Jump to content
jojowhisky

New tank setup for yellow shrimps.

Recommended Posts

jojowhisky

Happy new year simon!
Day 5 today and NO DEAD SHRIMPS in the yellow tank!
I have a tiny pestle and mortar and have crushed up all the pellets that i have! Excellant idea you gave me for the storage(test strip container) those are so clean inside, is airtight and yep, i keep the containers after it is finished! Thank you for the idea!
Yep i manage to see the 2 babies every once in awhile. They hide very well. One is yellow but i think its considered inferior(dont know about colour grading) only a spot of yellow at the head the rest of the body is translucent.
The other one is looking kind of orange actually.

Heres the sad news however, i just lost a crystal in the main tank after a water change of 1litre yesterday. It was the biggest crystal of the 4 remaining so im not sure if its time to go (age) or water issues. I think after water change lessons from you and jayc, i have so far tether the waters to nice levels very slowly weekly and only slow dripping methods as usual.
Just took the results fr the main tank:
Tds 195
Ph 6.4
Kh 2-3
Gh 5
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 15
Ammonia less than 0.05
Temp however, 29°c, someone went to switch my ac off when i went out, lost my cool:(


Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jojowhisky

Update:

*sad* as soon as i wrote an update on whats happening. Went to the yellow tank and saw one dead baby.


Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sdlTBfanUK

Happy New Year to you also!

I would say you are doing well if only the one has died in the new yellows tank as I always loose 1 or 2 when I get a new batch. It may be one of the orange??? If so it has done you a favour as one less to sort out when they get old enough to (cross) breed?

Which tank do you consider your 'main' tank, is that the crystal tank?

Sometimes shrimps die a while after a problem but it may have been weakened/sick by the previous event when the others died due to the heat etc! Keep plodding on with getting the right water parameters and then when it is steady look forward to getting a few new ones, always exciting and fun. Fingers crossed that the rest survive without any further problems but it is always safer to get the tanks right before putting the shrimps in the tank.

Simon

Edited by sdlTBfanUK
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jojowhisky

Yes the main tank is the tank with the crystals, which is the 16litre tank.
*sad* i probably am going to stay away from crystals for awhile. There are only but 3 of them now in the tank, so, they are not going to see new crystals anytime soon.( not going to buy more)

On to the new tank with the yellows, the baby that died is the yellow! ;(
Really wonder what kills babies?
Are the reasons the same as adult shrimps or are there extra points to the reasons why baby shrimps die?



Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sdlTBfanUK

Sounds a very wise idea to not rush and get any more crystals yet, you may get some babies anyway. I would do the same and just let them carry on as they are until everything looks stable, and if you are due a hot spell then I would wait until after that to see how it all goes. The crystals are more sensitive than the neos so I would concentrate on the yellows for now and just carry on as is with the crystals for 3 or 4 months until after the hot weather you expect and you feel more confident! Hopefully though you may get some babies.Do you have red cherries in that tank as well, I have lost track a bit? You are expecting the RO water machine in a few weeks as well so that will be something else they will need to adapt to, so if you leave it a few months you should be at a stage where the water and parameters are steady and a regular routine of maintenance etc. I will keep my fingers crossed that the 3 remaining crystals make it and you get some babies.

I prefer the taiwan bees because they are more difficult to keep, it has taken me years to get that right, but because of that I think it makes it more rewarding to me! If that makes any sense! I pay little/no attention to my red cherries for the same reason.

Usually, over here breeders generally try to send juveniles as (same as humans/animals etc) these are the strongest and more adaptable to any changes. Personally I wouldn't worry too much if you have lost one of the new yellows, as I always lose 1 or 2 of a new batch (and I have bought a lot of batches over the trial years) within the first couple of weeks as they are adapting to the new environment and water parameters, it is very tough for them in that period I think. Hopefully that will be the only one you lose, but give it another week yet to see how it goes. 

