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BlueBolts

Mischlings

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BlueBolts

There's been numerous queries/discussions on mischling's so I thought I'd start a thread for all members to discuss, and share their experiences...etc

Mischlings are a "shrimp" category describing a TB (Taiwan Bee - King Kong, Blue Bolt & Wine Red) x with a CRS/CBS/GB (Golden Bee)/SW (Snow White). Breeders will often cross their TB with a CRS/CBS/GB/SW to introduce the TB gene's into their stock, just in case disaster hits, plus it multiplies their probability of TB shrimplets etc.....Minchlings are then used to x back to a TB, which will result in a % of TB off it's shrimplets.

Mischling x Mischling won't neccesarily produce any TB....my personal experience extends to F3 generation, and to date, this has not resulted in any TB's. I've been told that a F5/F6 mischling still does not produce any TB's.

Hobbyist keen to take the next step to TB's should really purchase a TB 1st, x with their existing stock to create mischling's, then once they are confident, can either purchase more TB's to x back to their mischlings, or if budget and tank permits, purchase more then 1 x TB, and get their TB colony happening sooner.

Purchasing mischling's should always be done with a reputable breeder, or one that can show and proof that the mischling did come from a TB cross.

Pics of some CBS/CRS minchlings ....they tend to look like lower grade or washed out CRS/CBS, although I have some minchlings that actually look quite good, so it's difficult to ascertain whether you're actually buying a low grade CRS/CBS or a minchling .... unfortunately, there will be people out there that will take advantage of this....

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Any other experiences, thoughts, queries appreciated, as it seems to be frequently queried ....

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Sprae

Thanks for the great info BB!

So to start any TB gene, it's best to get one TB M/F to breed with any of your CBS/CRS? Any other differences to keeping CRS/CBS?

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Matt_95

Great write up Marcus, I'm looking to get some when I am back from holidays.

Is it minchling or mischling? Mischlingis german for crossbreed so I assumed it was that, I have seen 3 different ways to say it though so I am confused.

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fishmosy

Thanks for the write up.

I'm wondering why you would cross the TB with a CRS to produce mischlings rather than simply breeding breeding TB to TB?

I.e. Could you maybe explain why you would want to produce mischlings if your aim is to produce TBs?

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HexaD

Great write up, thanks for the info!

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lachie1998

Great info there Marcus.

I think i might try out some mishlings next winter:encouragement:

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Jess

Ooh, that explains a lot! Thanks for the great info :D

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BlueBolts

Sprae - TB's a more sensitive and difficult in comparison to CRS's....so definite progression would be cherries, CRS's, TB's ......Like many, lots of $$$ spend with no success, but with failure comes wisdom/experience, and eventually hopefully success.

fishmosy - $$$ is unfortunatley one of the main motivators of decisions. So a person venturing into TB's may not want to spend the $ on an immediate colony, and purchase just 1 TB, to prove and gain confidence of their shrimp breeding skill.

If a hobbyist just want to purchase 1 TB, I tend to recommend getting a male...this way, he can berry as many female CRS/CBS, and get the TB genetics into your breeding stock. There are more potential issues with berried females, so to be on the safe and productive side of the breeding equation, having one berried TB female vs several berried CRS female off a TB gives you more numbers and favourable odds.

TB x Mischling will give you a good potential of TB's within it's off springs, whereas mischling x mischling = potentially 0.

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Dan_97

Wow, great info!! Clears everything up for me too :)

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Gbang

thanks for the write up bluey!!! guys minchlings are very very helpful in the taiwan bee breeding missions! it will always strengthen the genes of your future taiwans bees with the introduction of crs and cbs genes :) as proof of their usefulness here is an old thread of mine which showed the results of crossing cbs minchlin females with my blue bolt male.

http://www.shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/showthread.php/594-BB-x-CBS-Minchling-results!!!

anyone else with success please add a link here to make this thread more informative :D

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fishmosy

Thanks for clearing that up Bluebolts.

Its seems to me that there seems to be less hesitation/ more acceptance to create hybrid shrimp compared to creating hybrid fish, unless I'm mistaken in thinking TB and CRS are different species.

Can someone really justify saying that they have TBs when they have been produced from CRS x TB parents (particularly if selling them as TB)? Should we be concerned with maintaining "pure" strains of shrimp or because most of our shrimp have been bred to be so different from the original species collected from the wild that it doesn't matter?

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emboli

Very interesting thread. Thanks for the writeup and I look forward to more

threads on this topic

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Matt_95

They're all just mutations of the same species, Caridina cantonensis. So by crossinf them, you're not making hybrids, just crossing line bred versions of the same species.

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BlueBolts

There's no real way to confirm a mischling vs CRS/CBS. Mischling tends to appear washed out, void of through colour/depth, BUT so are low grade CRS/CBS......as mentioned previously reputable breeder is strongly recommended.

Perhaps the reason that not many mischling appear FS in international forums are due to these issues, and reputable breeders do not want to be accused of selling non-mischling etc.....

+1 on Gbang & Matt_95 .....

In Oz, TB's @ it's infancy stage, so lots for all of us to learn and share. Perhaps some of our international members can add and comment on this thread .... & Dean ..

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fishmosy
They're all just mutations of the same species' date=' Caridina cantonensis. So by crossinf them, you're not making hybrids, just crossing line bred versions of the same species.[/quote']

Thanks Matt, I was under the illusion they were derived from different species.

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simont

Thanks for the great explanation. And $$$ saving tip by crossing a TB male with existing female stock. Does it matter what grades the CRS /CBS are?

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BlueBolts

Hi Simont,

Generally not....BUT, I'm trying to selective breed TB's to have a mosura pattern, so theoretically and genetically I'm pairing up mischling mosura's with my TB's.

Mischlings are generally seen to just be a carrier of TB gene's, so it's grades does not matter ...

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jrc693

When mixing a CBS/CRS with a TB, is there any benefit or difference between using a CBS or CRS?

THanks!

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BlueBolts

Hi jrc693, CBS/CRS are really just used as a carrier (recessive genes).

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jrc693

yeh thought so, was just wondering cuz all the charts in the other thread was always showing with CBS. But thanks! cant wait to get into TB's!

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Neo-shrimp

Thanks Matt_95 and Bluebolts on Mischlings...Can anyone tell me about PINTO? Not sure about them like Mischlings ? Cheers CJ

They're all just mutations of the same species, Caridina cantonensis. So by crossinf them, you're not making hybrids, just crossing line bred versions of the same species.

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BlueBolts

Pinto's are still a guarded secret international breeder keep. We've just got to figure it out with x's etc....lots of speculations and theories out there...

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Naraic

So the TB genes carried by the CBS/CRS Mischling are recessive? Meaning probably less than a 25% chance of (what could be considered a TB) return in F1 of a Mischling/TB cross? With improving rates of TB characteristics in F2 onwards through selection right?

The Gene Genie Out

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gaz086

This thread answered my question about what a mischling is, but since this was all written, has there been any changes or advances with the info?

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BlueBolts

Info remains, with the exception of many hobbyist experiencing TB's off Mishling x Mishling. The resulting juvies of these are referred to TBMM, whereas TB x Mishlings are referred to TBM. These do not have pure TB genes, and their price are reflected by this...as TBM x TBMM for example, can produce a % of mishlings...

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