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Steensj2004

Aquamaxx 17.1 Gallon Caridina Tank Build

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Steensj2004
39 minutes ago, jayc said:

LOL.

Did you read the article properly?🙁

Under the Disclaimer - who is the author?

 

 

The info I give you is much more up to date than these other sites who have taken a snapshot of the evolving field of treatment for shrimp diseases. I warned those websites, that they need to ensure they maintain the content, as I keep updating the Disease & Diagnostics post. But alas, they copy it once and never remember to return to update it. So our own Disease and Diagnostics post is the source and is actively maintained by me. 

Carvacrol (aka Oregano oil) will treat bacteria of various types. Chitinolytic disease is just another form of bacteria. Oregano oil when added to food will treat bacteria internally. Oregano oil added to the water will treat bacteria externally, like on the shell/carapace, like in the case of Chitinolytic disease. But take caution with filter bacteria, as with any treatment for bacteria will also impact beneficial filter bacteria. You might want to remove half the media and keep in another tank, just in case.

If you can get fresh Oregano leaves, add them into the tank and see if the shrimp will eat it.

The Levamisole will work on external bacteria only. It would be very hard getting the shrimp to eat it to treat internal bacteria infections.

I looked at the one here following the original site I posted. I am unable to quarantine to use oregano oil. And isn’t the bacterial shell disease external. It would be nice to attack both....

If it were your tank, how would you attack this? I feel more confident that it is, at least in part, the chitinolytic disease. 
 

I could remove the HOB and one of the sponge filter sponges. The sponge I can put into the smaller 5 gallon with the fish to keep it seasoned, while the HOB can simply be turned off. How long would I then wait on the oregano oil to work before adding the filter media’s back in?

E0B6AABB-F59F-40F9-8A67-E8B031509DE2.jpeg

Hey, I just thought about Something.... I have some organic Greek  oregano growing right now in my herb garden. Would those leaves work, and can I add the leaves without killing the filter bacteria in the tank?

 

Edited by Steensj2004
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jayc
On 24 January 2020 at 10:55 AM, Steensj2004 said:

And isn’t the bacterial shell disease external. It would be nice to attack both....

Yes, it is external. That's why I suggested carvocrol. It will work both internally and externally. 

The oil if soak in food will be eaten to treat internal bacteria. Add some diluted oil into the water column for external treatments. Doses can be found in the Disease and Diagnostics post.

 

On 24 January 2020 at 10:55 AM, Steensj2004 said:

can I add the leaves without killing the filter bacteria in the tank?

Yes. But it's not like using carvocrol oil. Oregano leaves just aid in the process of using carvocrol oil.

 

On 24 January 2020 at 10:55 AM, Steensj2004 said:

How long would I then wait on the oregano oil to work before adding the filter media’s back in?

Give it 3 days after treatment. And note: you might want to add a second dose 2-3 days after the first. So wait until you finish all repeat doses of carvocrol oil before adding the filters back in. 

 

On 24 January 2020 at 10:55 AM, Steensj2004 said:

I looked at the one here following the original site I posted.

In case you didn't pick it up. The source of the info from the site you posted is our very own Diseases and Diagnostics post (see the disclaimer section in the link you provided). 

The info here is more up to date.

You will need to treat all the shrimp in the

 tank with Carvocrol oil, if you have a bacterial infection. Just save as much beneficial bacteria as you can before adding the oil. Carvocrol oil is very soluble, so it will mix in the water well. 

 

Carvocrol oil isn't cheap, so hopefully we are treating the right ailment. Assuming it is bacterial in nature and not a water parameter issue. As I said, the pictures provided were too low in resolution.

Good luck.

Edited by jayc
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Steensj2004
6 minutes ago, jayc said:

Yes, it is external. That's why I suggested carvocrol. It will work both internally and externally. 

The oil if soak in food will be eaten to treat internal bacteria. Add some diluted oil into the water column for external treatments. Doses can be found in the Disease and Diagnostics post.

 

Yes. But it's not like using carvocrol oil. Oregano leaves just aid in the process of using carvocrol oil.

 

Give it 3 days after treatment. And note: you might want to add a second dose 2-3 days after the first. So wait until you finish all repeat doses of carvocrol oil before adding the filters back in. 

 

In case you didn't pick it up. The source of the info from the site you posted is our very own Diseases and Diagnostics post (see the disclaimer section in the link you provided). 

The info here is more up to date.

You will need to treat the whole tank with Carvocrol oil, if you have a bacterial infection. Just save as much beneficial bacteria as you can before adding the oil. Carvocrol oil is very soluble, so it will mix in the water well. 

 

Carvocrol oil isn't cheap, so hopefully we are treating the right ailment. Assuming it is bacterial in nature and not a water parameter issue. As I said, the pictures provided were too low in resolution.

Good luck.

Leaves added. Ordered the Oregano oil!Fingers crossed!!

Edited by Steensj2004
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jayc
2 minutes ago, Steensj2004 said:

Leaves added.

