Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Neo-shrimp

2014 Shrimp Price Guide

Recommended Posts

BristledOne

Seeing mention of genetics and phenotypes etc reminds me of something I read once, "Cubing"

-edit- Spent so long typing this and I realize it's in a way off topic so I'm going to make a thread to flesh out my thoughts. I'd really appreciate peoples opinions on it though once the topics up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
viridisornatus

Not to derail the conversation but have people actually had mischlings from TBMxTBM or is this a hypothetical example? That would be very interesting genetically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CNgo2006
Not to derail the conversation but have people actually had mischlings from TBMxTBM or is this a hypothetical example? That would be very interesting genetically.

TBM meaning TBMischling x TBMischling, I assume then most definitely. TB x TB is the rarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
clipper

Price reflects demand, nothing more. No 'good' breeder sells his best stock so it can't exactly be surprising that everyone wants a piece of the apple by offering cheaper alternatives to people who want to have a good. I only have cherry shrimp and the ride from reds to yellows to browns, then blacks and now blue and green has been exciting. One only has to stop and wonder though, that these colours have only recently been available, so how these colours were created nobody can really confirm or deny inbreeding or colour crossing. You can only buy what you see in a photo, nothing more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
michael

I have to disagree with you there. We are not saying, that people are being ripped of due to lack of quality. We are saying they are being deceived buy the seller to what they are getting. When u buy a shrimp where the. Seller Claim it to be a Pb bb and you pay for a bb then realise in 12 months when it finally breeds that there are mostly mishling babies then you will feel jipped. There is a market for tbm however it needs to be clearly stated that's what they are not hidden. If this means there are 2 different prices in our price list all the better then it's all transparent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
neosin

I've noticed a lot of deceptive conduct recently with taiwan bees

Generally if you see an ad for sale without any mention of "PURE" in the description, it's pretty safe to assume the seller is selling TBMs

Most sellers have adopted the "If you don't ask then i'm not lying" approach to justify their actions!

We should change the SKF rules so that all sellers claiming PURE should be required to state whos PURE line they are from and when they started breeding them :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlueBolts

One of the primary reason's why the TBM & TBMM was discussed & created was to ensure new hobbyist to the shrimp world are aware of the difference genetically, with the $ reflecting their purity. I would assume & hope that hobbyist selling TB's, would mention their purity *i.e. TB, TBM or TBMM, so that newbies enquire the difference, and the knowledge spreads etc..

When I see a "TB" FS, I would assume it's a pure TB, ie. TBxTB of at least 2+ generations of breeding true, and not just F2, as this would still throw out mishlings etc….

So..

TB x Mish = TBM

TB x TBM = say 50% TB(1), 50% Mishling

TB x TB(1) = 75% TB(2), 25% Mishling

TB x TB (2) = 100% TB(3) …….This is F1

TB x TB (3) = 100% TB(4) …….This is F2

TB x TB (4) = 100% TB(5) …….This is F3

…the equation gets more complicated if a TBM, TBMM or even a mishling is introduced between the above sequence.

As most of the comments have mentioned, it's back to trusting the breeder, as the above "family tree" can be manipulated.

Thoughts ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ace027

If a breeder sells Mischlings and pure TB at the same time, beware... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Neo-shrimp

Could we please can get an update on prices for the different varieties of shrimps ( like in the for sales sticky )...This thread somehow got side tracked :Scratch-Head:

Thanks guys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KiwiBigD

Agreed, I would say though there are not many pure TBs being sold.

And for those that ask, yes I have had TBMs from mischlings x mischlings, they go into my daughters tank and the girl goes into one of two grow out tanks for projects or the office tank for display.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bozzy

slightly OT but can someone please point me to the idiots guide to what your all talking about (tb,tbm etc). im only new to the hobby with red/rellow cherries at the moment but would like to move to others later on but getting caught up on whats what seems to be confusing me a little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlueBolts
slightly OT but can someone please point me to the idiots guide to what your all talking about (tb' date='tbm etc). im only new to the hobby with red/rellow cherries at the moment but would like to move to others later on but getting caught up on whats what seems to be confusing me a little.[/quote']

Try this thread, I'm sure there's other thread discussing this on SKF too...

http://www.shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/showthread.php/783-Minchlings/page2?highlight=TBMM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zuuutoootuuu

