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New tank setup for yellow shrimps.


jojowhisky
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Wow! You must have good eyesight to see a baby like that, the only time I see babies is when they are on the side of the tank (as they are usually clear) and using a magnifying glass. Fingers crossed it survives. That's quite a setup you have rigged up for the hatchery, I hope it pays off.

The easiest way to keep the tanks cool (as long as they aren't in direct light) will be to run the air con permanently as I had a quick look and even at night your forecast is 26+, we are lucky if we get that a few days a year during the daytime, hence we don't have air con generally over here. It is much easier than buying some coolers/chillers and setting them up (I don't know how you do that) but probably more expensive long term! At least with the air con on you can just pretty much not even bother to check the temperature, apart from occasionally. 

Good to hear that the tetras are recovering. I watched a 4 part youtube of  'marks aquatics' on how to breed neon tetras - I think I will stick to just buying them as they are really cheap over here anyway. Hope you get their tank sorted ready to start cycling today.

Simon

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Wow! You must have good eyesight to see a baby like that, the only time I see babies is when they are on the side of the tank (as they are usually clear) and using a magnifying glass. Fingers crossed it survives. That's quite a setup you have rigged up for the hatchery, I hope it pays off.
The easiest way to keep the tanks cool (as long as they aren't in direct light) will be to run the air con permanently as I had a quick look and even at night your forecast is 26+, we are lucky if we get that a few days a year during the daytime, hence we don't have air con generally over here. It is much easier than buying some coolers/chillers and setting them up (I don't know how you do that) but probably more expensive long term! At least with the air con on you can just pretty much not even bother to check the temperature, apart from occasionally. 
Good to hear that the tetras are recovering. I watched a 4 part youtube of  'marks aquatics' on how to breed neon tetras - I think I will stick to just buying them as they are really cheap over here anyway. Hope you get their tank sorted ready to start cycling today.
Simon
With my ac switched on the main tank of crystals and the yellow tanks are now reading 21°c.
The crystals suddenly became so active grazing more and doing flips, yeah i guess they really love cool temps.
It was a good thing i was working directly under the tank light else i would have missed the shrimp entirely, it was colourless and so tiny.
Wasnt moving much, guess it just hatched.
Im just thinking if i should throw some baby food powder in the hatchery

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15 minutes ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Wow! You must have good eyesight to see a baby like that, the only time I see babies is when they are on the side of the tank (as they are usually clear) and using a magnifying glass. Fingers crossed it survives. That's quite a setup you have rigged up for the hatchery, I hope it pays off.

The easiest way to keep the tanks cool (as long as they aren't in direct light) will be to run the air con permanently as I had a quick look and even at night your forecast is 26+, we are lucky if we get that a few days a year during the daytime, hence we don't have air con generally over here. It is much easier than buying some coolers/chillers and setting them up (I don't know how you do that) but probably more expensive long term! At least with the air con on you can just pretty much not even bother to check the temperature, apart from occasionally. 

Good to hear that the tetras are recovering. I watched a 4 part youtube of  'marks aquatics' on how to breed neon tetras - I think I will stick to just buying them as they are really cheap over here anyway. Hope you get their tank sorted ready to start cycling today.

Simon

A cooler fits between a canister filter and the return tube to the tank, the cooler has a in and out to connect the canister tube.

9 minutes ago, jojowhisky said:

With my ac switched on the main tank of crystals and the yellow tanks are now reading 21°c.
The crystals suddenly became so active grazing more and doing flips, yeah i guess they really love cool temps.
It was a good thing i was working directly under the tank light else i would have missed the shrimp entirely, it was colourless and so tiny.
Wasnt moving much, guess it just hatched.
Im just thinking if i should throw some baby food powder in the hatchery

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If they are already free swimming, and you don't have fish in the tank, you can remove it from the hatchery, my babies are with the rest of the shrimps and it's mother. I never give it food, it should be able to find food.

