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Great write up Marcus, I think this was really needed on the forum, especially to highly the likes of TB vs TBM vs TBMM. The one thing I would say though as well, if you're breeding TBs and TBMs then please know which are which when it comes to selling. I've had a couple which I'd brought as TB however it appears with the young produced that they were TBM, quite fustrating and I paid a good price for them, so I would say know your dealer! The result from a cross as I found was far from what I expected and I've got 4 shrimp that although I'm keeping as they look good they're not TBs as they had siblings from the same drop that are Mischlings :-(

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Totally 100% agree ! Especially from a selective program perspective, introducing a "false" TB (ie. TBM or TBMM), will set the program back, which is extremely frustrating. Totally appreciate the use of mishlings for newbies, and for a genetic/strength injection, but when selling, honesty is important !

Imagine having olony of PR's, with 2-3 years of selective breeding, and introducing a false PRL, and it throws out CBS, SW/GB's etc.... That'll be sooooo f&(9(!%#! frustrating.

The next phase/level is patterns, with TB's... i.e. SSS/SS grades etc.... Be great if someone has a selective program based on pure SSS/SS graded TB's, as I'm desperately searching for a WR & KK with these grades... :-)

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Thanks for the info again BB, one thing I found since I ventured into TBs was that I always found myself referring back to the chart from Fabio Silva, which best explains the "theory" of TB's off-springs in this thread you posted a while back

http://www.shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/showthread.php/1236-TB-Taiwan-Bee-Breeding-Program

Since this is a sticky, would it be okay to attach the chart to the first post? It really helped me in understanding TB/Misch/TBM/TBMM, and hope it can help others as well :)

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The next phase/level is patterns' date=' with TB's... i.e. SSS/SS grades etc.... Be great if someone has a selective program based on pure SSS/SS graded TB's, as I'm desperately searching for a WR & KK with these grades... :-)[/quote']

Completely agree. :victorious:

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  • 5 months later...
  • 3 months later...

Great info - thanks. I'm just starting out with tbs and crossing with mischlings as am not confident in outlaying a large amount of money just in case it doesn't work out. I have separated my mischlings into 2 seperate tanks and have the opposite gender tb with them in order to avoid any production of tbmm :) although I only have male tbs ATM anyways. If I get some female tbm offspring then I will cross tb with tb obviously :)

Just have a question:

A pure tb x f5/6 mischling - the non tb offspring, are they classified a a mischling or just CBS/crs? I mean obviously they don't possess enough tb gene to be a tb but how can we know exactly how far they were away from beinga tb. This just confuses me as particularly when I need to sell them, should I just sell them as crs/CBS or a mischling?

Sorry if question is silly or has been answered numerous times :|

Thanks :)

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Hey Sez, we don't believe in silly questions, as it can be confusing.

If you cross a TB with F6 Mischling, any TB looking bubs will be TBM, and the CRS/CBS looking ones would be F7 Mischling.

The F number increases with each generation crossed to a TB.

Does that make sense?

Congrats on getting into TBs, they are awesome! Keep us posted on the outcome!

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Offspring from F6xF6 -

 

If they look like KK, WR, Panda, BB or RR then they will be TBMM (Taiwan Bee from Mischling x Mischling).

 

If they look like CRS/CBS then they are classified as F1 Mischlings, back to the start. As neither parent was a direct TB, the TB gene has been reduced by this cross.

 

Hope I got that right?

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Ah excellent, thanks guys. I'm not sure why I asked the first question as I already knew that.. It was the latter question I meant to ask :|

I shall blame "baby brain" for that one :) haha

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Don't hesitate to ask any question. :D

 

It may sound like a simple question, but there may be other members who want to know the answer but are too shy to ask. Also, it may not have been asked before.

 

Every question raised helps us all out by making us think and reminding us of things we may overlook.

 

End of the day, there are no silly questions!!

 

Having baby brain means congrats are in order too!! :thumbsu: Hope you get some sleep soon!!

Edited by newbreed
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  • 4 months later...

This may be a silly question.

If the TB offsprings from TB x Mischling are call TBMs, and the TB offsprings from Mischling x Mischling are call TBMMs. what do you call theTB offsprings from TB x TBM or TB x TBMM? What about TB offsprings from TBM x TBM or TBMM x TBMM etc?

This is confusing. How would you ever know if a TB is pure or mixed with TBM/TBMM?

Sorry for my newbie question.

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Hi JC12.

 

I guess you would only ever know the true purity of TB by their offspring. The more diluted the TB gene is, the less TB type offspring you will get per drop, theoretically.

 

I only trust a TB to be pure based on the history of the seller.

 

I always ask for information on shrimps genetic history prior to purchase, but it depends what you are getting them for. If you just want to breed them and get a mixed bag of babies, it doesn't matter, but if you are on a particular breeding project it's best to know what genetics you are adding to the mix. IMHO.   :jig:

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Thanks Newbreed.

I am keen to breed TBs but find them difficult to source in QLD so I bought a Panda, KK and couple of mischlings (all juvies) from Sydney few weeks ago. They are currently with 15 CRSs which I just started about two months back in a 40L tank, and I just spotted my first two berried CRSs last weekend. Super excited. Hence my questions re: mischlings. I am trying to grow my colony. :-) I have another 90L and a 4x2x2 tank ready for them should their population miraculously grow exponentially. Fingers crossed. :-)

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