Jump to content

COlumnaris? Best method to treat?


WaldoDude
 Share

Recommended Posts

G'day all,

I seem to be having a unlucky streak these past few days. Today I noticed one of my neon tetras in my 15 gallon planted tank was hanging out by himself and on a closer look I saw it has a small white growth on its mouth, kind of making it look like it has a flat nose. A quick google suggests its likely to be cottonmouth or columnaris. Having heard all the horror stories about columnaris decimating tanks, I immediately moved this neon to my CPD tank's empty hang-on breeder box (I stopped the air pump to cut it off from the main tank). I didn't think to acclimate the neon to its qt home, so I hope it will be ok.

Anyways how do I go about treating this neon as well as the entire 15 gallon tank? Here is the stocking:

1 Betta
2 Panda Cory
9 Neons
~20 cherry shrimp.

Last week I lost a Panda cory out of the blue, now I'm thinking perhaps it is something to do with this potential columnaris?

Water parameters:
Am - 0
N02 - 0
N02 - <5
Ph - 7.8
KH - 4/5
GH - 8/9
TDS - 208
Temp - 26

I do 30% water change once a week. These parameters were measured just before a scheduled water change, so things like TDS would usually be lower (I try to keep it around 140).

I can't seem to spot any other symptoms on any of the other fish. My main priority is to protect my betta!

This is my first time dealing with something like this. Any tips on medication and treatments would be appreciated!
I'll attach a picture of the neon just to confirm that it is in fact cottonmouth/columnaris.

IMG-0158.jpg

IMG-0159.jpg

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear one of your neons is sick and you lost a Cory! Great clear photos! Your fish has great colour!

I have had this with an odd neon maybe twice in five years, and confession time, I just euthenise the sick fish and hope it hasn't spread (and it didn't on  both those occasions). I can't get out to do anything about it anyway, so unless it has spread I wouldn't spend a lot of time and money (vet/antibiotics usually, but I don't know what is available in Australia) on a £1 fish (sorry if that upsets anyone)? I have some neons (bought this last sunday) which are a replacement for the 6 (all) that died when we had a hot week in our summer and the water got to approx. 30 degrees on a few days and killed them all off - incidentally the Ember tetras survived in the same tank with out a problem. I think neons are pretty fragile/weak. If you can, I would try and keep the temperature at 24 but that may not be possible where you live?

I believe the bacteria that causes it is always present in tanks and only causes the lesions when a fish is stressed or weakened, usually poor water quality is the preferred culprit! Unlikely in your case though!

If your water is going from TDS 140 to TDS 200+ between maintenance/water change, do you know what is causing that? Do you get a lot of evaporation? I would think the weekly water change of 30% should be sufficient, though try and add the new water slowly.

The water parameters you have are obviously as a well researched BALANCE/Compromise for the variety of fish/shrimp you have and I wouldn't think they would be a problem! Neons prefer a lower PH and softer water in general I believe. How long have you had this setup running?

You may have already seen the below but I think it is a good overall article,

https://www.thesprucepets.com/columnaris-disease-in-aquarium-fish-1378480

Simon

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Simon,

That's fair point for $1 fish haha, I guess I was also worried about the rest of the tank, but since I can't seem to see any symptoms or oddities on the other fish I'm hoping its all good and all I can do is keep monitoring and just see how this qt'd neon goes.

Yes I am getting alot of evaporation now that it is summer. Temp goes up to 26 max so far during the day and drops down to 23/24 at night. 

Adding water too fast is maybe something I'm guilty of, I use a bucket and just pour it in. 

Yeah the PH isn't ideal, maybe it is indeed something to do with my RO water and remineralising. This tank has been running for almost 4 months now. It has driftwood and Amazonia soil, so maybe why it is able to pull the PH down a bit more effectively than my other tank with 8.2/4 ph. I also use "Black Cole Stone" in this tank, which I have no idea what exactly it is and cant seem to find anything about it on the net, so I dont know how it affects ph

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hopefully by removing the sick fish the others may be alright, as mine were. You are doing the right thing and keeping an eye on the remaining fish!