Edited by kms
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A cooler fits between a canister filter and the return tube to the tank, the cooler has a in and out to connect the canister tube.
@kms yep i read about the chillers but you know since i have in the same room, 2 shrimp tanks and one tetra tank on going setup, i thought it would be more cost efficient to just turn on the ac.
(Cool the ambient temp)
Furthermore, the chiller looks to be too complicated and bulky to my liking, if there should be some maintainence like heavy lifting to he repair store, i dont think i can manage.
A plus point my 2 dogs love to be in the room now with me when i do tank maintainence because of the cool temps.
**cute**

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1 hour ago, jojowhisky said:

A cooler fits between a canister filter and the return tube to the tank, the cooler has a in and out to connect the canister tube.
@kms yep i read about the chillers but you know since i have in the same room, 2 shrimp tanks and one tetra tank on going setup, i thought it would be more cost efficient to just turn on the ac.
(Cool the ambient temp)
Furthermore, the chiller looks to be too complicated and bulky to my liking, if there should be some maintainence like heavy lifting to he repair store, i dont think i can manage.
A plus point my 2 dogs love to be in the room now with me when i do tank maintainence because of the cool temps.
**cute**

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I admit I would put the air con on, all for the easiest solution, plus you ALL benefit people/dogs/tanks etc. The only down side would be higher electricity bills but if you aren't worried then leaving air con on seems the easiest and most rewarding for all route. Otherwise you have to run 3 chillers for the 3 tanks? If you're not worried about the increased electricity of running the air con, that is the route I would go definitely.

Simon

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Thats a wrap for tonight!
Had 4 hatched!
Relaeased 2 out of the hatchery, the other 2 just did not want to peave so i stuff some moss in there so they can at least hang on to something.
This is very encouraging to me, seeing that they hatch. Was so sad that mummy died and honestly, i didnt think i could pull this whole thing off, i really did not think someone as brainless as me could see live babies hatch from these eggs.
I was just tearing up abit. **emotional**


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Here are some photos of the moment, sorry for all the typo errors in the previous reply, was too emotional.
I could really celebrate. You know, its one thing to have so many shrimp dying and one other life changing thing to witness eggs that you saved, actually hatch!
**dancing around**52f1adeca7220da3fe42f3d0263ad502.jpgb935b1513e0ae3416fb79b4d019f25b9.jpg

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3 minutes ago, jojowhisky said:

Here are some photos of the moment, sorry for all the typo errors in the previous reply, was too emotional.
I could really celebrate. You know, its one thing to have so many shrimp dying and one other life changing thing to witness eggs that you saved, actually hatch!
**dancing around**52f1adeca7220da3fe42f3d0263ad502.jpgb935b1513e0ae3416fb79b4d019f25b9.jpg

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I understand, I was like that when I saw my first baby.

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GREAT news, well impressed and pleased it worked out!

I will keep my fingers crossed they survive.

You should rightly feel pleased with yourself, and hopefully it has boosted your confidence so you can carry on with renewed vigour!

Simon 

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JOJO you definitely should watch this video, and not just because it is the same shrimp as you have. It is a bit long and he is a bit of a waffler but it mentions A LOT of what has happened with you so it may explain somethings better than I could, ie the water change may have caused your berried shrimp problem etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRENRvQbxaw

Enjoy!

Simon

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JOJO you definitely should watch this video, and not just because it is the same shrimp as you have. It is a bit long and he is a bit of a waffler but it mentions A LOT of what has happened with you so it may explain somethings better than I could, ie the water change may have caused your

Enjoy!
Simon
Ok i will watch it in abit and let you know what i think!
Thanks simon!

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Yep i have watched that video.
Mark is really passionate about the hobby, you can hear it in the way he talks about things.
Much like yourself and jayc.

Thanks for sharing this video, it is indeed very relative and actually it did encourage me a whole lot.