Blanch a couple of them. Let's see if we can get the shrimp to eat them.

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Steensj2004

Wait, one last question. What should I look for in a oregano oil. I ordered one, but I can cancel and add a different one if need be.

also, won’t the remaining oil kill the bacteria when I re-add the filter media?

Edited by Steensj2004
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jayc
10 minutes ago, Steensj2004 said:

What should I look for in an oregano oil.

Look for one that is in oil form, not capsules.

It should have a % of carvocrol oil listed. Look for one that is above 70% (85-87% is best). Send me a link to have a look.

 

10 minutes ago, Steensj2004 said:

won’t the remaining oil kill the bacteria when I reads filter media?

50% water change after medication treatment before adding filter media back in.

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Steensj2004
8 minutes ago, jayc said:

Look for one that is in oil form, not capsules.

It should have a % of carvocrol oil listed. Look for one that is above 70% (85-87% is best). Send me a link to have a look.

 

50% water change after medication treatment before adding filter media back in.

How about  This? https://www.amazon.com/Oregano-Quality-UNDILUTED-ESSENTIAL-Certified/dp/B017ZZRYGA/ref=mp_s_a_1_14?keywords=oregano+oil&qid=1579826930&sprefix=oreg&sr=8-14

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jayc

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Steensj2004
19 minutes ago, jayc said:

Perfect. That's the right one.

Ok. Canceled the other as it didn’t list a percentage. Won’t be here till Saturday though, hopefully that’s fast enough. Boiling water to blanch some oregano now.

 

 

Edit: two small twigs of oregano leaves blanched for 30 seconds and added.... now we wait. My shrimp don’t react to added food well... fingers crossed. 
 

will added oregano leaves put oil into the water after blanching?

Edited by Steensj2004
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jayc
3 hours ago, Steensj2004 said:

Canceled the other as it didn’t list a percentage

What? why? I said that's the right one to buy.

It says it has 86-90% carvocrol oil. 

 

Just adding leaves into the water will not add much oil into the water to help the shrimp, unless thy eat it. So you will still need to buy the carvocrol oil.

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Crabby

Lol sorry jayc but I think he meant he had already ordered a different one, but then he found the one he linked and ordered that instead.

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Steensj2004
8 hours ago, jayc said:

What? why? I said that's the right one to buy.

It says it has 86-90% carvocrol oil. 

 

Just adding leaves into the water will not add much oil into the water to help the shrimp, unless thy eat it. So you will still need to buy the carvocrol oil.

I apologize for being unclear. I had ordered one before asking more specific questions. So I simply located a different one and order that( the one you green lighted), while also canceling the less desirable one. Also, the one you told me to buy, was considerably cheaper, while retaining the same no additive ingredient list.

 

No signs that the oregano leaves were touched this AM, but, there were multiple shrimp surrounding them, while several were perched on them. I’m not sure how much they need to ingest to really help, but hopefully the sampled a little bit overnight. Now, my problem is locating a food that they will attack, to place into the tank. Would it be possible to mix some BacterAE/ Shrimp Fit powder into oregano oil water? They seem to feed on that when it’s added to the tank.... otherwise, I’ll use some rephasy, newt made, with oregano oil water added.... or something similar. 

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Steensj2004

Um, because I’m all over the place I thought it pertinent to mention I’ve slowly lowered my GH to 5-6 over the last week and a half, or so. Slowly, but these shell issues existed long before adjusting the water parameters. I suppose it’s possible this could have finished off the injured shrimp, however, the parameters are, from what I can gather, a little more superior at this time. The GH was lowered by monitoring my TDS drop closely. I dropped the TDS by around 2 points daily. At this point, I’m sitting at:

 

PH: 6.2

GH:5-6( during testing, the color teeters between 5-6 drops for a change)

KH:0

TDS:140

Temp: 72f

 

So, now that I’ve completely sworn off of fertilizers, I haven’t seen any increase or decrease in TDS / GH without my own manipulation.

Second and third generation of shrimplettes are doing well, and aren’t showing any signs of discoloration. Another mama likely soon to drop as her eggs have easily visible eyes.

  

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Steensj2004

Shrimp on the oregano leaves! I don’t know, however, if they can get anything off them. I blanched in boiling water for 30-45 seconds, but they weren’t that soft.....

5864B0D0-EECA-45CE-91DD-B80BD0407192.jpeg

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Steensj2004

@jayc or anyone else, could you please go over how to dose this oregano oil in water, just to make sure I don’t nuke my tank. I only have my tiny HOB and dual sponge filter. Oil will be here tomorrow and I’m nervous about killing my tank. Filter media will be moved to a 1.5 gallon  tall container( beverage type container thAts tall and deep), with the sponge filter. I’ll leave the HOB without ceramic media etc for flow during treatment. I will be taking a gallon of  tank water out for the container my filter media and sponge will be running in for a few days, before dosing. 
 

