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This is a topic which has been discussed at length in this house over the years between friends and I but would appreciate any feedback from others. Is it better to buy from a fish/aquarium shop or better to buy on-line through the post? There is a bit of cross over which we will get to as well, ie from a shop through the post? Bear in mind this is my thoughts from here in the UK where it is obviously easy enough to get delivery next day as UK is a lot smaller than other countries and that needs to be taken into account. BUYING FROM A GENERAL PET, FISH & AQUARIUM SHOP This is where I got my first cherry shrimps and these didn't do well, though a lot of that would be down to me not knowing what I was doing back then, it was my first aquarium ever. Shrimps will go from a breeder/expert probably keeping them in ideal parameters, to the general shop where they will probably be kept in not ideal parameters usually, if they are kept in tanks all linked together with the other fish etc, this is how it seems to be done over here anyway? Even if they are is a separate rack of just shrimps they are usually linked together and therefore in the same water even though the different types have different parameter requirements! If they survive that then they will go from the shop parameters to the purchasers tank parameters which I am assuming are ideal parameters similar to the breeders. Therefore the shrimp have probably had to adjust twice to different water and been moved twice in quick succession so no wonder they get stressed and don't do well! BUYING FROM A SHRMP SPECIALIST STORE This one probably has the greatest number of variables. If you are buying through the post then the same as the above 'pet, fish ad aquarium store' applies but is likely to not have the water parameter differences (it shouldn't anyway) but if they get them from a breeder there are still the 2 steps/moves. If they breed their own then there is one move less so that should be better and similar to 'buying from a hobbyist' as below. BUYING FROM A HOBBYIIST ONLINE I have done this about 10 times in the past via ebay (next day by 1pm delivery) and not had a problem with any, not a single dead shrimp dead on arrival. If the hobbyist is selling shrimps that they have bred, they almost certainly know what they are doing and the parameters etc are likely to be good/perfect, and these only face the one trip and need to adapt to a very slight change in parameters if the purchasers know what they are doing and therefore have similar parameters to the sellers. What do others feel about this topic as I would very much like to know, even/especially if they disagree? Simon

I only know of two types of rock that is guaranteed to not impact water parameters - slate and scoria volcanic rocks. Skip rocks as decorative pieces in the tank if your aim is to keep shrimp. Instead use lots of drift wood and leaves for a more natural look. Your shrimp will thank you for it.

Yes. Do that. That just creates water parameters with a lower pH, which doesn't suit Neos. So it's not really solving the problem. Fertilisers will add to the TDS count. Just so you know. That's a good practice. But did you test the water they came in? At least test TDS. That will tell you how well or poorly the shrimp were kept in. As an example my LFS keeps shrimp in water that is 400+ TDS. IF I bought those shrimp, they would die in my tanks where water is closer to their ideal parameters just from the huge sudden change. 1-2 hours wouldn't be enough. In this example, I would drip until 300 TDS, leave for 1 hour without further dripping, then drip again till 200 TDS, leave for 1 hour again, then drip till 150TDS and leave for another hour before introducing them into my tank. That's about 6 hours. So the new shrimp are in a container with an air stone and have long enough to acclimate to the new water. Needless to say, I don't buy shrimp from my LFS anymore. It might sound like paranoia, but when you buy shrimps that can cost a few hundred dollars, I want to make sure they survive! ? Fish and coral can handle way faster acclimation, so don't compare them to shrimp.