14mins into the video he covered mummy shrimp molting with the eggs.(forced molt)
20plusmins into the video he covered failed molting, (post molt or stuck in the molt, aka "white band of death mr diamond")

I learnt alot from this video.
My thoughts:

I think i myself killed yellow mummy shrimp, not the water parameters, i did it.
Realized i should not have done that 800mls water change after they were in there.
There wasn't a need to do that water change actually.
They had just acclimatized to the tank not too long ago and i should have left them to it.
(Prompted by mark, he mentioned when there are berried shrimps you minimize water changes)
I had the idea that i wanted the water to be pristine and so a small 800mls water change isnt going to be shocking anyone. I failed to remember that they had just came into this tank from the breeders. So had i not done the water change, they would not die. I think the drip acclimating done for them in the bag was done well but i shocked them further, another time you could say, when i did that water change way too soon. Kills me to remember that actually that water change was not really needed. (Believed nitrates was low, tds was just about climbing but not rocket high). Could be why after that, they dropped like flies and than the one baby shrimp from the pail died along as well.
Than at this point in the video i was reminded of my main tank with the crystals n reds. When all the females were berried, i hardly did water changes. Actually only once or twice and very small amounts and the babies were all successfully hatched with the mummies not dying till much later. This is a lesson for me. Over caring for the tank is gonna harm them more than anything(fussing too much)

He also mentioned failed molts in shrimps and had related it to diet. (After he dropped the broccoli into the tank)
Makes me think, i actually neglect the shrimps diet generally. In the sense i do not feed them regular enough. Had thought they can eat all that biofilm in the tank, i only drop a minute sized pellet or powdered shirakura chi ebi in for them once a week or sometimes even once every 2 weeks, i wonder if this could be why they seem to be dying from molt failures despite the water being relatively better than last time? Noticed that they die usually with a gap after their heads and always after a water change. Because the water is really better than before when i first started and i slow drip back new water into the tank but it is so frustrating to see 1 die day after a water change. I may have neglected their diet in this aspect???
Will give a try to use fresh boiled foods for a change to see if things improve, want them to have more vitality for sure. Im sure if i neglect this area it would affect breeding for sure, i had been too obessed with getting the water better till i neglected nutrition.

Lastly he talked about keeping everything to a constant and in a way he is saying dont chase numbers, see what works for you in your setup and that takes trial and error.
Will definately keep that in mind now that i am better than when i first started.
I think this video was really meant for me, thank you again simon.


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It was a bit freaky that so much was relevant to you, it had the same shrimp, and it was only posted yesterday, freaky, it was posted for you!

He also mentioned that shrimps can die a week after they are put into a tank due to the earlier stress. Also he mentioned feeding the new borns so hope you saw that?

You have quite a small tank with quite a few shrimps in it (the yellows) so I doubt the tank would produce enough food on it's own to cover them all. If you use broccoli or spinach make sure it is organic (no pesticides or pollution). I feed mine something every day and alternate, but with commercial shrimp food I use the 'dip a pin into the tank 2mm, then quickly into the food, then back into the tank'. I would do this same thing with yours every other day, dipping 1-2mm of the pin into the tank quickly. Each step has to be done quickly so that not too much food/powder sticks together.

Regarding the water change, it is probably a bit impossible to not do a water change when a female is berried as there is likely always going to be at least one berried? I do a weekly maintenance in 28L where I change 2L (about 7%) but it slowly drips in over a period of 6 hours (I timed it yesterday for reference). As you say, it probably was a mistake to do a water change so soon after putting the shrimps in the tank as it wasn't needed really but like ALL of us you learn by these things so don't be too hard on yourself! Although I never had ANY problems when I started with cherry shrimp as I think mine were supershrimps (I didn't even acclimatise them in any way, just chucked them in with the fish straight from the shop - I didn't know any better at that stage so it was sheer dumb luck they survived I guess), but you are still doing really well in such a short time, certainly way better than when I tried the TB the first time!

I think the main thing, BOTH videos said was to keep everything constant and stable. It is better to mess about with the parameters BEFORE you put the shrimps in the tank, but sometimes this isn't possible!

Glad you were inspired by the youtube video - it could have been made specially for you, spooky.

Simon 

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Yes this is for me, the video.
Was it really made recently? Well than, i will just take it as if he was giving me a lesson.
Indeed encouraging.
Liked that he gives advice based on what works and not what brings in viewership.

Yep going by that and how you feed your shrimps, i think my shrimps they could eat a little more. Actually like a few minute pin portions of food every other day is fine. Guess i have been reading too much on planaria and all the other horrific overfeeding nasties.

Yep i also noted on the feeding of the newborns. Will go get some betaglucan by glasgarten probably on sunday.
I see that they strip the biofilm real fast like what you mentioned, its probably because my tank is so tiny.
Hopefully this product is good for the babies as he mentioned they need some bacteria in their guts.

