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Shrimp Diseases and Diagnosis

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kthien

Hi guys, 

Have been having issues with my yellow neocaridina tank this past month, from a berried female death, general inactivity in the past 2 days, to this discolouration in the body (yellow to translucency). I am afraid the colony will collapse soon if I leave as is.

Parameters:

Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates ~5-10

KH: 3 GH: 7

TDS: ~205

Temperature: 23-24

What would you guys diagnose this as? Differential being muscular necrosis?

Help much appreciated, thank you!

 

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sdlTBfanUK

The shrimp in the photo looks more like an orange rili, or was it all one colour and that is your concern?

Have you removed the shrimp for now?

What is the PH of the tank water it was kept in? The other parameters look good!

Do you have some sorrt of filter that aerates the water in the shrimp tank?

Are you feeding your shrimps?

Simon

ps How is/did the egg hatching go??

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kthien

Hi Simon!

It was in fact all one colour, and it's mid-section changed to clear. In general, shrimp activity has diminished significantly with many hiding, lethargic, refusing to eat. It is really noticeable compared to my other tanks and I sense death is imminent..

I have not been able to remove it as I unfortunately don't have another cycled tank for quarantine. It is only in the breeder box for observation currently.

My apologies I forgot to post pH, it is 7.4. 

There is a HOB filter which should provide some aeration, as well as the egg tumblers with air stones.  

I was previously feeding hikari crab cuisine every two days but have since switched to soybean husks since yesterday; so I can leave them in, in case they get hungry. I've noticed none of the shrimp will come to eat and was afraid of fouling/ammonia spiking. Only snails are eating it. I've also made some shrimp kandy feast (awesome recipe jayc) and other tanks will maul it except this one.

The eggs have eyes now! Which coincide with other berried females' eggs, so hopefully they all hatch close to each other 🙂

A friend suggested dosing h2o2 at 0.3ml/L daily, for 1 week. Would you condone this? 

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sdlTBfanUK

You could just quarantine the shrimp in a bucket or other plastic container, if you don't have a seperate tank and if you are going to try H202 that is definitely a better/safer place to do that as just the one shrimp will be at risk instead of all the shrimp and the bacteria etc. I haven't tried H202 treatment so can't advise you on that! I personally wouldn't risk trying that treatment in a main tank!

I hope the eggs do hatch ok, it sounds like that is doing well.

Otherwise it is just a case of trying to identify what may have caused the problem? Is the tank on its own or with the other shrimp tanks? Is it likely that someone used an aerosol near the tank and poisoning the water, shrimps are super sensitive? Did you maybe have something on your hands when you did some maintenance of this tank?

It may be worth doing a 50% waterchange with dripping the new water into the tank. I would do that and quarantine the sick shrimp in a bucket/container as a start.

Simon

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kthien

It's on its own. Those are some good points regarding aerosols, dirty hands etc. as I can't seem to pinpoint any issues with water parameters or obvious pathology/diagnoses. Upon reflection, it's the only tank with an open top, whilst all the other tanks have their own lids. Certainly something to think about..

I also found this red worm in my filter's mechanical filtration, is it harmful at all? 

685e4fa6-d8bf-4764-8528-177565c248d6.thumb.jpg.4210cc9b5cfb1189493631f1a21e2ffd.jpg

Frustrated, I commenced the h202 treatment, but stopped the filter for about an hour. There hasn't been any abnormal activity yet, but will be watching closely over the following days. 

Edited by kthien
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sdlTBfanUK

I realise how frustrating it can be when you can't pinpoint what has/is going wrong!

The only red worm I know of is the bloodworm and they are harmless to shrimps, but if you aren't sure what it is then I would discard it to be safe? I don't know where they come from, any bucket left outside seems to get some in over time here??

Fingers crossed the H2O2 treatment does the job!

Simon

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behodahlia

Hi! I'm new to shrimp keeping, and today I lost two shrimp within a few hours of each other. I went over and the yellow one was on her back, legs kicking wildly, until she died (maybe a half hour later?), and a few hours later the black one did the same thing. Do they look sick? They were only introduced to the tank 3 days ago. We have two other shrimp in the tank (including a pregnant female), and I'm really worried about something happening to them. Yesterday they seemed completely fine: swimming around, sitting on the plants, eating fine.

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Water parameters:

pH: 6.8

Ammonia: 0 ppm

Nitrite: 0 ppm

Nitrate: 5.0 ppm

Thank you for any advice you can give!

