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Crabby

My new 5 Gallon

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Crabby

Hey folks!

So I got myself a little 5 gallon (20L) recently (it was free!) to use for quarantine. I’m going to use it to qt some cory cats and maybe some tetras or gouramis for my community tank. The thing is, I’ve got it set up really nicely in my room and I want to have it actually stocked. I definitely don’t want a betta, but I found some super cute guppies on gumtree (Wild Thai Orchid) that I can never find locally. How many guppies do u think I could get in the tank?? The seller only has 4 pairs, so is selling in pairs but not trios, so that could have an affect on the amount. I also plan on adding shrimp, either of a neo or caridina variety, or native - like dae or chameleons. 

So my questions are: how many guppies could go in the tank (assuming they breed and I keep the babies in with them for about a month each time), could I fit in anything else (with a pair or 4), like a couple of chilli rasboras or rocket killies, and will the shrimps be enough for a cleanup crew, or should I add an Otto or something?

Cheers!

Edited by Crabby
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jayc
1 hour ago, Crabby said:

I want to have it actually stocked.

HAHA LOL.

All my QT tanks have been used for other shrimp or fish as well. I can never keep a QT tank for very long.

 

A 20L tank isn't very big, so 5 or 6 initial guppies accounting for babies in the near future. 

The tank can hold some shrimp but I would think it is too small for another type of fish.

 

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Crabby

Great. I’ll probably change it up at some stage to feature some other cute nano fish, but I’ll keep it simple for now.

Can we get nerites in Australia?

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Frosty

How about one male two females and some rocket killies? I think that would work and maybe even some shrimp also if it’s not intended for breeding. You can always relocate some of the killies to your community if it doesn’t work.

Sorry not shrimp snails.

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Crabby

No I intend to breed. As I said the guy is only selling in pairs so cannot do a trio. Problem with the killies is that they prefer schools. It’s one or the other really. And I can do killies any time, so I’m going for the guppies for now, unless anyone has a good reason why I could do both.

 

The only snails I’ll do are nerites, so they don’t breed. Waiting for aquagreen to get their native nerites back in stock.

In terms of shrimp, could I do natives like dae or chameleons? ( @jayc)

Edited by Crabby
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Frosty

They only breed in brackish but still lay infertile eggs everywhere and it looks disgusting in small tanks. I’d recommended rabbit snails as they have two genders and will only breed with the other sex so make sure you get all males or females the only downside is they are a little pricey.

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Frosty

Even if you get both males and females they only give birth once a month to two baby snails.

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Crabby

Rabbits are crazy cool. But they’re big and totally pricey.

I’ll probably just avoid snails altogether. Shrimp will do.

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Crabby

Actually I'm starting to think that I could do a pair or two of rocket killies to hang out up top, as the guppies mainly explore the top to middle. I don't think that 6-8 adult nano fish in a 20L is tooo much, is it? With babies it would just be survival of the fittest, I guess, and those who make it go into my big tank or get sold. And I'm still planning on keeping some chameleons or my TTs in here. I might get some DAE eventually, which would QT and grow in this tank then move to my 110. 

Can I have some opinions on this from the mods or anyone who cares?

Cheers!

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sdlTBfanUK

That probably is a bit too much fora 20L I have 8 fish in 30L (each fish max 1 inch) and some shrimps and snails. Guppies produce quite a ;lot of waste as well! I would personally pick one or other, either the 6-8 guppies or the 4 rocket killies, and some shrimps. As you state, the guppies will have babies so that adds to the bioload etc as well? Would the killie eat the baby guppies? As you have already said, it is probably a case of pick one or other??

If you really want to mix then I MAY try a pair of killies (though you say they are schooling fish) with 2 pairs of guppys (check they are compatible first in a small tank though) at the most (plus shrimps). The other thing to bear in mind is that if it is a 20L tank, it probably only has 16L of actual water with other bits in the  tank (substrate, heater, filter, ornaments, plants etc etc) and it not filled to the rim - my 25L has 20L of water, my 35L has 28L of water? 

As for snails, it does add another interest to the tank, I keep assassins in all my tanks, they do breed (slowly) but even I can easily catch them when their are too many. They will help keep the tanks cleaner (glass etc) and devour anything that may die as soon as it dies, so I always include some snails!

You should also plan to do maintenance and water change once a week of about 20% if sensibly (not over) stocked.