Simon

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kms

My tanks is about 27C, and the way I see how a tank get stable, is when the shrimps has babies, and those babies become the adult, and have their own babies, right now I have about 5 of those babies become adult all with eggs and babies, and at present I can see about 12 babies swimming around, some of the adults are still carrying eggs, so there should be more babies later on. like many people, I've been through trial and error, lost many shrimps on the way, and it's been about 5 months since I've started keeping shrimps.

Right not I have many reds of all variation, yellows/gold, a red and white bee (not sure what type) clear one, and some unknown ones that is gold and copper in color with weird markings, I call the mosquito shrimps, as they look like mosquito:happy:.

I've also had one or two king kong black, blue, snow white and cobalt blue, all died, I want to try some more cobalt blue later on, that's what got me started into shrimps.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sdlTBfanUK
1 hour ago, kms said:

My tanks is about 27C, and the way I see how a tank get stable, is when the shrimps has babies, and those babies become the adult, and have their own babies, right now I have about 5 of those babies become adult all with eggs and babies, and at present I can see about 12 babies swimming around, some of the adults are still carrying eggs, so there should be more babies later on. like many people, I've been through trial and error, lost many shrimps on the way, and it's been about 5 months since I've started keeping shrimps.

Right not I have many reds of all variation, yellows/gold, a red and white bee (not sure what type) clear one, and some unknown ones that is gold and copper in color with weird markings, I call the mosquito shrimps, as they look like mosquito:happy:.

I've also had one or two king kong black, blue, snow white and cobalt blue, all died, I want to try some more cobalt blue later on, that's what got me started into shrimps.

Hopefully Jojo will get some solace from the fact that (like most people, me included) you had a rocky start and lost some shrimps, it is quite normal as we all learn. Jojo main problem was the water getting to 30 degrees - that has only happened to me once (many years ago and some of my shrimps died then if I recall correctly) and that was a heater stuck on in my case, as UK not known for hot weather..............

As per the other thread, I am sure your copper with weird markings is a wild cherry shrimp as I have loads similar in my red cherry tank. Usually it is advisable to fish those out and cull them but my tank is densely planted so would be difficult and anyway they are hard to spot and I don't spend much time on them any more (concentrating on the bee shrimp), eventually the reds will probably become all like the wild type, I am expecting anyway?

Simon

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jojowhisky
Sounds a very wise idea to not rush and get any more crystals yet, you may get some babies anyway. I would do the same and just let them carry on as they are until everything looks stable, and if you are due a hot spell then I would wait until after that to see how it all goes. The crystals are more sensitive than the neos so I would concentrate on the yellows for now and just carry on as is with the crystals for 3 or 4 months until after the hot weather you expect and you feel more confident! Hopefully though you may get some babies.Do you have red cherries in that tank as well, I have lost track a bit? You are expecting the RO water machine in a few weeks as well so that will be something else they will need to adapt to, so if you leave it a few months you should be at a stage where the water and parameters are steady and a regular routine of maintenance etc. I will keep my fingers crossed that the 3 remaining crystals make it and you get some babies.
I prefer the taiwan bees because they are more difficult to keep, it has taken me years to get that right, but because of that I think it makes it more rewarding to me! If that makes any sense! I pay little/no attention to my red cherries for the same reason.
Usually, over here breeders generally try to send juveniles as (same as humans/animals etc) these are the strongest and more adaptable to any changes. Personally I wouldn't worry too much if you have lost one of the new yellows, as I always lose 1 or 2 of a new batch (and I have bought a lot of batches over the trial years) within the first couple of weeks as they are adapting to the new environment and water parameters, it is very tough for them in that period I think. Hopefully that will be the only one you lose, but give it another week yet to see how it goes. 
Simon
Hey simon,
Day 6 and i just finished doing a small water change for the yellows. (800mls)
One yellow died.

*breathing slowly*

Yeah seems like deaths are inevitable in this baking singapore sun. I could really probably roast a chicken in my room.