As per JayC I don't think any of the listed 'problems' would cause shrimps to be dying off and the parameters look pretty good to me! I'm not sure about the fertilizer though as some have ingredients that are dangerous to shrimps (ie copper etc). I have never used any fertilizers and plants grow really well and fast and lush, I am always having to give away to friends. Maybe try not dosing fertilizer and see if that makes any difference? I had a quick look and that fertilizer does say it is shrimp safe though??? If you are using that in other shrimp tanks and not having any problems I guess it can't be that? I would carry on using the SS gh/kh+ you have as the parameters look ok to me, very similar to my Betta tank which has red cherry shrimps and soil substrate, though I use tap water plus gh/kh+. I had the same battle with the soil trying to reduce the PH and the gh/kh+ (and tap water) increasing the PH to start with, but it didn't take long for the soil to get exhausted of its buffering ability (as JayC states) and it never caused any problems to any fish/shrimp/plants etc while it was buffering or settling either. It will be a shame to remove the lovely rock, I had some geodes that increased the PH in my taiwan bee tank so I had to remove that! In my tank, it went from 5.5 to 7.5 though it was over a year or more and amazingly my taiwan bees were perfectly happy in PH7.5 as I guess they had slowly adapted as the PH slowly increased over a long period? I had assumed you knew about acclimatising shrimps as you say you have a few shrimp tanks. As you say though, you may just have bought weak/unhealthy shrimp and that may be a part of the problem? Hopefully there has been enough here to be of some help (and not too much to confuse)! Simon

The dragon stone (ohko) is not incompatible with shrimp. To test stone compatibility with shrimp: make sure it does not fizz when you put a strong acid on it. Then let it soak in pure RO water for a day and check if the TDS rises. IF it does, then your stone is leeching something, and you need to take it out. If you use SS GH/KH and remineralize to GH 7 or 8, the TDS should be around 160 or so. In your case, you can buy SS GH only and use that to make your water. For now, you can also mix in some of the GH/KH so the change is not sudden. Eventually, you will have a pH of mid 6's. Maybe mix in a small amount of the GH/KH so you have kH near 1 and pH upper 6's. Cherry and neo shrimp can live in these conditions, but might need some specific food supplementation. I had neos living in these conditions for several months, (over) feeding with a variety of foods, but when I reduced feeding to have them live off the tank biofilm, they died in a few weeks. A big KH change is tough on neos, so even a slow acclimation might not be slow enough. You can also swap out your substrate. There are other brown, round pellet type substrates that are a hard-fired clay which you can't crush with your hands, and they won't change the water parameters either.

Welcome @Aradene. Sounds like you are in for some fun adventures soon. Keep us in the loop and maybe we can help you avoid some traps / pit falls.

The quality and price of the shrimps you have got so far way outweighs any 'getting through the post' advantages by a log way! It is worth the risk/gamble at those prices and such great colour/quality! Hope the chiller is still working well, it is so autumnal here I can't even think about getting a chiller at this stage, only 20 degrees indoors...... Simon

There is no way to buy online in Hong Kong, Hong Kong does not have a online market compare to the UK, US or Australia for live stock, So we only rely on specialist store or just a ordinary store, specialist store is Hong Kong demand high prices for shrimps. The advantage of getting them from a normal shop in Hong Kong, you get to choose what you want and they are very cheap, I can get good quality CRS with full color, and solid red for only 10GBP for 20 shrimps, I don't think you can get shrimps this cheap at a bargain price.

Your last line is a subject that has been much discussed in this house over the years, is it better to get shrimp through the post or at a shop? Bear in mind I am UK based so anywhere in this country can send next day before 1pm as we don't have the huge expanses of land between places! Actually I will do a separate thread on this as it is a different topic? Simon

Ok. A wealth of knowledge here! Thanks for all The help. The fertilizer has only been used the last 2-3 weeks( that’s new), so I don’t think that’s driving my TDS up, not like this anyway. I suppose I have to yank this rock, which isn’t a huge deal. Could someone suggest a good online source for rock that’s more compatible. Option are limited locally and I don’t want to go through the pain of ordering rock online 5 different times to get one that will pass the acid test. Thanks! Lastly, I’ll likely be don’t with buying shrimp locally, looks like I’ll be trying an online order in the future as I’ve been mulling over that option.

Completely glanced over it. That's a good idea. Tip - If you have a tank that is too big ... there is no need to completely fill the tank all the way up. Shrimp only need a shallow pool of water, but you just need to make sure your filer inlets have enough water to be underwater.

