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fishmosy

White cherry

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fishmosy

Spotted this shrimp amongst my cherry horde. Weird thing is the colouration comes from inside the shrimp, not on/in the carapace.

Note the colouration isn't eggs extending from the saddle to the tail as it extends right through from rostrum to tail.

heard shrimps going white can be a sign of disease but it hasn't died and all shrimp in the tank look good.

What do you think?

CBC0FEC1-7D34-4E8B-B05D-27E3A28CFB54-347-000000DA0E2EB237.jpg25173965-0F15-42C3-87E8-15400D8D4A37-347-000000D9FBDD95E6.jpg2EF2E870-294B-463F-A4EF-2AB038493A98-347-000000DA045BF1D7.jpg

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BlueBolts

Difficult to tell, any chance for a macro. Definitely worth observing.

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Shrimpdream

Put in the breeding box bro. That shrimp only can live months or two. That is a type infraction .it wan't kill you shrimp fast it take longtime make shrimp to dead.and it won't pass to other shrimp but when the this shrimp dead other shrimp eat it may pass to other shrimp. I being keep cherry 4 or 5 years I have seen few of this .

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NoGi

Interesting. I found a white one in my tank yesterday while grabbing some yellows for another member here. Mine is only a juvi but juvi's of similar size are showing yellow whilst this is still fairly white. Waiting for it to mature and I'll take some macro's if the colur stays.

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tangfreak

i to have one like this ,mite just be a thro back???

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smicko

I have a few of these white cherries. some seem more yellow than white and i have noticed a red tiger stripe pattern on one of themsorry about the dodgy pic

20130108_191951_zpsc591a4ac.jpg

Cheers Mick

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northboy

It is doomed, I am lead to believe it is a parasite, not to contagious but don't let it die in the tank.

It seams to show up after the shrimp has been stressed, usually heat with the ones I have seen.

Bob

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smicko

Thanks bob. I have had them separated since I seen them. I have found 6 of them in a pond I emptied so heat could be an issue. Should I cull them or just leave them? And how long will they live if I don't. Also do you have a name for the parasite as I would like to do some research.

Cheers Mick

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northboy

Hi Mick I was not given the name but I will ask and asking takes time (government).

Mine lived for months, I did knock off a few to send away, not much is known in this country about it, you might get lucky on a OS forum?

It did not have any effect on the shrimp that I could see except white, apparently it is tissue death ????. Who knows but it did not transfer to some I added to the later (not recommended)

I know in certain wild populations of shrimp there is a summer die off and they go white before dieing??

Bob

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Baccus

Speaking of natural wild population die offs I caught this white (diseased) shrimp in one of my creeks.

P1030880.jpgP1030866.jpgP1030897.jpg

It lived for a few months in a tank until finally dieing. It seems once they develop this white colouration internally it is only a matter of time until the shrimp dies. But their life expectancy can vary depending upon tank conditions. It seems if they are kept in clean surrounds with normal water management they can survive for quite some time.

There is even some debate on if the virus/ bacteria/ fungi that causes the whitening of the body may even be passed on genetically.

The worst part about this illness(es) is that for the majority of the time the shrimp with it behave normally, eating, active, breeding and shedding.

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sajica

I had a yellow cherry who started off a whitish colour that again.... I got another dud from someone.... FML

Much like this guy...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1618[/ATTACH]

He died yesterday.

post-538-139909847434_thumb.jpg

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t3v0r0

LOL... H2O2

Love it.

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fishmosy

I thought there was something dodgy about it as the colour is in the flesh/muscle rather than on/in the carapace (shell).

Heat shock would make sense as the tank mine is from has been quite hot (>26C) lately.

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fish4fish3

after last speaking Fishmosy I had done a bit of research myself. best answer... well not "best" but plausable is a parasite. It only shows in the male although females can be a carrier too. The parasite isn't deadly and won't effect size life span or anything of that sorts. The parasite is past on when they "get it on" and can be very difficult to remove from the colony expecially when you have hordes as mentioned before only the male shows signs and females can be carriers.

post-277-139909847912_thumb.jpg

this is an extract of the info: the Okayama Parasite, or the Super White Tiger Shrimp parasite. Originally it was found in N. denticulata in Okayama, Japan (where the name came from) and was eventually introduced to N. heteropoda at some point when someone attempted to diversify the gene pool of their cherry shrimp. Don't fear, the parasite is harmless from my studies. The white mass is only displayed in the males, though females can carry the parasite. When an infected female creates a saddle the parasite infects the eggs and eventually the newborn shrimp. The size of the mass is determined both environmentally and genetically, meaning through selective breeding you can create the whitest Neocaridina around!

Other answer was bacterial infection.

post-523-139909847464_thumb.jpg

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fishmosy

Do you have a link to where you found this info mate?

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smicko

Awesome golden bee cherries will be next lol. So will the parasite eventually turn the whole colony white and is there any way to tell which females are carriers so they can be removed?