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jayc

The most common death is due to water hardness, causing the shrimps problems with moulting.

And this might be the case with these shrimp. For that you will need to test the water's GH and  TDS.

 

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behodahlia

Oh, I didn't think to test that! Thank you, I'll pick up the stuff tomorrow.

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sdlTBfanUK

Did you drip acclimate them to the water over several hours, most newbies don't (me included when I started) and that causes deaths in the first week usually! When changing water in the tank in routine maintenance it is also best to drip the new water in if it isn't a huge aquarium!

I can't see anything obviously wrong in the photo. If you can, also get a KH tester as well as the TDS and GH mentioned by JayC.

I am assuming they are neocaridina (cherry) shrimp. There is this extremely good youtube video I recommend watching;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pO6iJPbmdk

Simon

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behodahlia

I did not drip acclimate them; that was probably at least part of it, huh? Good to know about dripping in the water during maintenance as well! Unfortunately, over the night, the remaining two shrimp died as well 😞 It's very disappointing, but I've learned a lot and I know a lot of what to change for the future batch. They are neocaridina, and that video was very helpful, thank you!! I've watched shrimp keeping videos before, but that was the most thorough and easy to understand, so I appreciate it 🙂 I will definitely also get KH/TDS/GH testers in addition to the pH/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate I already have.

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behodahlia

Okay, an update: my fiancee pointed out that all of the dead shrimp have bright pink/orange internal organs, which they did not have previously. After a brief google search, it could potentially be some sort of disease? If so, do I need to dump the entire tank before starting a fresh cycle? It's a planted tank so it'd be a bit more of a pain to drain I would think. Now I'm thinking, if it isn't the drip acclimation problem or the water hardness (so many potential issues), the new shrimp may have been infected and passed it on to the older shrimp.

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Edited by behodahlia
Got better pictures
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jayc
2 hours ago, behodahlia said:

it could potentially be some sort of disease?

Not necessarily a cause of disease.

When shrimp die, they loose the pigment under the shell turning them an orange like when you see when you cook prawns to eat. 

The colour you see on shrimp is under the shell (notice when they moult, they don't loose colour), and when this colour pigment is destroyed, they turn orange.

What you are seeing is normal for a dead shrimp. But if you see a live shrimp with pale orange internals, than that could be an internal infection caused by disease.

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behodahlia

Oh I see! That makes sense. Thank you so much for your help 🙂

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jayc
10 hours ago, behodahlia said:

Thank you so much for your help 🙂

No problem, but that doesn't explain your shrimp deaths. Those addition water parameters we asked for will help us narrow it down.

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behodahlia

I couldn't find a TDS tester, but I was able to find something to test GH and KH. The GH was 5 degrees, and the KH was 3 degrees.

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jayc
2 hours ago, behodahlia said:

I couldn't find a TDS tester,

Search for "TDS meter" on either Ebay or Amazon.

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Crabby
3 hours ago, behodahlia said:

I couldn't find a TDS tester, but I was able to find something to test GH and KH. The GH was 5 degrees, and the KH was 3 degrees.

Those are suitable parameters for neos. However, if you can find a TDS meter on ebay or amazon, that could be very useful. TDS means total dissolved solids, and it is a measured in parts-per-million (ppm). GH and KH will contribute to that, and can also be measured in ppm. However, if your TDS is unreasonably high, it means there is something in your water that you can't see, and gives you an area of issue to investigate. I'm sorry to hear you lost your shrimp, and especially the berried girl. It is possible to save the eggs if you can get them in under 24 hours of her death. Marks Shrimp Tanks has a video on it.
Good luck with the next batch.

