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newbreed

Mischling Genetics/Breeding query

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newbreed

Hey there,

Just wondering about mischlings and breeding.

If you have an F4 mischling that has come from RW and KK breeding stock, if you were to cross with a BB is there any chance of getting BB shrimplets?

Seeing as no BB genetic material is present. Or does all TB genetics have the same base?

Would I need to breed with RW or KK to get TB shrimplets?

Hope you can help......

Cheers,

JC

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hoang1912

As I know, if u breed F4 from RW or KK parents with BB, u have a change to have F5, RW, KK also BB.

And ur F5 have genes of RW,KK and BB. Correct if I am wrong ;)

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newbreed

Similar to what I was thinking, just wanted to confirm.

Cheers

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MrShrimp

In my opinion, only Dean or Marcus can give you an answer from there experience.

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2OFUS
In my opinion' date=' only Dean or Marcus can give you an answer from there experience.[/quote']

......+1

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KiwiBigD

What Hoang said is correct, however the numbers of BB will be minimal by comparison. The dominant I would expect to be Pandas and Red Wine due to mixed genes, plus F5s as well.

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newbreed

My main concern/thought was that there has been no BB crossed to them in the past, so don't quite understand how they can throw BB babies....

Unless all TB carry the same base genes and immediate parent contributes enough genetically to produce phenotypically similar young.

If not, next generation (F5) would have genetic traits to cross back, for a small amount of TB young.

Just a brainstorm and a need for understanding before trying a breeding setup.

;)

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KiwiBigD
If you have an F4 mischling that has come from RW and KK breeding stock' date=' if you were to cross with a BB is there any chance of getting BB shrimplets?

Seeing as no BB genetic material is present. Or does all TB genetics have the same base?[/quote']

I'm confused, you say here that you have F4 from RW and KK genes, you then cross that with a BB (I'm assuming Blue Bolt) so you're adding 50% genetics of

BB to a cross. From this lot I would expect to get RW, KK (Low Numbers), Pandas (High Numbers by comparison), RR (Very Slim Chance) and Blue Bolts as you

have said you are crossing the F4 with a BB.

TB = Taiwan Bee = All of the King Kong, Ruby Red, Panda, Wine Red, Ruby Red, Blue Bolt and Red Bolt family, they're all TBs.

Or am I missing something in your opening statement?

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Squiggle

Also with the panda genes x BB genes you're quite likely to get shadow pandas as well :encouragement:

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Sprae

F4 mischlings (which I got from Dean) will have all TW variants plus more mischlings. For what I can see pandas and RW are more predominant from Dean's tanks. BB is possible just rare.

I agree that Dean and Marcus will have the best experience to enlighten us...

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JonX
Also with the panda genes x BB genes you're quite likely to get shadow pandas as well :encouragement:

That's what I want to achieve! Shadows! BOOM!

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Squiggle

Me too dude, shadow KK would look sick! Or imagine a shadow WR :victorious:

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newbreed
I'm confused' date=' you say here that you have F4 from RW and KK genes, you then cross that with a BB (I'm assuming Blue Bolt) so you're adding 50% genetics of

BB to a cross. From this lot I would expect to get RW, KK (Low Numbers), Pandas (High Numbers by comparison), RR (Very Slim Chance) and Blue Bolts as you

have said you are crossing the F4 with a BB.

TB = Taiwan Bee = All of the King Kong, Ruby Red, Panda, Wine Red, Ruby Red, Blue Bolt and Red Bolt family, they're all TBs.

Or am I missing something in your opening statement?[/quote']

@KiwiBigD - Sorry for the abbreviations. You have read them all correctly though. I have some mischlings from Bluebolts and he has said they are f4 from Wine Reds and King Kong. Thanks for your suggested breakdown of potential offspring.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. Am happy to see what Marcus and Dean have to say when they get a chance.

