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mischlings and Tibee

petfish

By petfish
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petfish Shrimp Lover

petfish

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TB x CRS or CBS = mischling , if those mischling's are crossed over a oebt or blonde tiger = Tibee. is this correct.????

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ineke Shrimp Guru

ineke

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To get your first F1 Tibee you cross a TB with a Tiger = Tibee. These are then crossed back to the Tiger or the TB giving F2 . I'm not sure what happens to the F number when a Mischling is thrown into the mix but as you want to end up with Pintos you need to keep crossing back the Tibees to the TB because Pintos need the intense colouring the TB gives. Throwing Mischlings into the mix would dilute what you are after. However if you just want fancy Tibees with different patterns and not going down the Pinto track then I think Mischlings and Crystals would be OK but really you should stick to the TB.

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petfish Shrimp Lover

petfish

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mmmmm, now i'm confused as i was told...M x Tiger then back over Tiger then back over mischling makes them F3 Tibee

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Squiggle Shrimp Guru

Squiggle

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Actually you are both, in a way, correct. Tibee is is a word that came from Tiger x Bee shrimp & Bee Shrimp are any Taiwan Bees, CRS, CBS, even Golden Bees or Snow Whites. So in a way I guess Mischlings are a Bee shrimp too. :thumbsu:

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Ace027 Shrimp Lover

Ace027

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And there is also Tai-Tibee, where you cross a Tibee to a Taiwan Bee... too make it more confusing :)

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ineke Shrimp Guru

ineke

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Thanks for pointing that out Squiggs. When I've asked in the past I was told TB only and now this opens up my breeding program's because I have some very nice males that aren't PURE TB that I might be able to put to some of my female Tibees.

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jayc Shrimp Guru

jayc

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There seems to be a lot of confusion on this topic.

Someone needs to write an article once and for all that can be a sticky thread.

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ineke Shrimp Guru

ineke

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That would be great. I also think that the thoughts on Tibee breeding have changed somewhat from when they first came on the scene and were a closely guarded secret! It's a bit like the Pinto breeding was even just a few months ago. It would be great to have up to date breeding info available to us all. 

When I got my first Tibees they were given on the strict understanding that I didn't breed with them -they were all supposed to be males anyway but I had a female in the mix and she berried before I realised. Within weeks of getting them the Tibees were showing up all over the place- we had our first Tibee auction at that time so i was allowed to start using them.But they were all Tiger to TB back then. 

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jayc Shrimp Guru

jayc

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Ok.

I'm drafting something.

 

But I just realised something ... I don't know what a Tibee x Mischling is ???

Anyone?

 

What do you call a Tibee crossed with a Mischling? (pariah? LOL)

Is this hybrid advisable?

Or is this diluting the genes too much?

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jayc Shrimp Guru

jayc

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:lol:

 

Tibee crossed with a Mischling must be a "no go" zone.

Don't even try it, as you'd revert back to a wild type shrimp.

 

 

<edit> - Actually, come to think of it, Tibee X Mischling might be used as gene carriers, as Petfish mentions below.

You'd use it to crossbreed back with a pure breed.

 

But I still don't know what the term is for a Tibee X Mischling.

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petfish Shrimp Lover

petfish

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Not Tibee x Mischling , Mischling x tigerpost-846-0-24401000-1412228136_thumb.jpgthis is Mischling x tiger then back over tiger then back over Mischling now f3 actually F4 when you count the origanal 2 x's which were PANDA x TIGER and KK x CBS .i believe the TIGER used was a OEBT.

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petfish Shrimp Lover

petfish

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To get your first F1 Tibee you cross a TB with a Tiger = Tibee. These are then crossed back to the Tiger or the TB giving F2 . I'm not sure what happens to the F number when a Mischling is thrown into the mix but as you want to end up with Pintos you need to keep crossing back the Tibees to the TB because Pintos need the intense colouring the TB gives. Throwing Mischlings into the mix would dilute what you are after. However if you just want fancy Tibees with different patterns and not going down the Pinto track then I think Mischlings and Crystals would be OK but really you should stick to the TB.