Edited by Crabby
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JLG

I guess that my question would be regarding  Vorticella and what it looks like when it spreads throughout the tank.. I am familiar with the type of fungal bloom that is experienced after adding things like driftwood. I recently encountered white growth on my glass and substrate that almost looked crystalline from a distance but upon closer inspection had webs radiating from its core. I have posted pictures on several differing forums now & cannot seem to come up with an answer as to what it is, if its detrimental to my shrimps well being nor how to get rid of it..  please note that in the images it looks as though there are cotton like threads that are sprawling out into the water, but in reality they are all flat against the glass
My Set Up is a 15 Gal Fluval Flex with ten Cardinal Tetras, a Betta, 4 Blue Velvet Shrimp (had 32 think betta ate them, He,s getting his own tank soon) and ten Amano shrimp. Gravel vacuumed weekly followed by 1/4 water change.  Integrated back filter (sponge, bio media & 6 Hrs a day of UV light..
Temp 76 -78 
Ammonia 0 ppm 
Nitrites 0 ppm 
Nitrate 5-15 ppm 
Ph 6.8 -7.0 
TDS 330 ish
I have since removed the plants and salt dipped all the shrimp then placed in another tank along with the fish and treated all with Gen cure and EM Erythromycin... Nuked my main tank with 30 Tbls of Aquarium salt, PanACur-C and everything else that I have that wouldn't kill my BB let it run for two days and stirring contents often.  Drained tank bleached all substrate and strained, rinsed all filter media in R/O water. Bleach dipped all the plants and started over again.... I am new to the hobby and have no idea if this was an effective means of dealing with the problem (I know that it was a lot of work) but hopefully it resolved the issue as I have not seen any of this mysterious growth pop up in my tank to date> 
Any assistance in identifying this growth and how to "properly" deal with in the future would greatly be appreciated
  Thank you in advance
      JLG

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Edited by JLG
typos
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behodahlia

Right, sorry, I just meant there wasn't one for sale at the nearby aquarium store. I've ordered one online, just have to wait for it to get here.

Thank you, Crabby 🙂 I wish I'd thought to look up if the eggs were salvageable when it happened. At least I know for next time (I mean, hopefully I don't have this situation again, but if it DOES then now I know). I'm glad the GH/KH are good.

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jayc
2 hours ago, JLG said:

I guess that my question would be regarding  Vorticella and what it looks like when it spreads throughout the tank.

That isn't Vorticella. It is likely a type of fungus.

Too bad you got rid of it, we will never know what it was now 🙂

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sdlTBfanUK
6 hours ago, JLG said:

I guess that my question would be regarding  Vorticella and what it looks like when it spreads throughout the tank.. I am familiar with the type of fungal bloom that is experienced after adding things like driftwood. I recently encountered white growth on my glass and substrate that almost looked crystalline from a distance but upon closer inspection had webs radiating from its core. I have posted pictures on several differing forums now & cannot seem to come up with an answer as to what it is, if its detrimental to my shrimps well being nor how to get rid of it..  please note that in the images it looks as though there are cotton like threads that are sprawling out into the water, but in reality they are all flat against the glass
My Set Up is a 15 Gal Fluval Flex with ten Cardinal Tetras, a Betta, 4 Blue Velvet Shrimp (had 32 think betta ate them, He,s getting his own tank soon) and ten Amano shrimp. Gravel vacuumed weekly followed by 1/4 water change.  Integrated back filter (sponge, bio media & 6 Hrs a day of UV light..
Temp 76 -78 
Ammonia 0 ppm 
Nitrites 0 ppm 
Nitrate 5-15 ppm 
Ph 6.8 -7.0 
TDS 330 ish
I have since removed the plants and salt dipped all the shrimp then placed in another tank along with the fish and treated all with Gen cure and EM Erythromycin... Nuked my main tank with 30 Tbls of Aquarium salt, PanACur-C and everything else that I have that wouldn't kill my BB let it run for two days and stirring contents often.  Drained tank bleached all substrate and strained, rinsed all filter media in R/O water. Bleach dipped all the plants and started over again.... I am new to the hobby and have no idea if this was an effective means of dealing with the problem (I know that it was a lot of work) but hopefully it resolved the issue as I have not seen any of this mysterious growth pop up in my tank to date> 
Any assistance in identifying this growth and how to "properly" deal with in the future would greatly be appreciated
  Thank you in advance
      JLG

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S1000232A.JPG

I haven't seen that type of fugus before, or fungus that grows on glass. Wood etc sometimes grows fungus (as you mentioned) in a newly set up tank and I have had that and it just clears itself given time, as the tank settles and sorts itself out! It ismost likely to be a fungus!

You have been busy, cleaning and treating. All you can really do now is see if it comes back and it will take a while to resettle after such a lot of work. IF it does come bac,k just keep an eye on the inhabitants, I know the fuhgus I had was harmless but I removed the wood as I didn't like looking at the fungus mainly and the second time wasn't as bad so I left it and it just vanished in time as the tank settled down! Even if yours comes back I would just leave it, unless you see deaths of inhabitants of coarse!