Thank you! We're actually pretty lucky here in Melbourne that our water has a naturally low PH and is really soft, so I'm hoping by the time I have the new tank set up and cycled I'll be able to get something a little more exotic (I really like the orange eyed tiger shrimp) but haven't really set my heart in any one direction yet. Knowing my history I'll end up with several tanks on the go and panic when it comes time to move.

Spongy was given a 250L tank with 2 holes in the bottom??? Simon

Acclimation is always a drip for everything. Till water matches tank, takes a while but I have great success this way. I mirror acclimation with my coral process. Usually takes 1-2 hours. taking the dragon stone out will help? Guess the dragon stone is coming out! Thanks. So yank the stone, and stick with the current substrate and SS for Neocards? Could I swap to the remineralize that’s only for GH+? The tank gets a small squirt of Easy Green fertilizer from Aquarium Co-Op once a week( maybe 1/2 -1mL).

The stone. What else do you add to the tank? Apart from food and Salty Shrimp GH/KH+ ? It's too late now. Fluval Stratum is good for Bee shrimps like Crystal Reds, or Taiwan Bees, as it lowers the pH. Salty shrimp GH/KH+ remineralises the RO water AND also increases pH - suitable for Cherry shrimps. As Beanbag pointed out you have the substrate competing with the Salty Shrimp GH/KH. Since you have Cherry shrimps, stick with the SS GH/KH+, it will have to compete with the substrate until the Fluval buffering runs out.

Yep, the Dragon Stone is causing that. But apart from 250 TDS, which shouldn't be that high that it would kill shrimps off, there might be other factors. Tell us exactly how you added the new shrimp. What was your acclimation process? The next time you buy any new shrimp or fish, always, ALWAYS test the water that they come in to find out how wildly different it might be to the water you are introducing them to. If the difference is big, acclimation needs to be more than just floating the bag in the tank to get temps up to equilibrium - it needs to have water dripped into the bag until parameters match your tank water closely. That can take anywhere from 1hour to 12hours depending on the difference in the water parameters. Dragonstones are great for hard water fish, but not so much for Tetras and shrimps. I know you have probably invested in those stones, so someone telling you not to use them might not sound like the best advise. Just don't throw them away, you might be able to use them in the future (like when your tank matures, and pH starts falling too low). But for now, try taking them out, and we can see what the tank parameters fall back to.

Ok. So I can’t use SS. What should I be using to remineralize? And the RO is at 2 TDS without SS added, what else could I be missing?! What else could be causing TDS to be so high?

Fluval stratum is active substrate and tries to have pH less than 7 while absorbing KH. It is not compatible with SS GH/KH which tries to have pH mid-upper 7's. Also, your TDS is too high for RO + SS - there must be something else in the water

Yes simon i think 4 tank setup ??

Yep its been hot recently, about 29-35 degree celcius, most of my shrimps died before I got the new DIY chiller, but the new chiller is working great now, temperature of the water now is maintained at 25-26, Previous I have been turning my A/C on time to time when I see the water temperature reach about 28-29 degree celcius with the old chiller. Now the new chiller is working good with no support from the A/C.

Welcome! Are you planning to keep shrimps in the large aquascape tank in addition to the 50L or are you going to close that old one down. I assume you are planning on using so if you are getting into aquascaping and I use that in my tanks whether they hold cherry shrimp (what you have) or Bee shrimps. The soil will make the water perfect for bee shrimps but cherry shrimps are much tougher and adaptable than bee shrimp so as long as you slowly acclimatise over a long period you shouldn't have any problems. In fact I dumped a load of culls into a new tank thinking they would be eaten by the fish and they survived with no acclimatising (not even temperature matching) into a tank with a lower PH than is ideal due to new soil substrate, I am not recommending this though! Hope it all goes well and hopefully we may see some photos soon! Simon