If you decide in the future to get nano fish like the chilli/spotted rasbora then 8 of those would be what I would (and had planned for my 25L if the betta didn't survive) with no other fish of coarse?

Hope this gives you something to mull over, but I would not class myself as an expert..............

Simon

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jayc
5 hours ago, Crabby said:

In terms of shrimp, could I do natives like dae or chameleons?

I don't see why not. If you are buying from Aquagreen, they might have some DAE or Chameleons too.

You could stretch the total population of the tank if you get a large external canister filter. By large I mean something that is aimed at filtering a tank larger than a 20L tank. That will increase the bio filtration and you could stock more in the tank. Just don't go too crazy.

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sdlTBfanUK

I have been looking around and the general consensus is not to keep guppies with killis, so you would be better off one or the other type and so I guess you would pick the breeding guppies? I would just start with 4 guppies though as they will produce 2 lots of babies anyway with the 2 pairs!

Simon

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Crabby
9 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Would the killie eat the baby guppies

I’ve kept them together before, and while there were no babies the killies have such tiny mouths that it wouldn’t make a huge difference.

9 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

I always include some snails!

Yeah I think it’s just a thing of finding a nice looking snail that won’t ruin my scape with eggs or overbreeding. I’ll look into it a little more.

 

9 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

You should also plan to do maintenance and water change once a week of about 20% if sensibly (not over) stocked.

Yeah of course

8 hours ago, jayc said:

If you are buying from Aquagreen

That was my plan. Just was worried that chameleons might be too small?

 

8 hours ago, jayc said:

large external canister filter.

I wish this was an option, but as I said it’s in my room, in a very small spot/setup. I’m using an eheim 100 air pump with a sponge filter.

7 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

one or the other

Yeah okay I think you’re probably right. I’ll just keep it simple. Maybe I could get another ‘QT’ tank in the future 😉

Thanks so much guys! I really appreciate the help!

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Crabby

Hey all, 

so at the moment I’m cycling the tank, and I’m using the ‘shrimp cycle’ method - using a piece of raw prawn or fish to produce the ammonia - and I don’t know when I should take it out... It smells super bad, and it’s in my room. So I don’t want it in the tank any longer than necessary. If I’m already seeing readings of ammonia can I take it out and let the beneficial bacteria handle it from there? Or do I have to wait until I start seeing the first readings of nitrates?

Cheers!

 

 

(Aaah it smells so bad in here HEEEELP MEEE!)

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jayc
10 hours ago, Crabby said:

wait until I start seeing the first readings of nitrates?

This.

But, did you use a whole prawn?

Now that it is decomposing, you only need a small sliver for it to keep producing ammonia. Chuck the rest away.

Edited by jayc
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Crabby

Aah yes thanks jayc! I’ve been using a chunk of raw fish. I’ll get rid of most of it ASAP.

Cheers

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jayc
7 hours ago, Crabby said:

I’ll get rid of most of it ASAP.

LoL.

yeah do that. Don't need to stink the whole house out.

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Crabby
2 hours ago, jayc said:

Don't need to stink the whole house out

Yeah... wayyyyy too late for that!

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Crabby

Not sure if I should create a new thread for this question, but it’s this - is a 6 watt LED good enough for keeping hairgrasses in a 5 gal? The tank is 26 cm deep - only 22 if u go from substrate up - and I want to keep some eleocharis parvula, and eleocharis caespitosissima. And maybe some Alternanthera Reineckii mini. The light I’m looking at is this: https://www.thetechden.com.au/Pet_Worx_Multi_Spectrum_Mini_6w_Clamp_LED_Light_p/ba02.htm

Cheers,

Crabby

 

Edited by Crabby

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Frosty

The wattage isn’t that important what you should be focusing on is lumens and kelvin (warmth) the light says it’s 6500k which is good but doesn’t say how many lumens (brightness) it is. I would find out more about it before making a purchase. Generally a plant will need 20 lumens per litre of water.

 

1 watt= 30-55 lumens

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Crabby
2 hours ago, Blazepelt said:

a plant will need 20 lumens per litre of water.

I would have thought this would have been more in relation to depth than litres, as my tank is quite shallow in relation to say a 5 tall, while it still has the same capacity.  Wouldn’t that make a difference? 
 

Another site mentions it has a light frequency of 460 nanometers. Does that affect anything?