Yes the main tank houses 3 crystals and one adult fire red and about 50plus fire red babies.

This new tank houses only yellows. And now there is only 14 of them in it.
One died just now. The other 2 bavies originally from the pail that got in here, one died yesterday. I cant seem to find the other one. (Dense forestry going on)

Yep now RO System on the way but im not too excited?? Going back to japan for 2 weeks and the thought of acclimating them to a brand new type of water medium creeps me out quite abit.
May just do the change after im back to singapore.

Hey simon how did the response to your ad in the papers go? Remembered awhile ago you put something up in the papers? Anyone responded yet?
How did the culling go as well? I saw 2 black fire red babies (if that makes any sense) in my main tank and i am amused. They are as dark as the substrate!

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sdlTBfanUK

I think I would wait until you get back before starting with the RO water. Is someone else going to be looking after the shrimps whilst you are away, it will be a lot easier to just get someone to keep topping up with the bottled water and a bit of feeding anyway whilst you're away? Do you drip the new water in when you do a water change, I am doing my cherry and nano fish tank as we speak!

I haven't yet had anyone wanting my free shrimps but it is a bit of a needle in a haystack ask as they need to live close enough for it to be worth there while coming to get them. I stopped culling over xmas period but had culled 25 by then, and will need to start again now. I put new photos at the weekend at the very end of the original zerowater thread I did https://skfaquatics.com/forum/topic/14025-tap-water-taiwan-bee-uk-zerowater/ and there must still be over 100, I counted 84 on sunday.

I have seen black cherry shrimp before. You will have a variety of colours. You may still have 1 orange hiding in with the yellows somewhere, but if that last one dies it will at least solve you sorting out what to do with it when it is old enough to (cross)breed. You have a lot of red  cherry babies so they are doing well and should give you some confidence that there isn't too much wrong, the crystals are a lot more fragile! At least you have only lost 1 yellow so I think you are doing well and you still have plenty left.

 

Simon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jojowhisky

Hi all,
This is an update on day 7.
Lost the only mummy shrimp a few secs ago.

I cant seem to start setup for the tank that is going to house the tetras. Always something going on with the shrimps.

Anyways, im no doctor but as soon as i saw she flipped over, i waited for her to really die.(legs still moving)
As soon as she was gone, i extracted all the eggs and put it in a clean empty distilled water bottle.
Filled it up with tank water for the yellows and am now utilizing all my brain cells on how to mimic fanning conditions of mummy shrimp.
Guess i would insert a long airstone vertically and since water is only till a third, full bubbling from the airstone will be very minimal. (Airpump will be set to lowest)

I have no experience whatsoever in this area, i just have experience in killing shrimps apparently(alright bad joke)
After this, i dont really know what to do with this makeshift egg hatchery.
Fingers crossed.
Yellow shrimp count to date: 13

Installing the airstone now.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sdlTBfanUK

Sorry to hear about your loss and would be great if you manage to get the eggs to hatch but that isn't anything I know about, but worth a try though with 13 shrimps you will get more babies once everything has 'properly settled' (assuming you have a mix of males/females). You are pretty much in line with my (also novice) experience that first week is the most risky and if I bought ten would probably lose 2 then and another 1 (50% of the 1st week) the 2nd week and then it should be plain sailing as long as you keep the water parameters nice and steady.

What have you done with the tetras in the meantime?

The only thing I am not too sure about is the CO2 aspect? I will try and do some reading/searching on that a bit later as I don't know whether that affects shrimps in any way? I have to do my weekly shrimp tank maintenance first, but then I will have a look around to see what I can find on this and let you know if I find anything worth noting! If you had it in the tank for the grass and that all died maybe you don't need it?

Sorry again to hear you lost the mummy shrimp but in my limited experience you are pretty much inline with what happens to me as above. There may be people out there that get 100% new shrimp survival rates IN NEWLY SET UP TANKS but they are probably either much much more experienced, or just plain lucky? Keep going, worst first week over! She may have just had too much going on with trying to adapt to the new tank/water etc and carrying babies may have just been too much to do all at the same time.