Cheers Mick

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fish4fish3

yeah I do. do you want it? you'll have to beat me at fishing again to get it... lol! (sorry everyone but he caught a jewfish last time and that wasn't on the agenda... It's the first time he caught the best fish and won't rematch since)

Just kidding... It will never happen again so here it is... http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/8066-Milky-White-in-body-of-baby-Cherry-Shrimp

And the only way to seperate females is to actually seperate them and see if the off spring males are carrying it... very long process.

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fishmosy

The linked thread mentions Holtodrilus truncatus as the possible cause of the disease. I looked up some scientific papers regarding this species. H. truncatus is an ecto-symbiont (ecto meaning external, so in this case on the surface of the host) so can't be the cause. I'd highly doubt any branchiodellidan is the cause of this 'disease' because they are ecto-symbionts and they tend to occur more on crayfish/yabbies than on shrimp.

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northboy

I still believe from what i was told, Parasite and it shows from stress and heat is one of the major stresses.

Has any one done any serious work on it that you guys can find? that might help with a cure to feed to the shrimp?.

Bob

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Baccus

I was looking up information on White Muscle Disease in shrimp and found this article

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3288001/

It is interesting because it seems people are dealing with a number of shrimp illnesses that tend to present with the same symtpoms to the naked eye.

Also stumbled across this which after a quick skim read I will be reading more fully when I have more time

http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/aSGuest15572-167929-bacterial-diseases-shrimp-science-technology-ppt-powerpoint/

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fishmosy

Baccus: the article refers to Vibrio bacteria in prawn farms, which causes massive mortalities in commercial ponds. Vibrio are a genus of bacteria that have a nasty habit of being pathenogenic, i.e. they infect other organisms. Vibrio have been found to infect fish, crustaceans (prawns), molluscs (abalone) amongst others.

The reason why I think Vibrio, or probably any bacteria for that matter, are not responsible for what we see in RCS is that bacterial infections tend to occur rapidly and either result in death or recovery in a short period of time. As this 'disease' seems to be transmitted sexually, or when other shrimp eat a dead shrimp, and possibly from mother to offspring, then it is most likely a parasite, virus or prion. Prions are pretty rare so I'd tend to go with either parasite or virus.

For those who don't know, prions are proteins that act similarly to a virus. Two examples are the 'mad cow disease' and the infections amongst cannibals in PNG. These prions travel to the brain where they may cause cysts to form over time, or may interrupt in normal brain function, causing the cow/person to start behaving strangely, or go 'mad'. Prions are only passed on from infected persons/cows when they are eaten by another, in particular the brain where prions tend to congregate. The cannibalism link is obvious but the mad cow disease happened because people started adding meat meal into diets for cows to increase growth. As far as I am aware, there is no known case of a prion infecting a species other than the one in which it occurs.

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Baccus

Yep I know the first atricle refered to Vibtrio bacteria.

But the second link also seemed pretty interesting with the different bacteria/ illnesses seen in shrimp, because it also gives the symptoms and possible treatments. I tend to agree that what we are seeing in RCS is a virus or parasite. Its just that with even a couple of illnesses presenting with similar symptoms makes it harder to pin point which actual pathogen is affecting different shrimp. Unless every sick or suspected sick shrimp can be disected, examined under high powered microscopes and then have samples of the disease grown in agar to finally begin to fully document the illness(es).

It is interesting about prions, the cannibal diesease refered to in the Papua New Guineans is/ was Kuru disease which cropped up in one tribe by (it seems chance, most likely from eating a fellow human who happened to be carrying Creutzfeldt- Jakob disease)) but then because of tribal traditions of eating deceased relatives it was transmitted further a field than the original tribe through various tribal marriages into other tribes. But what is really intersting about Kuru is that it seems that any survivors of the disease have a genetic prion- resistant factor. Who knows perhaps in time and with work if it is a prion type disease affecting shrimp we will also find naturally resistant strains of shrimp.

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fishmosy

Problem with any disease is that it costs and can be time consuming to correctly identify the problem. For instance it took several years to correctly identify the Vibrio as the problem in the prawn farms, and they only realised they were working with several types of disease once they started recording disease symptoms in a scientific manner.

We may never know what is causing the 'symptoms' we are seeing as its not really a commercial problem (therefore no funding) and for all we know it could be several different types of causative agent that produce similar symptoms.

For interests sake, I might dissect one of my white shrimp to see if I can identify a parasite. I have access to good microscopes (and stains) at work so it might be worth a try.

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Baccus

If you do disect one of your shrimp, it would be interesting to see what you discover. Out of curiousity would you only disect say a well advanced white shrimp or would you also investigate one that is showing early signs?

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fishmosy

I've caught a few shrimp from the same tank, couple displaying symptoms, some not. I'll start with a well advanced white shrimp and see how it goes. Not holding my breath though.

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