Aquamaxx 17.1 Gallon Caridina Tank Build

[sdlTBfanUK]

Those reds have a lovely rich red colour, not as orangey red as the ones I have seen! Nice fancy tiger as well, be interesting to see what that produces with time and cross breeding?

It is great that you are getting berried females and lots of babies so I doubt there can be much wrong? I would just carry on with the treatment as you are until the 'originals' have died off, you may then be able to stop treating altogether???

Keep up the good work and the extra work has to be worth it if the pictures are anything to go by........

Simon

[Steensj2004]

2 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Those reds have a lovely rich red colour, not as orangey red as the ones I have seen! Nice fancy tiger as well, be interesting to see what that produces with time and cross breeding?

It is great that you are getting berried females and lots of babies so I doubt there can be much wrong? I would just carry on with the treatment as you are until the 'originals' have died off, you may then be able to stop treating altogether???

Keep up the good work and the extra work has to be worth it if the pictures are anything to go by........

Simon

I’m hoping to get a strain of fancy black or red fancy tigers. I have a tank running, ready to go for those alone if and when I get some! It’s been up since before this tank( the fluval edge)!

[beanbag]

I think the standard recommendation is GH 5-6 for these kind of shrimp, so mix your input water to that level and the TDS should be 20x that if you use Salty Shrimp.  That is a rough way to calibrate the TDS pen also.  Your tank water should naturally be a few TDS point higher than your input water.  I think the thing to aim for is GH, not TDS.

[Steensj2004]

29 minutes ago, beanbag said:

I think the standard recommendation is GH 5-6 for these kind of shrimp, so mix your input water to that level and the TDS should be 20x that if you use Salty Shrimp.  That is a rough way to calibrate the TDS pen also.  Your tank water should naturally be a few TDS point higher than your input water.  I think the thing to aim for is GH, not TDS.

I’m currently at 5-6 now. I dunno why TDS is so low.

 

i also use calibration fluid for my TDS pen. Calibration done earlier shows a higher TDS at 124. Guess this pen isn’t holding cal well.

[beanbag]

Your TDS value of 116 for a GH of 5-6 is about right

Edited April 22, 2020 by beanbag

[Danky808]

Do you have any labs of schools near you that are still open right now? You could send in A shrimp or water to them to get tested. A lab will most likely charge, but I’ve had A college near me test soil and water samples for me free of charge multiple times before. The lab charged me between 50-100$ depending on what I needed them to test for. 

[Steensj2004]

20 hours ago, Danky808 said:

Do you have any labs of schools near you that are still open right now? You could send in A shrimp or water to them to get tested. A lab will most likely charge, but I’ve had A college near me test soil and water samples for me free of charge multiple times before. The lab charged me between 50-100$ depending on what I needed them to test for. 

I’m not aware of one.

 

 

Update: I’ve now culled 4 shrimp. It’s heart breaking but this disease, whatever it is, is coming back with a vengeance. I don’t know what to do, and I’m really exhausted. Now I’m seeing tiffs of black bread growing. I don’t understand. I feed maybe 3-4x a week at this point, water parameters shouldn’t be causing immune issues. 
 

im ready to tear this tank down.

[sdlTBfanUK]

40 minutes ago, Steensj2004 said:

I’m not aware of one.

 

 

Update: I’ve now culled 4 shrimp. It’s heart breaking but this disease, whatever it is, is coming back with a vengeance. I don’t know what to do, and I’m really exhausted. Now I’m seeing tiffs of black bread growing. I don’t understand. I feed maybe 3-4x a week at this point, water parameters shouldn’t be causing immune issues. 
 

im ready to tear this tank down.

Keep at it, though I certainly understand your frustration......... If you really get to the end I would just cull the ones that get sick and see how it goes, as they only appear to be the one group,  original CRS that have got sick so far. The others may be ok and even if it does pause breeding as you only then have youngsters, it may work out given a bit more time!

I assume you are still not using plant fertiliser?

Simon

[Steensj2004]

13 minutes ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Keep at it, though I certainly understand your frustration......... If you really get to the end I would just cull the ones that get sick and see how it goes, as they only appear to be the one group,  original CRS that have got sick so far. The others may be ok and even if it does pause breeding as you only then have youngsters, it may work out given a bit more time!

I assume you are still not using plant fertiliser?

Simon

I am not using fertilizer. I’m just wore out, abs I’m half regretting starting another tank....

 

Sorry, just very frustrated 

[sdlTBfanUK]

I totally get it!!!! I spent a small fortune on my shrimps and they just died off each time, no idea why so got the fish for now instead and they are doing well at the moment. I saw 1 shrimp in there the other day! I may try shrimps again when we get back to normal, but lets be realistic thats a way off yet anyway!