Good luck with the eggs!

Simon

Edited by sdlTBfanUK
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jojowhisky

Thanks simon
Just got back from the fish store could not find a suitable hatchery that fits my tank size(hatchery too big to be hang or submerged in my tank)
Well, have inserted the airstone with gentle bubbling.
I use a tiny pipette meant for medical purposes to swirl the eggs lightly every so often.
The egss are bright yellow in colour with 2 tiny black dots(guess thats the eyes) at the moment.
Am really not sure if they will turn colour as they mature or even if they will actually mature without the mother now.
The tiny distilled water bottle was used to mix biofilm conditioner so there is alot of biofilm that grew inside.
Heres hoping, last night was quite an experience, had to dissect the mother in order to scrape out the eggs. Was mildly disturbed after that.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kms

I've read on the net, try getting some almond leaves, they release all the necessary nutrition in water helps keep shrimps alive and increase breeding, they only negative is the water gets tanned. May be you should try it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jojowhisky

Oh my Lord!! Great news!
One shrimp just hatched!!!
I was just doing a diy hatchery and had wanted to transfer all the eggs into the newly made hatchery, saw one tiny fella swimming around!!
***happy!!!!***

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sdlTBfanUK

I think the eggs start yellow and go greyer ans they develop so when the shrimp hatch they are all clear and colour up in a few days, that is what I have seen anyway so if that is true your eggs are early stage. I believe the yellow is the yoke and as that gets used up they are less yellow!

I have done my taiwan bee tank so had a quick google search for shrimp and co2 and came across these which you may want to look at. I typed in co2 on this website but it didn't come up with anything but I may trawl through the sections later and see if I can find something, I'm sure there must be something on this forum somewhere?

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88-shrimp-other-invertebrates/1176489-cherry-shrimp-co2.html

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88-shrimp-other-invertebrates/154864-co2-cherry-red-shrimp-careful.html

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cherry-shrimp-and-co2.26217/

http://www.shrimpspot.com/topic/370-shrimp-and-co2/

Having read through these and others I would say there is obviously a risk to using CO2, though obviously many do. Whether it is worth it is down to you to decide? My tanks are densely planted and I don't use CO2 at all and everything I have tried grows 'like weeds'! Anyway, hope this helps and after my lunch I will look on this forum again to see if there is anything here on CO2. I would reiterate though that I don't use it but your loses and circumstances are similar to mine so I can't say the CO2 is causing you any problem, just an added risk?

Right, lunch now!

Simon

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kms

Co2 is to increase the growth rate of plants, and many hard to grow plants rely on Co2, although many plants can do well without Co2, Co2 can increase the growth rate as well as coloration and plants do look nice, many multicolor plants need Co2. From my understanding, Co2 does not affect shrimp, but generate more oxygen in the water which is needed for shrimps.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jojowhisky
I've read on the net, try getting some almond leaves, they release all the necessary nutrition in water helps keep shrimps alive and increase breeding, they only negative is the water gets tanned. May be you should try it.
Hi kms
Yes i have those in my tank, great stuff!
Its a holistic approach to better shrimp health