I've bought TBMs advertised as pure TBs in the past, I was able to isolate the true pure TB shrimp from the TBM shrimp, it was a slow process and a learning curve. However it was an excuse to have multiple tanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke
slightly OT but can someone please point me to the idiots guide to what your all talking about (tb' date='tbm etc). im only new to the hobby with red/rellow cherries at the moment but would like to move to others later on but getting caught up on whats what seems to be confusing me a little.[/quote']

Bluebolts has shown a page to explain what they are but do you mean you would like an explanation of the abbreviations we use as in TB is Taiwan Bee , TBM is Taiwan Bee Mischling meaning it doesn't come from 2 Taiwan Bees? If you want the meaning of abbreviations just let us know and it can be written out clearly for you to understand -we all started out not knowing so don't be afraid to ask. The water parameter abbreviations can be confusing too but I think they are covered in another thread:encouragement:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bozzy
Bluebolts has shown a page to explain what they are but do you mean you would like an explanation of the abbreviations we use as in TB is Taiwan Bee ' date=' TBM is Taiwan Bee Mischling meaning it doesn't come from 2 Taiwan Bees? If you want the meaning of abbreviations just let us know and it can be written out clearly for you to understand -we all started out not knowing so don't be afraid to ask. The water parameter abbreviations can be confusing too but I think they are covered in another thread:encouragement:[/quote']

is there a page of abbreviations/definitions somewhere already? (only just paid for (since my question) premium access and havent read everything in there yet)

im reasonibly familiar with the water parameter stuff with the exception of TDS (i know what it is but havent had a need to measure it before)

thanks guys

edit: just saw the thread Bluebolt posted so ill go read that now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke

These are a few and the link to the glossary is at the bottom

CRS= crystal red shrimp

CBS= crystal black shrimp

Crystal grades= C,B,A,S,SS,SSS (lowest to highest)

PRL= pure red line

PBL= pure black line

GB= golden bee

SW= snow white

RW= red wine

KK= king kong

BB= blue bolt

TB= taibee

RCS= red cherry shrimp

YCS= yellow cherry shrimp

BCS= blue cherry shrimp

CCS= chocolate cherry shrimp

RO= reverse osmosis

DIY= do it your self

SKF= shrimp keepers forum

http://www.shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/content.php/166-SKF-Glossary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Squiggle

Just to add to Ineke's list of abbreviations. :encouragement:

RR = Ruby Red

TB = Taiwan Bee - Genotype(pure TB genetics)

Tibee = Tiger x Bee shrimp(CRS/CBS)

Mischling = Taiwan Bee x CRS/CBS

TBM = Phenotype Taiwan Bee from Taiwan Bee x Mischling (Looks like a Taiwan Bee but impure genes)

TBMM = Phenotype Taiwan Bee from Mischling x Mischling (Looks like a Taiwan Bee but impure genes)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  



  • Must Read SKF Articles

  • Register today, ask questions and share your shrimp and fish tank experiences with us!

    Join Our Community!

  • Posts

    • sdlTBfanUK
      Great to hear everything is going nicely and you feel ready to start transferring more to the new tank. You were always going to have the PH difference as you are using soil but my cherry shrimp I have in both tanks thrive ok, it just means that you should drip acclimate them probably most of the day to be on the safe side and it is easy enough with the dripper to just leave it going all day. I am not advocating doing this, but as I was putting the cull shrimps into the new betta tank which had a low PH due to new substrate I just dumped them straight in and they were fine and I didn't see a dead one ever (I saw 10 the other day which is about the number I DUMPED in there) - they are much hardier/adaptable than the bee shrimps. I would do as you want/propose and try 10 for the first transfer! I really don't think you will have a problem with the PH difference but would do a long acclimatising to be safe. I have the same floating weed and mine grows really quickly but it is much easier to keep that under control than duckweed as when you get too many big ones you just remove a few. Incidentally when I do my weekly maintenance I trim off the longer bits of root to about 2 inches and it doesn't seem to harm them! You should probably keep a close eye on the tanks this week as we are supposed to be over 30 degrees most of the week. The smaller tank will be the one most at risk of excessive heat? I wish my reset shrimp tank was as lush and green as your new one - good job! I have added 17 shrimps so far and saw 8 yesterday? Simon
    • CurleyJones321
      Right so i've left the tanks and inhabitants for well this long simply because i dont want things to die off if i can help it and people have said leave it a month after establishing a tank before adding shrimp. Other than doing normal maintenance and transferring the 2 liters of old water from the small tank to the large each time and the large tank then getting an extra 2 liters of mineralised new water. Friday i sorted out all the tank decor in both tanks and adjusted the tank TDS to within 5TDS of each other. mainly because i needed to cull the flaoting plants which in the large tank the frogbit has taken over and in the small tank the water lettuce had almost taken over. the Duckweed has all but died out in both tanks not that i have done anything to aid it. my tanks now look like the attached. i then took readings they are as follows:-