Edited by Crabby

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Frosty

That’s the colour of light so 460nm is referring to the wave size 

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sdlTBfanUK

That light sounds like it is about right for the tank, mine has water 22cm deep and I have that TYPE (LED) of lamp 6W, 6500K, 500 lumens. I tried some grass that I bought that was on a metal mesh that had a plastic coating over the mesh. It didn't do very well and went a bit yellow (didn't die though) so I don't know how well it would grow, but would give it a go anyway, there's little to lose? I removed it as the plastic started coming off the mesh and the mesh started to rust - looked horrible? All plants take some time to settle in though so may look a bit uninspiring for a while until the roots establish? In my newest tank ALL the plants looked bad for a while but none actually died and now they are flourishing (too bloody well)!

I found this link which may help you decide? I assume you are using a soil substrate?

https://www.aquascapeaddiction.com/articles/dwarf-hairgrass-carpets-made-easy 

Your actual question though I can't help much with and will hope others will help there. My philosophy is 'try it and it either will, or won't work', but the grass I tried was the only plant that I have ever discarded and that wasn't really anything to do with the plant, more the mesh it was supplied with?

The only other thing I can think off that is related is, lots of people use CO2 with grasses etc, but this is best avoided and not necessary as it will live without it (It would do better with CO2 but the risk to shrimps is too great to warrant it, only use CO2 for a plant only aquascape tank).

Simon

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Crabby

Thanks Simon, that's really useful! I don't use a soil or planted tank substrate, but I'm dosing ferts and using root tabs. Mine didn't come in mesh or anything, so not too worried about that. I've bought the plants but not the light. Plants are quarantining and looking fantastic, so I really hope that they will do well in this other tank. I'm not going to use CO2, though.

That link was really helpful. I think I will just go for that light, as it's the nicest I can find nearby without resorting to the deathtrap of low-quality products that is eBay. 

Cheers,

Crabby

 

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sdlTBfanUK

I'm not too sure how well grass will do without soil substrate, which is the usual substrate for planted tanks. I would expect the plants to take longer to settle in without soil so don't be too quick to remove plants until you are really sure they are completely dead/dying! They will all get worse before they get better.

Too much fertiliser can also be dangerous to shrimps? 

Simon

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      So I did some research on chimerism in shrimp today. It appears it is true chimerism and apparently some shrimp exhibiting are either sterile or unable to breed due to potentially mixed sex organs.   I believe I know a common origin point of chimeras, and also that I know who the dam(?) of that shrimp is and that she conferred the trait. For now mum is the word until I test my theories by inbreeding the pair and or outbreeding the chimera.
    • Shrimpneewbie
      So i would just follow your ratio ca:mg as per your diy mix for the sulawesi? besides using ro water to dissolve it, are there any other easier ways to make it dissolve in water? And when you mean cold, is like 20celcius okay? Sorry if im wrong, pounded down as in getting a mortar and pestle and pounding it down? Sorry if im asking too much
    • Dsetz
      Finally got photos of my chimera! I'm trying to find another for sale for crossings. Or maybe offspring as people don't want to part with them.   Here is the 36 gal, mostly planted. EBB and metallic galaxies going in here today, for now. First scape. Tried a bunch of rocks to no end. Lost most of the slope. I think primordial was achieved though. 20+ plants, won't go into them unless someone asks. Been hitting them with gentle light, co2 and ferts. A ghostie just cuz.   Red onyx are gorgeous and gregarious shrimp.   Still haven't got a good photo of the emeralds and I'm sure everyone knows blue diamonds.   I'll go hunt up pics of the shrimps incoming in the future so we can compare them to actual shrimps down the road. Adios
    • jayc
      I don't keep Sulawesi shrimp. So if i buy the ingredients for it, they won't get used and will be a waste of my money. Hope you understand. If you still want to try making it look for  Calcium Chloride Dihydrate  Magnesium chloride hexahydrate  Potassium chloride    For Neos, you replace the Calcium sulphate with Calcium carbonate completely. So the formula will look like this ... Calcium carbonate CaCO3 60gm Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4 35gm solubility of CaCO3 is a lot worse in water compared to CaSO4. The acidity in RO water will help. Cold RO water will help it dissolve more too. The CaCO3 needs to be pounded down as fine as possible to help it dissolve. 
    • Shrimpneewbie
      Do you think it would be possible if you could help by remaking one for sulawesi shrimps? and for neos do i add calcium carbonate and calcium sulphate or just use 10-20g of calcium carbonate? 
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