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jojowhisky
I think the eggs start yellow and go greyer ans they develop so when the shrimp hatch they are all clear and colour up in a few days, that is what I have seen anyway so if that is true your eggs are early stage. I believe the yellow is the yoke and as that gets used up they are less yellow!
I have done my taiwan bee tank so had a quick google search for shrimp and co2 and came across these which you may want to look at. I typed in co2 on this website but it didn't come up with anything but I may trawl through the sections later and see if I can find something, I'm sure there must be something on this forum somewhere?
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88-shrimp-other-invertebrates/1176489-cherry-shrimp-co2.html
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88-shrimp-other-invertebrates/154864-co2-cherry-red-shrimp-careful.html
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cherry-shrimp-and-co2.26217/
http://www.shrimpspot.com/topic/370-shrimp-and-co2/
Having read through these and others I would say there is obviously a risk to using CO2, though obviously many do. Whether it is worth it is down to you to decide? My tanks are densely planted and I don't use CO2 at all and everything I have tried grows 'like weeds'! Anyway, hope this helps and after my lunch I will look on this forum again to see if there is anything here on CO2. I would reiterate though that I don't use it but your loses and circumstances are similar to mine so I can't say the CO2 is causing you any problem, just an added risk?
Right, lunch now!
Simon
Hi simon
Enjoy ur lunch!
Thank you for looking through the net for me.
Yes i agree co2 is actually a risk in a shrimp tank though its magic for plants.
I guess its all about control of its levels and also to really think if you wanna breed your shrimps seriously.
I have noticed shrimp breeders (marks shrimp tanks) they dont really inject co2 into their tanks.
Definately something to think about.
So happy that one shrimp hatched!


Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sdlTBfanUK

Your tank has quite a few plants so I assume you need the CO2 for that. Either way no one would probably blame that with the 2 shrimps deaths. If, as KMS says, it helps plants grow quicker, that is probably something you don't want in such a small tank as it will soon get overgrown! I also noted when reading the google search threads that CO2 reduces algae but I thought the shrimps eat algae, if so, again that may be something you don't want it to do????? Anyway don't want to bang on about CO2 as it isn't something I have any experience of. Maybe I need to get into it if it can keep breeding rates down.....................

Have you had an egg hatch already?

One other thing I noted when reading up is, do you use plant fertilizer/food?

Simon

Edited by sdlTBfanUK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sdlTBfanUK
1 hour ago, kms said:

Co2 is to increase the growth rate of plants, and many hard to grow plants rely on Co2, although many plants can do well without Co2, Co2 can increase the growth rate as well as coloration and plants do look nice, many multicolor plants need Co2. From my understanding, Co2 does not affect shrimp, but generate more oxygen in the water which is needed for shrimps.

Thanks for that, I wondered why people use it, now I know! I must have (unkowingly) chosen plants that don't need it  by default.

Simon

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kms

Like us, which are dedicated to shrimps, some people are into planted aquarium with beautiful landscape and a few tetra, for them Co2 is a must.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sdlTBfanUK
2 minutes ago, kms said:

Like us, which are dedicated to shrimps, some people are into planted aquarium with beautiful landscape and a few tetra, for them Co2 is a must.

I know what you mean and I have been stunned by some of the aquascapes I have seen over the years, truly awesome. There are some pictures on this forum which are stunning as well. I don't have the patience or ability to get to that level!

Simon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jojowhisky
Your tank has quite a few plants so I assume you need the CO2 for that. Either way no one would probably blame that with the 2 shrimps deaths. If, as KMS says, it helps plants grow quicker, that is probably something you don't want in such a small tank as it will soon get overgrown! I also noted when reading the google search threads that CO2 reduces algae but I thought the shrimps eat algae, if so, again that may be something you don't want it to do????? Anyway don't want to bang on about CO2 as it isn't something I have any experience of. Maybe I need to get into it if it can keep breeding rates down.....................
Have you had an egg hatch already?
One other thing I noted when reading up is, do you use plant fertilizer/food?
Simon
Yes!! One egg hatched
Saw the tiny fella whilst transferring all the eggs in the diy hatchery!
We will see what happens.
Ya, im not too pleased with the fact i dont have any algae for them.
My co2 setup is a semi high tech one, it comes prepared for you with the yeast mixture. You just gotta mix it and top up the yeast when it runs out. So it is not a serious one with a regulated solenoid and metal cylinder. In fact it ran out quite awhile ago and i just left it. Been too busy with acclimating of the yellow shrimps into their new tanks, the heat wave that killed my crystals(have my ac turned on 24hrs a day now) and the death of the yellow mummy. Also currently now, the construction of the hatchery. Who could forget last night's live biology practical of removing the eggs! It is surely an eventful start of 2019 for me.
Well, i must get back now to scaping the tank for the tetras. They have recovered from their ailments with the paraguard and are much happier in the hospital tank which will go as soon as i can finish and cycle their new tank! Phew! I will keep asking myself why did i choose to go into this hobby again.