      Small tank
      TDS - 232
      Temp - 23C
      PH - 7
      NH4 - Unreadable
      N03 - 1PPM
      N02 - 0.05PPM
      P04 - 2PPM
      dKH - 2
      dGH - 6

      Large Tank
      TDS - 237
      Temp - 24C
      PH - 5.5
      NH4 - Unreadable
      N03 - Unreadable
      N02 - Unreadable
      P04 - 1PPM
      dKH - 1
      dGH - 5

      So the Phosphate is up but thats because i was massively invasive in the tanks and churned up the fertaliser i have in the tank substrate. The PH is also what i would consider to be completely off

      also as a side note its worth mentioning that stressing plays out seems to stimulate them to give birth, i now have an extra at least 3 fry appear in the tank just after the works when the mothers had seemed to have stopped giving birth.

      i also got a new fish the in other breed of platy because the fish keeper at my LFS told me they could interbreed and it might make what im doing with the fish go faster, i got him today and named him Rodney and am about to add him to the Large Tank with Tyrone  before taking Tyrone out and putting more females in the tank with Rodney to let nature take its course. the Fish keeper did tell me to drip acclimate him however as the PH shock may be too much so that's what I'm currently doing and he's on his 2nd dip.

      that does make me wonder however can i now add shrimp to the tank or is the PH going to be a massive problem. i estimate i have between 60 and 100 shrimp in the small tank and want to transfer over say 10?
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Thanks for replying. I know what you mean about breeding, I started off with about 10 and was soon (couple of months) over 100, and  I am sure that would have kept going up if the tank could  have supported more??? I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work with bee shrimps if it is working so well for your cherry shrimp. Obviously the parameters are different but if you are managing to keep the cherry tanks stable I don't see why the bee would be any different, although they are a lot harder to keep! Worth a try though unless someone says otherwise? I shall certainly follow this with some interest. Simon 
    • Myola
      Hi Simon, NO, I wasn't using a buffering substrate previously in the neo tanks, it was just some white gravel that I had laying around. It had originally been in a fish tank some years ago, so it wasn't new when I put it into the neo tank. It started to break down just because of age, and my GH, and subsequently TDS, were rising out of control. JayC talked me through a rebuild with a bare floor. It has worked so well that when I set up more neo tanks I just made them bare as well. Like I said, I wouldn't go back. The little buggers are breeding like crazy, I have a very high baby survival rate and almost no deaths. Under my particular water conditions, it works great ... for neo caridinas. Now I want to do the same with caridinas, but not sure if there's more to a buffering substrate that I don't know about. Hopefully someone out there will be able to help me (and you) with the answers :)  
    • sdlTBfanUK
      A very good question and one I will follow with much interest as I had a similar question a year ago in that would I need to replace the substrate when it stopped buffering with my Taiwan bee tank if all the water I use has the right parameters. Unfortunately I don't know the answer in my case as my heater stuck on and killed all my shrimps off so I am starting again, though I still wonder about the same issue, though I should have at least a year before the new substrate stops buffering.  A lot of big breeding companies that have hundreds or thousands of shrimp (cherry and bee) in each tank (big tanks admittedly) use bare tanks (for obvious conveniences) so I am guessing it will be ok! Hopefully someone who has done it may get back to this thread, but otherwise I would give it a go with a few, especially if you have a spare small tank etc and see how it goes? If you used buffering substrate before but were using RO mineralised water of ideal PH did you have a problem once the substrate lost its buffering ability? I am/was hoping that the substrate buffering wasn't really needed if the water going into the tank is always around PH 5 or 6?  Simon
×