Sorry to hear your Betta ate your shrimps, they can be a bad mix. I have had both experiences, the first Betta ate the shrimps, but my latest Betta doesn't show any interest to even the small shrimps, though these shrimps are 'reverted to wild' type so not all that easy to see so maybe he doesn't think they look tasty? There may also be a risk with the cardinal tetras and very young shrimps but you have a densely planted tank so that is good. I had neons with shrimps and currently have ember tetras with shrimps, but they are smaller than cardinals? I wouldn't be too concerned about this, just be aware that you may get less baby shrimps that survive to adulthood, but the flip side to that is you shouldn't get over-run with shrimp?

If the betta is getting another tank I would transfer some of the Amano shrimps into his tank with him. They will out compete the neocaridina for food so you don't want too many in with the smaller shrimp, and anyway it will make the betta tank more interesting to have them a well as the betta and they will help keep his tank cleaner.

Lovely tank by the way.

Simon

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JLG

Simon 
   You kind of nailed my plan on the head, I will be moving 6 of the Amanos with the betta and then do Cardinal tetras and most likely Harlequin Rasbora's. This will be a Fluval spec 16 gallon. Still need sort out the filtration return so the the current is to the Bettas liking 
Im not too worried about mixing the Cardinal Tetras and Betta as they seem to keep him in check, but he's not gonna get to eat more of my poor little shrimp...

My shrimp tank (15 gallon Fluval flex) will still have 10 Neon Tetras, 4 Guppies and 4 Amano and then I will stock with 30 blue Dream shrimp or do 10 / 20 if I can find another color that they will not cross breed with (not up on all of that yet)  I will add shrimp hides (already did b4 but the betta got his head stuck in one so I had to carefully break it off of him) and plenty of Java Moss and plant cover. I would really prefer not to have the guppies with the shrimp but already know that they cannot go with the Betta (whole different story)
  Thanks for the input Simon its appreciated and if you are aware of any other little shrimps that I can mix with Blue Dreams and will not cross breed and also fall under caretaking "easy" please let me know and Thanks again 

I got the Amanos when the driftwood spread fungus through out the tank they had it cleaned up in no time!! (So ya know what you mean about the white cotton like fungus_Yucky Muck) 
This (what ever it was) was different and all of the shrimp became very reclusive. After they didn't respond to feeding for a day and I hadn't seen shrimp out and about for 48Hrs. Felt I had no choice but to Nuke the tank. 
 Thx again Simon & JayC

 

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sdlTBfanUK

The easiest and safest choice of shrimp with the dlue dream would be Tangerine Tiger (assumig you can get hold of some), they like similar water and are as easy to keep as neocaridina but the two don't interbreed and are  usually fairly reasonable in price! The contrasting colour will also make it interesting to look at. I've not tried tiger shrimp yet myself but with all the disruption here because of the virus its not a very good time to get shrimps through the post so I will hold off for now!

As you say/know guppies are very curious fish and will get baby shrimps so you will want a densely planted tank with lots of hiding places if any of the baby shrimp are to survive. As you also say, it is a shame the guppies can't go in with the Betta as that would solve the shrimp problem, but guppies and Betta don't go well together - there is always some problem stopping you from getting everything as you would like in this hobby?

If you can resist the temptation to get the guppies for a while it may be better so the tank can settle down and your shrimp can multiply and you get enough of a good size shrimp to give them a chance? There are always many problems that can arise with new tanks and new livestock so it would also make sense from that point not to do/add too much early on as well? If you plan to get the shrimp shipped then they usually send fairly small and young shrimps that way so bear that in mind! Also, of course, the shrimp will naturally hide a lot if they feel unsafe with too many preditors in the aquarium?

Now the aquariums. I can't find a fluval spec, but the fluval flex I know and had a similar setup years ago with the equipment hidden in the back. It is very clean and tidy looking, however there are a few problems that can arise with small shrimp. There are slots top and bottom where the water is drawn in to the back, but these slots aren't shrimp safe, shrimp can get through, or even get drawn through when young. You will need to get some sponge to put behind these slots to make it shrimp safe, but not too fine as that will reduce the amount of water circulating through the back section. This is only important/needed with small shrimps like neocaridina, the amanos are way to big to need to do this? This extra sponge needs to be removable for squeezing during regular maintenance as it will otherwise get clogged/blocked. You will need to check the water level in the back regularly as it can drop dramarically, which could be a problem if the heater is in the back!

I don't know the setup of the 'spec' aquarium as a search only showed small 10L tanks but they had the same type of filtration system as the flex.