Below is the picture of the hatchery i made
The bottom throws the eggs gently mimicking the mother's fanning behaviour.60cd2ff233644059ac4445ef6c119175.jpg

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kms
6 minutes ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

I know what you mean and I have been stunned by some of the aquascapes I have seen over the years, truly awesome. There are some pictures on this forum which are stunning as well. I don't have the patience or ability to get to that level!

Simon

Me too I have all the equipment and plants, and carpeting plant seed for a good setup, just no patience.:happy:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kms
11 minutes ago, jojowhisky said:

Yes!! One egg hatched
Saw the tiny fella whilst transferring all the eggs in the diy hatchery!
We will see what happens.
Ya, im not too pleased with the fact i dont have any algae for them.
My co2 setup is a semi high tech one, it comes prepared for you with the yeast mixture. You just gotta mix it and top up the yeast when it runs out. So it is not a serious one with a regulated solenoid and metal cylinder. In fact it ran out quite awhile ago and i just left it. Been too busy with acclimating of the yellow shrimps into their new tanks, the heat wave that killed my crystals(have my ac turned on 24hrs a day now) and the death of the yellow mummy. Also currently now, the construction of the hatchery. Who could forget last night's live biology practical of removing the eggs! It is surely an eventful start of 2019 for me.
Well, i must get back now to scaping the tank for the tetras. They have recovered from their ailments with the paraguard and are much happier in the hospital tank which will go as soon as i can finish and cycle their new tank! Phew! I will keep asking myself why did i choose to go into this hobby again.

Below is the picture of the hatchery i made
The bottom throws the eggs gently mimicking the mother's fanning behaviour.60cd2ff233644059ac4445ef6c119175.jpg

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

My yellow shrimp gave birth to one red shrimp, one blue shrimp and many yellows, about 20 in total.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Must Read SKF Articles

  • Register today, ask questions and share your shrimp and fish tank experiences with us!

    Join Our Community!

  • Posts

    • Steensj2004
      Update for anyone interested.Rock was removed, Ph and TDS is down, over the last few days it’s crept down to around 190TDs after small water changes. Something that want happening with even larger changes before. PH seems to be down around 6.5. I hope it stays at that level, all inhabitants look to be doing well.
    • Cesar
      IME, the healthiest and highest quality has always buying directly from hobbyist, usually a small setup in their garage or fish room. Next was specialty store/importer, last is the local TFS, both often having stock that has been imported, transported and kept in less than ideal conditions... Buying directly from hobbyist has always produced the best results for me...
    • Steensj2004
      Did boil a few times, the water wasn’t completely clear when I stopped cleaning it. So they should be getting some tannins. I was able to remove all but one rock, I have one more piece to put in in its plAce today.   Right on. I’m originally from Ohio, and I’ve been scoping out Flip’s videos and website for a few weeks now. Looks like I’ll be ordering from either Flip or AquaHuna after I get this tank works out completely.   TDS is already down slightly after removing the rock and doing a small water change. I also took the opportunity to remove some plants I wasn’t a fan of and replace them. Indian Almond Leaves came in today too, but my BacterAE is delayed. Thanks Amazon.🙄🙄
    • Goshio22
      Its about 1 cm its definitely of breeding age.. i would be happy if its male, but my eyes is untrained when it comes to fully colored males.
    • sdlTBfanUK
      I would think that is a male IF it is old enough to be able to tell but I think it is maybe too young to tell? This video should give you some handy tips for seeing the differences! https://skfaquatics.com/forum/forums/topic/14104-telling-male-from-female-shrimp/ Simon
×