. It was started with TB x Tiger Edited by petfish
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petfish Shrimp Lover

petfish

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i am still finding this confusing but will attemt to explain what i have, it appears they are f4 not f3, originally panda x tiger = Tibee at the same time          KK x CBS = mischlings the Tibee's were then x'ed over the Mischling's, then the shrimp from that x were put back over the tiger, the shrimp from that x were then put back over the mischling ...and that is what i have now ,the shrimp from the last x = f4 shown in the pic above ^^^^^ the original KK and Panda came from Dean when he owned Boss Aquaria.......

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jayc Shrimp Guru

jayc

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Actually, come to think of it, Tibee X Mischling might be used as gene carriers, as Petfish mentions.
You'd use it to crossbreed back with a pure breed. With it, will come dominant and recessive genes.

But I still don't know what the term is for a Tibee X Mischling.

 

Waiting on this before I post the draft article.

Edited by jayc
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Daydream Shrimp Lover

Daydream

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To my understanding the f system was used for fish as a way to determine how many generation from wild caught stock.And has now been applied to shrimp.Fist thing, is this was used for pure breed fish not hybreeds as tigerbees are but you can adapt it to do so.

One thing you have to have clear is what is the hybreed .Lets say tibee ,being a tiger x bee shrimp. 

Ok tiger being any pure tiger no matter what colour and bee shrimp no matter what type.

So TB CRS CBS GOLDEN OR MINSHLING ARE ALL BEE SHRIMP.

And BLUE BLONDE BLACK OR ORANGE EYE ARE ALL TIGERS.

Thuss every gen crossed with any combo of the above would add to the f number as long as one of the pair was a tibee.

EG /CBS X BLUE TIGER=TIBEE F1

       TIBEE F1XTIBEE F1=TIBEE F2

       TIBEE F1Xany bee shrimp=F2

       TIBEE F1X any tiger shrimp=F2

and so on and so on the only way this would change is if you added another breed of shrimp.Then the process would start again

with a new seiries of f numbers with the Addition of being able to breed any combo of the 3 SP involved.

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ineke Shrimp Guru

ineke

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Daydream if that works for F1 Tibee x F1 Tibee = F2 Tibee why is it that if you breed an lets Say F 4 Mischling x F4 Mischling the F number goes back to F1?. This is where it gets so confusing - I'm asking because I really don't know the answer but if the F number goes up for Tibees surely it must for Mischlings yet we keep getting told the babies go back to to F1.

Hopefully we can get this all sorted with this thread . Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I think there must be lots of us with tanks full of male Mischlings which we have been told are virtually worthless in any of our breeding programs - at least this is what has been said in the past on the forum.

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Daydream Shrimp Lover

Daydream

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Yes there needs to be a definite clarifacation made but the diff between breeding tb minshling with minshling is the % of tb not getting higher but,but saying that your % is not going back either so in my opinionF4tbminshling x tbF4minshling you are still at F4 as you are noy gaining or loosing % of tb gene. With tibee x tibee % is still 100% and crossing tibee with minshling or any other bee shrimp you get 100% tibee and tibee cross tiger 100% tibee as they are a hybreed.

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jayc Shrimp Guru

jayc

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EG /CBS X BLUE TIGER=TIBEE F1

       TIBEE F1XTIBEE F1=TIBEE F2

       TIBEE F1Xany bee shrimp=F2

       TIBEE F1X any tiger shrimp=F2

 

 

 

Don't forget also Tibee F1 X CBS or BLUE TIGER Parent = F2.

 

But 

TIBEE F1Xany bee shrimp=F2

TIBEE F1X any tiger shrimp=F2

would not be the same genealogy anymore. The Filial number would go back to F1.

 

Draw it as a picture. Start with two shrimp, the parents. The offspring is connected to the parents. 

As soon as a shrimp is added that is not linked to either parents or offspring, the Filial number starts again.

 

F4 Mischling from one parent X with another F4 Mischling from a different set of parents also go back to F1.

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Daydream Shrimp Lover

Daydream

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Yes different gene pool but still tibee 100% as any cross of the given sp would result in a tibee.AS with the tb even if from different parents the % of tb is f4 no gain no loss.

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ineke Shrimp Guru

ineke

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This is where it gets hard for those of us that aren't so understanding of genetics. I can't get my head around why the Mischling x Mischling goes back to the start as in F1 . In my thoughts they would stay static at what ever F number they are as Daydream stated F4 xF4 = F 4 . But I accept whatever the forum in general puts forward once we have sorted it - hopefully we can!

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