it works fine without the u pipe to a point where you could actually have the siphon hole at the bottom of the tank(except the possibility of the whole tank emptying)

im pretty sure it just governs how much water can go from the overflow box to the sump at power failure if that makes sense? It's hard without pics and such a strict upload limit here.

test it for yourself though it works :)

Also only 1 tap is needed (on the main siphon only) as you will only back up your overflow box and then display tank if you restrict the open drains. :) coincidentally I designed this without realising it already kind of exsisted lol

cheers

Edited October 29, 2016 by Zebra

[Madmerv]

Ok i get it now. Just have to have the siphon inlet far enough from the surface of the water so as to not create a vortex and have it suck air. Makes sense. also good call having the secondary away from the main.

If you use a third party upload site like photobucket or flikr then there is no limit to the photo's you can post here.

[Zebra]

Cheers, 

Yeah that's exactly it.

Good to know, I'll have to start a flickr account ?

 

[Madmerv]

As you are now my go to expert on this, lol, What are you going to use to cover the holes going into the overflow box so shrimpets dont go for a ride to the sump?

[Zebra]

Haha me an expert? Now that's  laugh. :)

Im just using poly pipe fittings with those stainless steel shrimp guards from eBay, I don't like the idea of covering the overflow but made more holes then I needed to just incase. 

So there will be 4 horizontal shrimp guards in a line at water level. That takes the water into my overflow. I've been slack and haven't finished This build yet haha but I'll get onto it this week and post some finished pics. 

[Zebra]

Be careful with the stainless steel shrimp guards from eBay, In the pics on their eBay ad the mesh and ends are electro welded neatly, They arrived today and the ends are glued on with some tacky half set gel that smells like petrol. I'm hitting them up for a refund.

Edit*

So I had to order some stainless steel mesh and make my own. 

Ebay ruled in my favor and gave me a refund.

 

Update*

The external overflow box is siliconed in, (been thinking about adding triangle glass brackets under it, but not sure it's big enough to need the extra support)

The bottom of the pipes are glued in and all sitting about 3cm below water level in the sump,

Haven't glued in the overflow box fittings yet, still kind of hard to guage without the return pump, (return pump should be here Thursday.- 3000Lph)

I emptied out and cleaned the whole tank, I'm going with 2 huge pieces of goldvine and using seiryu stone. Bought a 25kg box of Amazonia on the weekend, 

thinking of painting the back black too.

So will update with a finished pic soon I hope :)

Edited December 5, 2016 by Zebra

[Kaylenna]

2 hours ago, Zebra said:

Be careful with the stainless steel shrimp guards from eBay, In the pics on their eBay ad the mesh and ends are electro welded neatly, They arrived today and the ends are glued on with some tacky half set gel that smells like petrol.

Yeah, I've had them like that a time or 2.  Sometimes they rust as well - not so stainless steel.  That's why I started making my own.  For a quick fix, you can use hot glue guns - make sure to press the mesh together into the glue so it oozes around the wires and it'll hold very well.  Also good for covering any pokey bits.

[Zebra]

Nice, could you share a link to a DIY on making them please?

yeah it's weird cause they've joined the seem with welding cause it's mis coloured or slightly rusty but The ends have glue.

 So strange.

Ive tried soldering stainless steel lately for other things but not much luck.

This is how the tank looks now, I'll post better pics of the actual plumbing when it's fully finished.

cheers

[Kaylenna]

6 hours ago, Zebra said:

Nice, could you share a link to a DIY on making them please?

I didn't do it from a link.  I just went out and bought very fine marine grade mesh, cut it to size, and shaped it to whatever I needed.  Hot glue works amazingly to hold it together because it's got many little wires to grip if you do it right.  But you do absolutely have to shape the mesh first - like if you're making a tube, roll the mesh against the edge of a table/counter to get it to curl by itself rather than just holding it in tube form, gluing, and hoping it stays.

I recently had to remove part of a divider that was hot-glued on to another mesh piece.  The glue was the only thing holding the 2 pieces together like a T... and I had to cut it apart with a knife and a lot of force because it was that firmly stuck.

[Zebra]

This is the tank now :) 

I think I'm finally actually happy with one of my scapes haha

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Zebra

[Madmerv]

Nice Zebra. That tank is looking good.

[Zebra]

Cheers mate.

Just finished plumbing in the return and figuring out how to best layout my sump, 

Do ceramic rings or "noodles" expire like? 

Most of my media is gutter guard, jap mating, lava rock and poly fill, planning to put a few bags of activated carbon in there too. Maybe make a fluid motion filter with pool filter sand somewhere in the sump too, was thinking of running a big one off the main siphon, but being a planted tank with injected co2 I've had to minimalise surface disturbance to keep my co2 in the system, the bean animal drain has worked wonders for this, along with having quite a high operating level in the sump.

I kind of had to work around the heater and have had lots of other projects on during this build so it has seemed to just be my life now haha hopefully get it all cleaned up and post some update pics tonight :) but now have the 3000LPH return and everything is running like a dream, my plants are gonna love the increased flow.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Zebra

[Madmerv]

5 hours ago, Zebra said:

Cheers mate.

Just finished plumbing in the return and figuring out how to best layout my sump, 

Do ceramic rings or "noodles" expire like? 

 

The ceramic rings never expire as such but i have heard that the micro pores can eventually get clogged up so the rings work less efficiently. This takes years under normal operation and can be fixed. Just need to soak them in an acid or alkaline solution, sorry cant remember which, for a day or two to break down the organics in the pores, rinse and off you go again.

[jayc]

You can prolong the rings from clogging  by placing it last in the chain of your filter flow, so after the coarse, medium, fine sponges.

Give it a rinse when you see too much mulm build up will also help.

Cleaning filters should be  a regular routine anyway to avoid "old tank syndrome".

[Zebra]

So here is some Pics of this build finished, has been up and running about a week now im just lazy lol.

Was nice sitting back with a beer after this one. :) I'll probably go back over the thread and summarise what I didn't in a post at the end for anyone interested in the build info. 

Enjoy

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Zebra