Anyways, both my tanks are reading 20 to 21°c as of yesterday till current.
They all seem more cheery and lively.

I must say shrimp keeping is indeed a work of art. Before this i only knew dogs. But of course, i got to pick the hardest haha

Well back to the drawing board i guess. Working on my tetra tank till late since its the weekend.
Thank you again simon, it was really timely and helpful was about to drown in all the overwhelming overthinking if there is even such a thing :)



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16 hours ago, jojowhisky said:

Yes this is for me, the video.
Was it really made recently? Well than, i will just take it as if he was giving me a lesson.
Indeed encouraging.
Liked that he gives advice based on what works and not what brings in viewership.

Yep going by that and how you feed your shrimps, i think my shrimps they could eat a little more. Actually like a few minute pin portions of food every other day is fine. Guess i have been reading too much on planaria and all the other horrific overfeeding nasties.

Yep i also noted on the feeding of the newborns. Will go get some betaglucan by glasgarten probably on sunday.
I see that they strip the biofilm real fast like what you mentioned, its probably because my tank is so tiny.
Hopefully this product is good for the babies as he mentioned they need some bacteria in their guts.

Anyways, both my tanks are reading 20 to 21°c as of yesterday till current.
They all seem more cheery and lively.

I must say shrimp keeping is indeed a work of art. Before this i only knew dogs. But of course, i got to pick the hardest haha

Well back to the drawing board i guess. Working on my tetra tank till late since its the weekend.
Thank you again simon, it was really timely and helpful was about to drown in all the overwhelming overthinking if there is even such a thing ?



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I think that video was only posted 3rd January so the very day you had problems, spooky!

I use the Bacter ae (bacteria) and the Beta Glucen (immune system) but as the original video I use a LOT less than they recommend and use it twice a week. Again I use the pin method so as not to get too much, the bacter ae clouds the water  if you use too much. I go by 'a little is better than none, but too much is dangerous'.

Hope you got the tetra tank set up and now you can just wait for that to cycle.

Fantastic to hear you have more babies, hopefully everything will be on the up from now on, you have passed the first week as well.

I have put spinach in my tank this morning and counted 97 shrimp, got to start culling again?

Simon

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18 hours ago, jojowhisky said:

More babies have arrived this morning!

Woo Hoo!!

Congrats on the new babies. I count 4 of them now.

 

17 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Beta Glucen

When you run out, try rolled Oats. You can put the oats into a blender if you want it a smaller size.

That's essentially what that product is made of. Oats, Wheat, Barley blended into a powder.

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Update: i released all the babies in the hatchery today. Counted 14 babies plus another 2 that was released earlier.
The rest of the eggs grow white mold *sad* though they were still yellow in colour but the mold was pretty thick, i could not separate the individual eggs that were stuck together anymore. There was at least another 20 eggs? But those i know would most probably not hatch. *bad eggs or eggs gone bad*

Could not see much of the babies so i do not know if they will all survive. Sad that i cant save all the eggs. Had high expectations and hopes.

Anyways, i managed to finish the setup for the tetras and tank is cycling at last.
This is my first "big" tank. (41litres)
I have to stand on a small stool just to put plants in and possibly to do water changes for this tank...(short people's woes)

319a046754d361f0399b097065351642.jpg994a4997237995accbc78bebff916657.jpg

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Another great looking tank, hope the tetras appreciate it when it is cycled! You are using the same filters as I am, don't forget you can remove the base so there is more exposed sponge area, and it makes cleaning the sponge easier as you don't need to pull the body apart, just pull it out from the bottom etc, you don't even need to remove it from the tank side, just rotate it 120 degrees!

You did well to save even some of the eggs to shrimplets. I wouldn't expect you to see them for a while in the tank as they hide a lot for the first few weeks or more. As when I transferred to the new tank there were loads of newborns I didn't even know were in the old tank?????

I saw this at the weekend which may interest you, I know you made your own but there may be a tip or 2 to help if it happens again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGsPOvRWcZ4

I finally bit the bullet and started culling again, did 10 juveniles, tank still looks over-run though! Got to do the shrimp tank weekly maintenance today.