I places a blanched cucumber in tonight, they swarmed it for the first time, ever. Looking at the shells on some of them, it’s 100% bacterial( external as well as possibly internal). I don’t know why. I thought my water was in good shape..... I’m terrified of something going wrong. Hopefully I can get it all together, and this is successful....

also, than you all for the help. It’s greatly appreciated.

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jayc
1 hour ago, Steensj2004 said:

how to dose this oregano oil in water

To treat internally, add a drop of the oil to food. Flakes or wafer type foods are best. Anything dry that will sink to the bottom of the tank.

To treat externally, add 1ml to 20L for the whole tank treatment. This is a more dilute dose than the "Diseases and Diagnosis" post. But I'd prefer we go with a lower dose. How big is you tank ? I realise I'm working in metric, so let me know the dimensions of your tank, just to be sure. A repeat dose after every 2 days is a good idea until symptoms are cleared. Then a 50% water change. Followed by another 50% water change 2days later. Then add any filter media you saved back into the filter.

Please note: Treating shrimp diseases is still a very new science. There is no exact doses to be used. There is no specific medication for specific diseases unlike the fish keeping side of the hobby. You will not see Oregano Oil being prescribed for diseases anywhere else (yet) for shrimp except on this forum. In many ways we are pioneering things with the shrimp industry. So when I tell you to use 1ml to 20L, it's not an exact science or a proven dosage. If you have a quarantine tank, it might reduce the risks. But what I do know of Oregano oil is that it is powerful stuff against bacteria, it will work if we are dealing with a bacterial infection here, which you seem to be confident it is.

 

17 hours ago, Crabby said:

Lol sorry jayc but I think he meant he had already ordered a different one,

11 hours ago, Steensj2004 said:

I apologize for being unclear

Ah, I get it now. 

 

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Steensj2004
3 hours ago, jayc said:

To treat internally, add a drop of the oil to food. Flakes or wafer type foods are best. Anything dry that will sink to the bottom of the tank.

To treat externally, add 1ml to 20L for the whole tank treatment. This is a more dilute dose than the "Diseases and Diagnosis" post. But I'd prefer we go with a lower dose. How big is you tank ? I realise I'm working in metric, so let me know the dimensions of your tank, just to be sure. A repeat dose after every 2 days is a good idea until symptoms are cleared. Then a 50% water change. Followed by another 50% water change 2days later. Then add any filter media you saved back into the filter.

Please note: Treating shrimp diseases is still a very new science. There is no exact doses to be used. There is no specific medication for specific diseases unlike the fish keeping side of the hobby. You will not see Oregano Oil being prescribed for diseases anywhere else (yet) for shrimp except on this forum. In many ways we are pioneering things with the shrimp industry. So when I tell you to use 1ml to 20L, it's not an exact science or a proven dosage. If you have a quarantine tank, it might reduce the risks. But what I do know of Oregano oil is that it is powerful stuff against bacteria, it will work if we are dealing with a bacterial infection here, which you seem to be confident it is.

 

Ah, I get it now. 

 

This tank:

https://www.marinedepot.com/aquamaxx-rectangular-low-iron-rimless-aquarium-17-1-gallon

 

 20L is around 5.2 gallons. I ASSUME there is around 12 gallons of water in there after water displacement from substrates, rocks, etc. so I assume 2ml of oregano oil TOTAL to that water volume. Add the oil to RO outside the tank, shake hard to combine, and dump it in?

Edited by Steensj2004
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jayc
2 hours ago, Steensj2004 said:

Add the oil to RO outside the tank, shake hard to combine, and dump it in?

That's right. 

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Steensj2004
6 hours ago, jayc said:

That's right. 

Additionally, I want to use diluted oil on the food I add, too. Correct?

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Steensj2004

filter media removed from HOB, and spong lenfilter assembly completely removed. Both are in a  container of tank water until treatment is over.  About to mix up this oregano oil water. I plan to add some BacterAE and shrimp fit. Let it sit for a while. That SHOULD impregnate the BacterAE/Fit particles with some oil. I’ll do some tablets later 
 

7AE2F69E-953E-448C-B908-9A7E4552DDDC.jpeg

Edited by Steensj2004
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Steensj2004

Ok..... well..... it’s added. I’m not confident about this, as I shook the ever living daylights out of this mixture and the oils still leaves a film when put into the tank. Ugh. Well, 2mL of oil added to the tank with some BacterAE and Shrimp Fut powder that was added to the water-oil mix. Let it sit about 3 minutes before shaking a second time and adding it all. Sigh......

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sdlTBfanUK

I really hope this works for you and everything settles down! I have been following this but am  not experienced with medicating shrimp so can't really add anything but have followed! I will keep my fingers crossed for you! 

Simon

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Steensj2004

Ok, I’m flaping freaking out. Everything is losing its mind. At first they all just came out. Now they are all flipping out, jerking around. Swimming. Losing their MINDS......!!!!

Welp. All my flapin babies are dying or dead already. Fan-flaping -tasitc.

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Steensj2004

10 dead....

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Steensj2004

 

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