The flow for the betta may be able to be adjusted on the pump, mine was (though it didn't have a betta in it, just shrimps). You should be able to reduce the water disturbance also by pointing the outlets upwards and to the sides and that may be enough (hopefully). If these 2 aren't sufficient then you can cut a piece of sponge (again, not fine sponge) to cover the outlet (you can remove the standard flat end piece to make that easier). My betta tank has a spray bar and I have a sponge sleeve on that. Again though, keep a close eye on the water level in the back section though, mine dropped to half way at times (as the sponge gets clogged) even though the main tank level never dropped at all!

Simon 

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Crabby

I used to keep guppies, blue dreams and tangerine tigers in a tank together. Guppies are gone now - I would get loads and loads of berried girls but never any shrimplets surviving! I would recommend against any fish with shrimp unless it is a catfish, or a very small fish like an endler, or microrasbora. My personal opinion though - in the end it's your tank, and you want to enjoy it. I will say that once I removed the fish, my shrimp became extremely active!!! It was so fascinating to watch them constantly on the move. I have since moved a pair of endlers in, and the shrimp activity has died down slightly, but it is so much better than a breeding group of guppies.
Water params work well for TTS and Blue Dreams. Just gotta have a handle on it. 

You might want to be careful on substrate though - TTS pop on black, but blue dreams are so hard to see. Contrary to that, blue dreams pop on white. I think white might work for TTS too, but plants look a bit yech on white. My favourite colour of substrate I've seen has been a light river sand - works not amazingly, but very well with all of them. A happy medium.

The blue dreams and TTS together do look fantastic though. Really beautiful shrimp.

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  • Posts

    • jayc
      A 5gal into a 10gal is double the change in water.  You should drip acclimate. Even more so if it was a move to a 15 gal.   Simon makes some good points with temp differences.
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Good to see you back, I assume all is doing well! As you are transferring everything from one tank to another, and using a neutral substrate (gravel) you can probably do it in one go. If you are getting a new filter as it is a larger tank then I would float the sponge from the new filter in the 5L tank for a week or two to get some bacteria on to it, but it looks like you will be transferring your existing filter which can just be transferred as it is. If you are using some sort of active soil substrate you will need to run that in to avoid any ammonia spikes or other build up of nutrients etc before that is put into the new setup, but you say gravel so this is probably not relevant. I assume you will catch the shrimp and put them somewhere safe whilst you do all the tank work so I would drip acclimate them for a couple of hours to the new water to be safest, once you have completely set up and filled the new tank! If they are neocaridina shrimps you are transferring and the water parameters are very close you would probably be able to miss the drip acclimating, but I would play it safe and drip acclimate though! You will also need to ensure the water temperature is matched when you go to put the shrimp in the tank as the shrimp may have been in water that has cooled over the time they were put to one side. How are the tanks doing, and did the small micro crabs work out? Simon 
    • Ludwiggg17
      Hello everyone, lately I've been thinking of upgrading a tank of mine from a 5 gal into either a 10 or 15 one. So I plan to move all the stuff and shrimp from the 5 gal into the new one. I'll use the same gravel and the same water for the new tank and the filter and plants will come from the 5 gal. My question is, do I still need to cycle it separately with a new seeded filter or is the whole using a mature filter okay? Also is skipping drip acclimation when the water params are almost identical acceptable?
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Sorry to hear you have lost half the remaining shrimps. At least you have another taiwan bee tank which is doing fine. Be careful not to take anything (including shrimp) from the bad tank and put it in the good tank! It could be an infection as LukeBeveridge above, maybe some shrimp were sick when you got them. Time to start thinking/preparing to start that tank again! If you are using something different in the tank that you aren't using in any other tank then use what has worked well with the other tanks. At least there is no rush so you can do it at your leisure, and once it is up and running you should have shrimplets you can transfer from your other tank! There is a device out there to prevent heaters overheating by cutting the power to the heater when it gets too hot, it probably would be worth getting one of those, at least for the taiwan bee tank(s).  The parameters look fine. The nitrate figue may indicate the tank isn't cycled properly, but I have a tank that has nitrate 25 permanenetly for 5+ years with no problems. You could test the nitrates in the other taiwan bee tank and see what they are out of curiosity, but as I assume you will be re-setting up the bad tank it probably may be better to just get ready to do that. I feel your disappointment have a tank that is exactly the same and I have (temporarily) given up on that (as I don't know what the problem is) and just have fish in it for now, but I would have to start again if I want to start with taiwan bee shrimp again...... Simon  
    • sdlTBfanUK
      That is a beautiful shrimp! Mixing different colours as you are will mean you will get offspring reverting to wild (brown or clear usually) quite quickly. Simon
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