Simon

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Another great looking tank, hope the tetras appreciate it when it is cycled! You are using the same filters as I am, don't forget you can remove the base so there is more exposed sponge area, and it makes cleaning the sponge easier as you don't need to pull the body apart, just pull it out from the bottom etc, you don't even need to remove it from the tank side, just rotate it 120 degrees!
You did well to save even some of the eggs to shrimplets. I wouldn't expect you to see them for a while in the tank as they hide a lot for the first few weeks or more. As when I transferred to the new tank there were loads of newborns I didn't even know were in the old tank?????
I saw this at the weekend which may interest you, I know you made your own but there may be a tip or 2 to help if it happens again:

I finally bit the bullet and started culling again, did 10 juveniles, tank still looks over-run though! Got to do the shrimp tank weekly maintenance today.
Simon
Thanks simon!
Will have a look at the video you shared, as with all the videos so far, it definately was of good help!
Hopefully you are right about the babies, maybe more will pop out when they get bigger, just off hand, i can only see 2 babies at any one point.
Noted about that filter! I added that filter that was originally from the main tank of crystals and fire reds. This new tetra tank came with an overhead filter, as i am still new to this hobby, i ran it last night and saw that the flow wasnt great, its very gentle??(never operated an overhead filter before) So that was the reason i added in the internal filter. I like the water column to have more circulation.
You know what else? Ever since i ran my ac 24hrs in the dry mode and kept my room to a constant 23°c, i noticed that the 3 remaining crystals are not dying and seem to be more alive?
I see why now everyone is saying they need those low temps, have read over the weekend somewhere that this is due to their thicker shells, they have thicker shells compared to neos.
Well, on the whole, i can see improved vitality in all the shrimps, neos and caridinas now that the temperature is lower and is stable. Hopefully i see some berried females this year, thats hoping i actually have some males in the tank.
Good job with the culling! Well i guess doing a little every other day when you are up for it is an achievement on its own (looking at how massive your population is)



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I hardly ever see any newborns bit have about 100 juveniles? I think the mother shrimps release the shrimplets somewhere out of sight (makes sense) and they don't then move far from there until they are about 20% full size.

If you want more flow in the tank you can remove the spray bar section of that filter in the tank. I have 2 of those in my FISH tank set up (30L) with the air tube attached - mine came with both fittings. I have 2 of the same filters in the shrimp tank but using the spray bar as they don't want strong flow. I don't have any experience with the overhead filters. I will try and get a photo and attach it if I can, though the tank isn't great as it gets neglected...............

Really pleased to hear that everything is looking up and going better! Are you planning to keep shrimp in with the tetras, if you weren't planning on that you could just put any culls in there and they will be ok with the fish, make that tank more interesting and solve the cull problem of setting up a tank for them, or killing them?

Simon

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I hardly ever see any newborns bit have about 100 juveniles? I think the mother shrimps release the shrimplets somewhere out of sight (makes sense) and they don't then move far from there until they are about 20% full size.
If you want more flow in the tank you can remove the spray bar section of that filter in the tank. I have 2 of those in my FISH tank set up (30L) with the air tube attached - mine came with both fittings. I have 2 of the same filters in the shrimp tank but using the spray bar as they don't want strong flow. I don't have any experience with the overhead filters. I will try and get a photo and attach it if I can, though the tank isn't great as it gets neglected...............
Really pleased to hear that everything is looking up and going better! Are you planning to keep shrimp in with the tetras, if you weren't planning on that you could just put any culls in there and they will be ok with the fish, make that tank more interesting and solve the cull problem of setting up a tank for them, or killing them?
Simon
I wasnt actually intending to keep the shrimps with the tetras.
But i guess it could be feasible with what you suggested. The culls can go in there(with the tetras)
The main tank with lots of fire red babies will need looking into soon, they have grown and i can see they come in a myriad of colours.
Will open up another separate thread on culling by than as i have no experience in this area. (We can look forward to good discussions on that topic)
Weird now when i looked in the hospital tank that is holding the tetras temporarily for 2 months(took that long to setup their tank),
I could swear i put 12 of them in there, treated them with paraguard, now they are fabulous but when i count them, i can only see 9 of them???
I dont see dead bodies as well during my weekly maintainance of this tank. Wonder where the 3 of them went.

