Jump to content

Dean's (Ec) vs BlueBolts (TDS)


BlueBolts

Recommended Posts

Dean's uses Ec & I use TDS to calculate the purity of our water. There's a mix of information and reference to water quality using Ec & TDS, and I appreciate many hobbyist maybe confused to which "pen" to buy, or if they've already bought a TDS pen, regret the fact as reference is made to Ec ....

Please take note of the bold words/sentences ....

Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) is the best measurement of the nutrient concentration of a hydroponic solution. To estimate TDS, one can use a meter that measures the Electric Conductivity (EC) of a solution, and convert the number to TDS in parts per million (ppm). Many meters will do this conversion.

Total dissolved solids (TDS) is typically expressed in parts per million (ppm).

Electrical Conductivity (EC) is expressed in siemens per centimeter (s/cm) or milliseimens per centimeter(ms/cm).

For convenience, EC measurements often are converted to TDS units (ppm) by the meter.

The meter cannot directly measure TDS as described above, and instead uses a linear conversion factor to calculate it.

The meter uses an approximate conversion factor, because the exact composition of the mix is not known. Conversion factors range from .50 to .72, *depending on the meter manufacturer, which approximates a TDS calculation from the meter’s measurement of EC.

* All ppm pens actually measure the value based on EC and then convert the EC value to display the ppm value, having different conversion factors between differing manufacturers is why we have this problem communicating nutrient measurements between one another.

The issue is that different ppm pen manufacturers use different conversion factors to calculate the ppm they display. All ppm (TDS, Total Dissolved Solids) pens actually measure in EC or CF and run a conversion program to display the reading in ppm's.

There are three conversion factors which various manufacturers use for displaying ppm's...

USA 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 500 ppm

European 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 640 ppm

Australian 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 700 ppm

For example,

Hanna, Milwaukee 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 500 ppm

Eutech 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 640 ppm

Truncheon 1 ms/cm (EC 1.0 or CF 10) = 700 ppm

When reporting your PPM in a thread, please give the conversion factor your meter uses. For example: 550 PPM @0.7 or give the reading in EC, which should be the same meter to meter.

SUMMARY

Although TDS also measure organics etc.... all TDS pens are manufactured to calculate the Ec, and uses a mathematical formula (factor of 0.5, 0.64 or 0.7) to convert the reading to TDS. So all we need to know is the pen's conversion factor. i.e. I have two pens, the 1st calculates Ec/TDS and uses a conversion factor of 0.5 (125 ppm = 250 ms), the 2nd calculates TDS ONLY and as it's manufactured in Europe, uses a coversion of 0.64 (160 ppm = 250 ms).

In conclusion, there's no difference whatsoever if you have a TDS or Ec pen......just need to find the right conversion factor, and apply it.

:D

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yet another informative post by the BB...I have often wondered about this and went and bought both pens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good write up bb! I think it's always good to have both pen so that you can cross check especially when you keeping expensive shrimp!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, but plagerism accounts for 50% of the article ..... my logic and understanding is good, BUT "mi englis, an discliption of werds, knot vary goed. LOL

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awesome write up as usual BB, I think we might have another sticky :encouragement:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks' date=' but plagerism accounts for 50% of the article ..... my logic and understanding is good, BUT "mi englis, an discliption of werds, knot vary goed. LOL[/quote']

Takes you back to the days of school essays and assignments...Ah the good old days where you could copy from a book and not get busted because there was no internet back then...But then there would be no SKF so POO to that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Takes you back to the days of school essays and assignments...Ah the good old days where you could copy from a book and not get busted because there was no internet back then...But then there would be no SKF so POO to that!

+1 Agree, well said dude :victorious:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • HOF Member

It's a great post and explains it well however my pen is made in china and I don't know which type it belongs to hubby thinks its an American one made in china. It is a TDS -02 any idea which I should follow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a great post and explains it well however my pen is made in china and I don't know which type it belongs to hubby thinks its an American one made in china. It is a TDS -02 any idea which I should follow.

Got a pic ? Perhaps write an email to the company that you bought it from, or compare it with someone who has a Ec pen or a person with a TDS pen who knows their conversion.... It'll either by 0.5 or 0.64.... Depends which market it is made for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • HOF Member

Pretty sure it's for America the pictures don't tell much have looked it up on google only a cheap one. I'm getting an EC pen but that's a cheap one too but thought I could take a reading from each and work it back from that - or at least Alan will:encouragement:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

great write up Mr BB, and ill be the first to admit i DID NOT KNOW THAT :)

glad it is all clear and easy to understand now for everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NOw I am understand what is EC and how's it work :)). Thanks BB.