Cheers

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BlueBolts

What pressure ! Can ONLY share my experience. TB's can breed true, i.e. BBxBB=100% BB. My BB's are atleast F5+, and breed 99% true, ONLY had 2 panda's since F2's. MY KK & WR colony were selectively bred individually for 2-3 generations, but I decided recently to X them to each other, plus with some BB's to strengthen their genetic strength. Within the next few weeks/month, I will separate them again to their individual "type", and breed them TRUE. I've rarely use mishlings now, and will ONLY add 2-3 F4+ mishlings over every two generation, just to add genetic strength.

So...... like most living creatures, it all depends on the historic genetics of the parents. If WR (F3+ breeding TRUE) x KK (F3+ breeding TRUE), it's juvis would be a combo of WR & KK....No BB..theoritically, but possibility would be there if the previous F series had BB genetics. Similar to CRS x CRS, depending on it's history, some CBS or GB may pop up....but once you've got a CRS (F3+ breeding TRUE) x CRS (F3+ breeding TRUE), then the likelihood of a CBS or GB popping up decreases, and theoretically heading towards the PRL status (F50+ LOL).

Thus it is critical to know & trust your breeder. For example, if you're on a selective program, and trying to get say pinto's, and you need a PURE BB (i.e. breeding TRUE) for your next phase, BUT got a BB from a mishling parent, or KK/WR...etc, then the intro of the BB will throw your selective program, totally OFF the rails. I don't sell any TB's off mishling's, any TB's I get goes into a tank and once I get them to F2+, then the group goes back into my TB colony, or I use them for my Tiger X breeding program.

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hoang1912

Wa la, too many thing to think and confusing. That's y I am not ready for Tb yet :))

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KillieOrCory

Thank you everybody for your contributions to this post and newbreed for starting the thread. What is written is what I thought was possible in breeding genetics of these shrimp.

My goal is going to be to set up pure colonies of each like Marcus. Next few years is going to be fun :)

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JonX

So if youve ever got shrimo off marcus youre getting the best bloodlines in Australia. Money well spent! :)

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newbreed

Great information BB, many thanks. It was as I thought, no prior bb genes, so no bb potential. Great to know, you are a legend for sharing your experience, cheers.

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newbreed

My goal is going to be to set up pure colonies of each like Marcus. Next few years is going to be fun :)

I agree, will be a lot of fun and a few dollars too! :)

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Squiggle
My goal is going to be to set up pure colonies of each like Marcus. Next few years is going to be fun :)

+2 Agree, I'm getting very excited to have my rack finished & start playing around with some pure TB's & some crosses to see what comes out :encouragement: The next tank system will be setup to try & do PRL's, very exciting :victorious:

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izzy
I don't sell any TB's off mishling's' date=' any TB's I get goes into a tank and once I get them to F2+, then the group goes back into my TB colony, or I use them for my Tiger X breeding program.[/quote']

excuse my noobie question here and correct me if I'm wrong. F2+ will be from a pure TB male X with TB mischlings?

Still learning :)

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hoang1912

Mis + tb = F1 then F1 + tb = F2 then F2 + tb = F3 and so on :encouragement:

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newbreed
excuse my noobie question here and correct me if I'm wrong. F2+ will be from a pure TB male X with TB mischlings?

Still learning :)

Hey Izzy,

I can't speak for Bluebolts, but I understood his quote to mean F2+ being second generation BB x BB.

First generation is F1

Second generation is F2

and so on.

And Hoang is correct to in the world of Mischlings too, as detailed above.

Cheers

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izzy
Mis + tb = F1 then F1 + tb = F2 then F2 + tb = F3 and so on :encouragement:

Thanks Hoang. So all F2+ will be pure TB?

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Squiggle
Mis + tb = F1 then F1 + tb = F2 then F2 + tb = F3 and so on :encouragement:

F numbers aren't just for mishlings, it is a generally used term for generations, ie if you buy a pair of shrimp or fish etc that you are not sure of their genetics & breed them, the offspring if F1, the if you breed the offspring together then their offspring will be F2 etc

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