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By putting the 'ugly' shrimp in the tetra tank you won't be culling as such as they will be fine and still living a good life and still be helping keep the tank clean etc? The tetras MAY eat some tiny babies, but they have a chance they won't get eaten and they probably won't be a bright colour so can hide much better anyway.

Is there a cover on the temporary tetra tank as they may have leapt out. When I moved the piece of furniture my fish tank is on many years ago, I found a couple of dried neons! As you have a dog of coarse it may have eaten any evidence of any leapers??? My current tank has a cover so its not a problem. If you are keeping them in a dark uncovered bucket especially I would expect they would leap out? 

Simon

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      Hello folks, I remember reading about this a few years ago but for the life of me cannot find this info / thread again. Can somebody point me to a link for this info? I forgot the forum I saw it on. There was a discussion about how if you look at a shrimp molt shell under a microscope or loupe, sometimes you can see tiny "bugs" or whatever moving around inside. At that time, I think the conclusion was that maybe it was a symbiotic relationship because it even happened with healthy shrimp. But I can't remember if this occurred only in neocaridina or caridina also? I just happened to look at a shadow panda's (caridina) shell who is sick with the "shortened antenna disease" that I always complained about. There were tiny blue/black spots moving around inside.  I also looked at the molt shells of some blue bolts that don't have this problem, and there were very few, or none, spots moving around inside the molt shell. I wonder if this could be some symbiotic relationship gone wrong and is the actual (proximate) cause of the problem.  (Since antibiotics didn't really seem to work) In that case, I would need some kind of anti-parasite medication to cure the shrimps.  What are the typical internal anti-parasite medications for shrimps?
    • sdlTBfanUK
      You may end up losing this batch entirely but then you can start completely fresh and get the aquarium set up right for the next batch of shrimp! If you do any large water changes then try and add the new water slowly, either dripper or some other way. You should get yourself a TDS meter (as JayC above), they are cheap and readily available. You should always use a GH tester kit as well with shrimps, if you do the 50% water change that should halve the GH so you should get a reading after that, or if you can get a local fish store to test it for you that will give you an idea of the GH. If your water supply is as hard as it appears it may be you will need to mull over how (or even IF) you want to keep shrimps as that may mean using RO or distilled/bottled water and buying a proper shrimp specific remineraliser? That will be quite expensive but you won't then have to mess about adding crushed coral/eggshells etc, but only you can decide whether you want to do/spend that much etc? If you live somewhere that gets a lot of rain, then you can use rain water? Also, as JayC states, you need to know what you are using/adding to the water and aquarium, ie fertilizers, rocks. Unless you have very exotic plants you shouldn't need any fertilizers. Just as a note, we have come across quite a few experienced fish keeprs that have this sort of start off issues with shrimp. Shrimp are more difficult than fish, and the aquarium and water etc need to be ready and within the required parameters before getting the shrimps. Usually people jump in, get the shrimps before everything is ready/sorted. Hopefully though you will keep at it, or if this lot die you will have another go and we can help you get it sorted?
    • jayc
      These are all classic symptoms of shrimp moulting problems.   Again, another high GH symptom. High GH not only causes harder carapace (shell), but it also makes eggs harder. When the egg is harder the male finds it more difficult to fertilise the eggs.   That's a worry if you can't get a good GH reading because that is going to be most likely issue right now for you.   Because snails don't moult.    If you dont already have a TDS meter, I suggest getting one asap. It's another test to narrow down your water parameters, and not have to trust one test by it's own - in this case the GH test kit. I would wager your water parameter is too high in dissolved minerals - likely from the tap water source, fertiliser dosing and/or any rocks/crushed corals you might have in the tank. To remedy this, you need to start doing water changes with RO, distilled or rain water immediately. I would do a 50% water change with RO water asap. Then look for sources that increase GH in the tank and eliminate it - fertilisers, rocks, crush corals, shells.    It's difficult to save a shrimp who's carapace is already too hard, but hopefully any younger shrimps will benefit from the water change and the reduced GH.   Good luck and keep us updated.
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