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I agree ineke. A really top quality A grade beats them all IMO.

I have some F8 Golden / Snow white Mischlings that I have left to breed together because I don't have any TB for them. I have two tanks and tried to separate the whites from the goldens. The Whites have given me some very nice Bluebolt TBMM. So question 1 is the siblings of these BB's are white Mischling but are they now F1 or are they no longer classed as Mischling- what do I describe them as? I know they can't be F9 as they would have had to be bred back to TB. JayC had written quite an extensive write up of F numbers but I'm not sure that this scenario was covered. Question 2 is the Golden F8 to Golden F8 have given me some decidedly reddish shrimp -like the BB but red. I haven't actually seen a Red Bolt in the flesh so to speak but I'm pretty sure they are Red bolt TBMM -is that possible? They aren't the sharp red of CRS. I know the original female White Mischlings I had were from BB breeding so I can understand the BB side . I also understand that the Goldens come from CRS or Red TB. Given that my line has started throwing up Red Tibees - I have used some Goldens in that breeding too - is it possible they carry Red Bolt gene? I have shown some pictures of the ? RR Tibee ? RR TBMM that have started popping up in my Red Tibee x Mischling lines so I'm guessing the answer must be yes ? I haven't really researched the Red Bolts as they have never really interested me but having a number of "red goldens " showing up has me intrigued and just wanting confirmation . In the end it doesn't matter as most of my stock stay with me anyway but it would be good to know how to describe them. Any thoughts? Genetics are just not my thing unfortunately. I'm off to catch a few and post a picture later.I will try and get some picures but I don't know if it will show up on the camera- my BB are quite dark but don't look it on camera- I really need to learn to use my camera properly!! These are the RR TBMM ?Tibee that popped up in the Tibee Mischling tank This is one of the BB TBMM there are quite a few others much darker but couldn't get a decent picture - I need to catch them and put them against a white back ground

Yeah I have the same kind of experience. The will so the crazy dance for a few hours (Seriously fustrating since they are in a limited space and usually we can spot the special lady). After the mating they girl will go into a hiding spot and by the next time I see her she would have been berried (usually the next morning).

Unfortunately you aren't the first and wont be the last. I have been bitten but thats what makes this site so important. The knowledge on this site compared to a lot of others is fantastic and is of benefit to all. I have kept shrimp for a few years now and learnt a lot the hardway as probably a lot of others here have as well. Grading has and I think will continue to always be an issue. I have seen this exact thing going on since I first started keeping shrimp. And again I think that this is the value of this site and the shrimp sale rules that have been put in place. I like your idea Disciple. I use ebay and believe that the feedback/reputation I have earned as a seller and buyer have benefited me.

I was thinking something like the "like" button for posts. I agree giving the option of leaving feedback leaves room for some manipulation of the system. If you keep it to positive reinforcement is probably the way to go. if you purchase the shrimp and the service was good you press the "like" button but for example in 6 month if you bought high grade CRS shrimp and they breed and you get tibees you can remove the like. If you had bad service you don't click the like button. or you can call it "Buyer Rep" So good seller will have a lot of likes.

From my (short) own experience: 1: 10 to 6 hours before 2: after 3: within 24 hours

Kinda funny that most people in Germany don't like them anymore. Don't know why, but they are not popular. Also as far as I know, the smiley is the 'end station' according to patterns. I believe you cannot create other patterns from a Smiley group. When talking about smiley K14, this is what I have in mind:

Cheers. Draft classification poster is up too: http://shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/index.php/topic/8621-caridina-logemanni-classification-poster/?p=103074