BUt how can we find right conversion factor?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Check with the seller, or determine which market the pen is made for, or compare it with a Ec pen......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no word on my pen. Only TDS, on/off and hold ;)). BUt I will ask the seller. This is a good article for a newb like me :victorious:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

u answered all my questions before i even asked. seek and u will find... at SKF!! :)

good on ya BB!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Dean's (Ec) vs BlueBolts (TDS)

I'm using this pen, anyone know the conversion factor it would use?

post-1452-139909851333_thumb.jpg

It says 100 in the small writing on the LCD and 06 as the reading.

post-23-139909850151_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

600 EC is a little high if that's what it is reading. What's in your tank?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow 600 is a little high, around 200-300 is probably a bit better, depending on the shrimp you're keeping :encouragement:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

600 EC is a little high if that's what it is reading. What's in your tank?

I'm thinking the calibration is off somehow. Ill check some ro water this afternoon and compare. What should straight ro read?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Should be close to 0. Depends on if you need to replace some of the R/O unit bits.

I just tested the water I use TDS 2 and EC 5 micro siemens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

my Gh has been around 8-9 it's slowly crept up over the last few months, so in response to that i have been taking out 2 litres (from a 200ish litre tank) every few days and Drip replacing with RO. just checked EC and it's now at 5. i used to have a TDS pen but it went on the fritz so this pen was what i replaced it with.

the RO water tested at EC 0

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Join Our Community!

    Register today, ask questions and share your shrimp and fish tank experiences with us!