I am quite surprised to hear that you are using RO water and remineraliser! If you top up the tank between water changes you should top up with pure RO water, otherwise you will get a build up on the parameters, as evaporated water leaves all the minerals in the tank.

Even if you just get a small diameter piece of tubing and let the water syphon in from the bucket will be less disruptive and more gradual?

The rock may be affecting the PH, try tesing the PH of the new prepared water before it goes into the tank. If the soil is reducing the PH and fighting the rock then the Ph will rise a lot more when the soil is exhausted, and the soil may get exhausted quite quickly.

Simon

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Hey! Ah sorry, yes I only use remineraliser when I do waterchanges not top ups!
All other fish seem fine since qting that particular neon. The neon is still alive (almost a month now since qt) which makes me think it may not be columnaris as I've read that it is fast acting. Its been behaving normally this whole time but the white growth on its nose is still there.
This is the treatment I've been conducting since I already had these on hand:
I've been using both Melafix and tBroad Spectrum Remedy in minimal amounts as the qt tank is a small breeder box of ~700ml. I used 0.5ml Melafix and 3 drops of BSR.

At one point it seemed like the white growth was decreasing in size. It reduced revealing pink/red underneath on its nose. However a couple days later the white growth had regrown. So from what I can tell it seems to be like a cycle. The white growth eventually kind of peels/flakes off revealing the pink/red (wound?) underneath before the white growth reappears. The neon is still alive and behaving normally. Any tips? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good to get an update!

I would carry on as is with the neon seperate until you are really sure it is ok and not risk putting it with the other fish.

I got some new neons before xmas and one seemed to have this but I haven't seen it recently so it either recovered, or died (can't remember how many I bought???). My (albeit limited) experience with neons is they aren't very robus/strongt, but are easy to get, pretty, and very cheap. Taking that into account I would tend to dispose of any sick ones I find, though I only do this with neon tetras.

Simon 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good read! I'm noticing one of my angelfish. I guess I could take Simon's advice on how to take care mine. Good thing I found your thread here guys. Thanks! ?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Join Our Community!

    Register today, ask questions and share your shrimp and fish tank experiences with us!

