Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
petfish

mischlings and Tibee

Recommended Posts

jayc

We need to resolve this misunderstanding of filial generation numbering.

 

This is one definition of Filial generation:

Definitions:
1. the offspring of a genetically specified mating: first filial generation (symbol F1), the offspring of parents of contrasting genotypes; second filial generation (F2), the offspring of two F1 individuals; third filial generation (F3), fourth filial generation (F4), etc., the offspring in succeeding generations of continued inbreeding of F1 descendents.

 

Notice the word inbreeding?

 

Here is another definition of 2nd Filial generation:

Definition of F2 GENERATION

: the generation produced by interbreeding individuals of an F1 generation and consisting of individuals that exhibit the result of recombination and segregation of genes controlling traits for which stocks of the P1 generation differ—called also second filial generation

 

Again notice the word interbreeding?

 

 

And another definition:

Offspring generation. F1 is the first offspring or filial generation; F2 is the second; and so on. Successive generations of progeny in a controlled series of crosses, starting with two specific parents (the P generation) and selfing or intercrossing the progeny of each new (F1; F2; . . . ) generation.

 

Again selfing or Intercrossing.

 

 

You can look it up yourselves to see that - Which ever definition, which ever source, you will always get the same or similar definition.

Filial generations are only counted down the line from parents (P) to offspring, and the interbreeding amongst the Parents and the brother & sister offsprings.

 

The moment you introduce an individual from a different Parent (and thus genealogy), you can't continue counting the Filial number.

 

So while an F4 Tibee X another F4 Tibee of a different parent produces a Tibee 100%, it is no longer an F4 Tibee. The offspring of two different F4 has different genetics now and has to be an F1 again.

 

IF you get two related brother and sister F4 Tibees who share the same P (initial parents), then yes ... it's offspring will be an F5 Tibee.

 

post-599-0-00326500-1412300847_thumb.jpg

 

In this example above, F2 from parents a (F2a) crossed with F2 from parents b (F2b) will result in offspring F1 with common parents ab. 

 

Yes, it's the 3rd generation, and it's still the same type of shrimp as the parents P1 or P2.

But it's no longer an F2 or an F3. 

 

Filial generation is not the same as a Family tree or Generational tree.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke

I think a light bulb just went on in my head thank you Jayc. I can now see where the confusion has entered into this debate.  :goodjob:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc

: MIAO :  woohoo!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke

Seriously though thanks- I have struggled with this for months and you have just explained it so easily- the pictures help too! please make a sticky !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc

This picture has been included in the separate "terminology" thread.

Edited by jayc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OzShrimp

So for someone that doesnt breed mischlings minshlings etc etc, how do you keep up with what number you are at exactly if their in the one tank.

 

For Example if 2 F1's breed and you hyperthetically get 10 F2 shrimplets and 5 of them grow up to breed F3's however the other 5 F2's are delayed in breeding and end up breeding with the F3 offpsring.

 

 

So theoretically some of your F2's breed with your F3's how do you guys personally keep track of your number and if this happens does this revert your shrimplets from them back to an F1 even though they still come from the same parents.

 

if that makes sense, do you need alot of tanks to segregate each of the F drops to maintain what number you are at ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
petfish

more tank's LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Must Read SKF Articles

  • Join Our Community!

    Register today, ask questions and share your shrimp and fish tank experiences with us!

  • Posts

    • sdlTBfanUK
      You're doing fine so carry on as you are until you feel the cycle is done. My normal schedule is 10%water change every week however I don't think you need to do any while the cycle is going on until/unless the nitrates or ammonia get too high, or the PH gets too low. The lower the Ph the slower the bacteria reproduce! As you only have 2 shrimps they won't be messing the water enough anyway at this stage, I hope they are still doing well? Can you take a lower resolution photo, or reduce the photo size on a computer? If you want to email it to me I can reduce it for you lavissimon@gmail.com - I had to do it often in the past.. Simon
    • Brando
      Ok I will continue to add fluval cycle every other day starting today. I have a piece of driftwood I could add which will lower ph too. Should I only water change once a week? Also, I have 3 java ferns, some small almond leaves, and driftwood. I can’t upload a picture due to size.
    • Crabby
      Do you have plants in the tank? And sorry for asking multiple times, but can you send a photo of the tank through so we can see the setup? 
    • jayc
      Yes, just right.   That's good news. It looks like there is some bacteria in the tank and it's processing the ammonia. Nitrates are building up however, but that can be reduced with water changes. Continue using the Fluval Cycle at every water change, ie. weekly. Just keep working on reducing the pH slowly.    
    • sdlTBfanUK
      That temperature is perfect! The wood and any Indian Almond leaves will be a slow (and that is what you want) PH reduction. It looks to be going well, the main thing is to change things very slowly if everything is otherwise ok! If the shrimp are active and investigating that is a good sign! Simon
×
×
  • Create New...