  • Must Read SKF Articles

  • Posts

    • Subtlefly
      Science fish has the water results 25/11/23 PH 7.4 Ammonia 0.0 Nitrite 0.0 Nitrate 10 ppm Hardness 70 Carb Hardness 3 Thanks all and have a great day
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Those are some great shrimp and the tank look awesome! The tiger shrimp are between neocaridina and caridina when it come to ease and toughness. They should be fine in the neocaridina tank until you are ready to transfer them to their new home. You may need to drip acclimate them when transferring them if the water parameters of the 2 tanks are different and I would just transfer a couple to start just to check as it hasn't been running for long. Also make sure you have finished with the additives/chemicals (especially ammonia) you are using before adding any shrimps, apart from bacter ae which is ok as I use regularly anyway and the tank is set up and running as it will be regularly, light time etc.. Being a small tank anyway you don't want to risk throwing the balance out by adding too many shrimps in one go at the very start. You may want to decide on one or other of the filters as you don't need 2 and are making extra work for yourself, but if you decide to remove 1, leave the sponge in the tank for a few weeks for the bacteria balance not to crash etc. From the way you have set it up the tank probably is cycled but there won't be much for the shrimp to graze on yet (another good reason to just do a couple for now). Be very cautious about using plant fertilizers, I know you don't have soil substrate, but I would try NO ferts from the start as the shrimp waste etc will be a source of fert. If you later find you do need fertilizer then be VERY cautious and use as little as you can get away with, but I suspect you snouldn't need any when you have the tank with enough shrimps in it. Aside from that you don't want the plants to grow quickly anyway in a small aquarium as that just makes a lot more work and disturbance. When dosing bacter ae (or any powder, inc food) I use a wood matchstick or similar, dip that quickly half a cm or cm in the water, then put it into the bacter ae, shake excess off and then swirl the matchstick in the tank, this way you don't get too much in the tank and it gets spread around more, and is just the easiest way all round. I would add 2 or 3 shrimps and if all goes ok for a week then transfer the remainder? Maybe do a 50%+ water change first because of all the stuff you have been using to get everything started? Good luck and i'll keep my fingers crossed!
    • Aqua67
      Does anyone keep tiger Caridina shrimp on inert substrate successfully?   I’m 1 week in to cycling a new 3.5 gallon aquarium for 5-10 super tiger shrimp.  I’m using plantable (small pebble) inert substrate which I sprinkled with Bacter AE when I set it up.  I’ve also mixed some Bacter AE with tank water and added it to the aquarium.  Three tiny ramshorn snails are now in the aquarium. I’m so anxious to add some tigers that right now are being kept with my neocaridina in a tank that is a couple of years old. Despite the tank being so small, I’ve added a separate tiny nano sponge filter and tiny air pump, in addition to the existing HOB filter with a course sponge over the intake, ceramic rings and the filter cartridge (right now with the carbon it came with - I usually slice the filter and shake all of the carbon out in all of my tanks), plus some old dirty filter floss from one of my established aquariums.  I couldn’t fit all of the filter material I took into the little HOB filter, so I do have a piece of dirty filter floss just sitting in the aquarium also. There is already many botanicals, some covered in thick fungus/biofilm, which have been soaking in the water for the full week.  That includes catappa bark and leaf, an oak leaf, casuarina cone, alder cone.  There is a lot of plants, although not the stem/rooted kind.  There is a small bolbitis herteroclita, a could tiny windelov ferns, a rosette sword that stays small, a coconut moss covered arch, a rock covered in moss, and a piece of cholla wood covered in black pearl Bruce which had been sitting in an established tank for several months.  One Thrive fertilizer table is sitting under the sword plant and a small dose of Flourish Excel was added which probably bumped up my TDS some. I’ve added a few drops of household ammonia last week but checked the next day and never had any ammonia reading when I tested.  Now I don’t want to add any more ammonia because the ingredients on the bottle indicate added “fragrance” which I don’t think is good for my aquarium.   I have been added Stability from the start in addition to the Quick Start.  There is no algae growing in the tank yet, but I have left the 6500K lights on 24/7 over this past week.  I realize this may have slowed some bacterial growth initially. TDS this morning was around 165 and I did a small water change to bring it back down to 150. I am so anxious to begin to add some tiger shrimp to the new little aquarium.  I did a similar process with my neocaridina back when I first acquired them and my tank was about a week old when I added the bloody Mary’s and I suffered no losses.  Might I be as lucky with Caridina Cantonensis? Thanks for reading my post.  I attached some pics of the subject shrimp currently living in my neo tank and my new little empty aquarium.  
    • jayc
      @beanbag,  Anything that is likely shrimp safe is probably not going to harm these "Shell bugs" either. Have you tried anything that is not safe for shrimps, but in super low doses? That might kill the shell bugs but not the shrimp.   Here are some meds, USE WITH CAUTION and only in a hospital tank for experimentation of this specific case, namely, to find something that will kill "Shell Bugs". Trichlorfon/Dylox is useful for treatment of: Hydra, Lernia (Anchor Worms), Parasitic Copepods, Monodigenetic and Digenetic Flukes, Fish Lice (Argulus), Leeches.   Malachite Green - has some use in controlling protozoan parasites. Might work in this case too. Formalin - targets similar parasites like MG above. Often used in combination with MG.   Copper sulfate products - like Cupramine. For treatment of freshwater and marine ich (Cryptocaryon), Oodinium, external parasites, fungus, shimmy, and even algae (especially in ponds).    Kordon's Fish Therapy Bath - use of citrus oils (oils include citrus, neem, and lavender oils) to treat termites, fleas, etc. Lavender Oil also has repellent abilities. Neem oil is reported to be effective as an insecticide as well as some anti-inflammation properties, anti-fungal and limited anti-bacterial.     A lot of meds target bacterial symptoms, so I have avoided listing them above.  Good luck, and remember - Don't treat the main tank with this. Only use these meds in a hospital tank. 
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Sorry to hear you are still having this issue! You could try another aquarium but I would keep everything new and seperate so it will be a slow process. I would get new shrimps for it as well when it is ready! My 'incident' with the heater caused the new trial to not work and I don't really know why to this day? I don't think there was anything wrong with the setup or tank, it worked before the incident well and I used all new stuff except the tank. It has put me off trying again so that tank is still empty and I keep looking at it thinking I should try again (then I think of what that involves), but after the last attempt failing for some unknown reason I can't get the incentive to try again as it is such a long, expensive, time consuming process which may just fail again! It is very frustrating, as you know, when you can't work out why it fails and everything seems 'ideal'.  My betta is doing well and has some red cherry shrimps in with him and a friend gave me some small slightly blue snails and they are breeding wildly, so that tank is doing very well! Good luck and hopefully you'll keep us informed/updated.    
×
×
  • Create New...