  • Must Read SKF Articles

  • Posts

    • sdlTBfanUK
      You may end up losing this batch entirely but then you can start completely fresh and get the aquarium set up right for the next batch of shrimp! If you do any large water changes then try and add the new water slowly, either dripper or some other way. You should get yourself a TDS meter (as JayC above), they are cheap and readily available. You should always use a GH tester kit as well with shrimps, if you do the 50% water change that should halve the GH so you should get a reading after that, or if you can get a local fish store to test it for you that will give you an idea of the GH. If your water supply is as hard as it appears it may be you will need to mull over how (or even IF) you want to keep shrimps as that may mean using RO or distilled/bottled water and buying a proper shrimp specific remineraliser? That will be quite expensive but you won't then have to mess about adding crushed coral/eggshells etc, but only you can decide whether you want to do/spend that much etc? If you live somewhere that gets a lot of rain, then you can use rain water? Also, as JayC states, you need to know what you are using/adding to the water and aquarium, ie fertilizers, rocks. Unless you have very exotic plants you shouldn't need any fertilizers. Just as a note, we have come across quite a few experienced fish keeprs that have this sort of start off issues with shrimp. Shrimp are more difficult than fish, and the aquarium and water etc need to be ready and within the required parameters before getting the shrimps. Usually people jump in, get the shrimps before everything is ready/sorted. Hopefully though you will keep at it, or if this lot die you will have another go and we can help you get it sorted?
    • jayc
      These are all classic symptoms of shrimp moulting problems.   Again, another high GH symptom. High GH not only causes harder carapace (shell), but it also makes eggs harder. When the egg is harder the male finds it more difficult to fertilise the eggs.   That's a worry if you can't get a good GH reading because that is going to be most likely issue right now for you.   Because snails don't moult.    If you dont already have a TDS meter, I suggest getting one asap. It's another test to narrow down your water parameters, and not have to trust one test by it's own - in this case the GH test kit. I would wager your water parameter is too high in dissolved minerals - likely from the tap water source, fertiliser dosing and/or any rocks/crushed corals you might have in the tank. To remedy this, you need to start doing water changes with RO, distilled or rain water immediately. I would do a 50% water change with RO water asap. Then look for sources that increase GH in the tank and eliminate it - fertilisers, rocks, crush corals, shells.    It's difficult to save a shrimp who's carapace is already too hard, but hopefully any younger shrimps will benefit from the water change and the reduced GH.   Good luck and keep us updated.
    • professionalshrimphugger
      United States. I have tested my tap water; it yields the same results. GH: ??, KH: 3, pH: 7.8. I cannot say for sure if my GH test is faulty or not, the expiration is until 2023. It's more of a twitching, then stasis. I have one shrimp that's having a hard time balancing itself, but it's swimmerets and mouth keep moving in attempt in getting back up. I allowed it to stick to my sponge filter. The tank is cycled. I used established media. Readings would not show 0 otherwise. I do use EI Dosing, half dosage recommended for a 20 gallon. It has been said on other forums that it does not affect shrimp, but I stopped dosing to isolate variables a week ago. No CO2, that's too costly for me, hah. I drip acclimated the shrimp for 2 hours, 1 drop per second. I tested for copper in my tank, nothing. Funnily enough, my mystery snails in my community tank don't seem too affected by it.
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Sorry to hear you are having a problem! Where are you based in the world? Can you test your tapwater GH/KH/PH? Best to know what the source water is, dechlorinated (if required) before you have ADDED anything. Are you sure the GH test is working and not old, or already activated/contaminated somehow? The other parameters seem ok! If the GH is as ridiculousy high as you say then I expect the shrimps would have problems molting (they may be twitching to get out of the old shell), though generally twitchy behaviour is usually down to some sort of toxic poisoning or the aquarium not being properly cycled? Are you using any plant fertiser or CO2?  Did you drip acclimate the shrimp over many hours before adding them to the aquarium? They are much more sensitive than fish to changes in water parameters etc. You could end up killing more of them by moving them so I would hold off from that at the moment!  
    • professionalshrimphugger
      Hello all, I am new to the forum, although experienced at fishkeeping, I am relatively new to shrimpkeeping. Let's start with my issue. I had started a colony of 18 juvenile cherry shrimp (Neocaridina davidi) in a 20 gallon long as of last month. I solely use tap water and change 5% per week. They are the only inhabitants alongside a single juvenile Malaysian trumpet snail. Today the numbers have been reduced to 9. The deaths did not start until the shrimp turned into adults, where they have struggled, twitching as if provoked, becoming lethargic, and eventually flipping over to their side and dying. Only the ones on the verge of death exhibit this behavior, whereas the rest simply graze on as usual. I measured my parameters today - my tank has been established for two months as of now and is densely planted. They have never bred despite being of adult size and having visible saddles. Never an issue with molting. Ammonia: 0 ppm, Nitrite: 0 ppm, Nitrate: 0-5 ppm || pH: 7.8, GH: ??, KH: 3 I cannot get a single good read off API's liquid GH test. I have dropped beyond 30+ and gave up as I knew the numbers were already extreme. The thing is, I need a temporary, inexpensive solution to keep my shrimp safe. I believe by the time I order supplies, the colony would already give. I was planning on moving the colony to a 5.5g, barren with my floating plants and mosses, using just distilled water, Seachem Equilibrium (only GH additive I own) and crushed eggshells (potential source of KH). Possibly crushed coral to substitute for the lack of any real mineral additive. I did not believe that high GH would possibly become a problem, and I am fortunate that the strugglers are still alive. If anyone has a solution to this problem, or approve of my plan of action, please let me know. TIA
×
×
  • Create New...