If you don't use ANYTHING from the current tank with the new tank, that new one may work out better as whatever it is probably won't be in that tank if you have a clean start and don't use anything from the trouble tank? 

Simon

[Danky808]

Well since you can’t get either tested, can you put the suspected shrimp into A completely different container of their own. Seperate from the main tank, so no way they’d be able to climb back into the new tank. 
 

Then get another tank or container and put A few shrimp from that same tank in it, but use fresh/clean water? 
 

Don’t cull/kill any of them, and then post daily pictures of each tank? I was looking back in this thread and couldn’t really find Detailed pictures.. But I think by doing this, you’d give me as well as everyone else as much better look at what’s actually going on. 

[Steensj2004]

1 hour ago, Danky808 said:

Well since you can’t get either tested, can you put the suspected shrimp into A completely different container of their own. Seperate from the main tank, so no way they’d be able to climb back into the new tank. 
 

Then get another tank or container and put A few shrimp from that same tank in it, but use fresh/clean water? 
 

Don’t cull/kill any of them, and then post daily pictures of each tank? I was looking back in this thread and couldn’t really find Detailed pictures.. But I think by doing this, you’d give me as well as everyone else as much better look at what’s actually going on. 

I’ve been through all but one treatment option. The,”Don’t add oregano oil directly to your tank” disclaimer, in the disease section.... we learned that from this tank. 
 

This has been cured once. The problem is, all treatments were used, so we can’t be 100% sure what fixed it. The shrimp that were culled we’re suffering horribly and about to die. I’m not currently at a capacity to start another tank/vessel. 
 

Also, we’re talking about multiple shrimp, there are maybe 2-3 that are still visibly infected, but very lightly.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Steensj2004

[beanbag]

7 hours ago, Steensj2004 said:

I’m not aware of one.

Update: I’ve now culled 4 shrimp. It’s heart breaking but this disease, whatever it is, is coming back with a vengeance. I don’t know what to do, and I’m really exhausted. Now I’m seeing tiffs of black bread growing. I don’t understand. I feed maybe 3-4x a week at this point, water parameters shouldn’t be causing immune issues.

im ready to tear this tank down.

Black Beard Algae is a common problem in aquariums with well-know causes and cures, so I don't think this should be adding too much additional stress to your situation.

One of the causes is excess nutrients in the water, and so this suggests that the overall problem might be water pollution from either overfeeding, or bits of food that settled somewhere.  I don't say this with a tone of "ah ha, I know exactly what your problem is", but only as a suggestion for how to approach the situation in terms of "doing things that should be good for the tank regardless".  With that said, here is what I would do:  (My own tank is starting to have problems with inactive shrimp, so I will end up doing some of these things as well)

Reduce overall feeding, and try to limit to foods that won't get everywhere and even if it did would not decay.  So for example, spinach leaf instead of Shrimp Baby.

Maybe increase water change frequency, but be careful to drip it back in slowly.  As for your TDS issue, I would only compare input water TDS to tank water TDS.

Occasional H2O2 dose (the food grade version, lol)

[Steensj2004]

55 minutes ago, beanbag said:

Black Beard Algae is a common problem in aquariums with well-know causes and cures, so I don't think this should be adding too much additional stress to your situation.

One of the causes is excess nutrients in the water, and so this suggests that the overall problem might be water pollution from either overfeeding, or bits of food that settled somewhere.  I don't say this with a tone of "ah ha, I know exactly what your problem is", but only as a suggestion for how to approach the situation in terms of "doing things that should be good for the tank regardless".  With that said, here is what I would do:  (My own tank is starting to have problems with inactive shrimp, so I will end up doing some of these things as well)

Reduce overall feeding, and try to limit to foods that won't get everywhere and even if it did would not decay.  So for example, spinach leaf instead of Shrimp Baby.

Maybe increase water change frequency, but be careful to drip it back in slowly.  As for your TDS issue, I would only compare input water TDS to tank water TDS.

Occasional H2O2 dose (the food grade version, lol)

I’ve almost completely stopped feeling any Glasgarten foods/additives. I feed so little, it actually worry’s me I’m starving the shrimp. I do 2 water changes weekly, small ones instead of large ones. All foods are placed in a feeding dish, and removed after a few hours if uneaten. Input water always matches water removed( I mix a Salty Shrimp concentrate in the same recipe, and know how much to add per 5 gallons of water I make). It always comes out the same, or within 2-3TDS. PH, GH, and KH always match.
 

I also maintenance dose H202 2 times a week.

I honestly don’t know what else to change. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Steensj2004

[beanbag]

The input water is not supposed to match the output water.  Usually the output water will be a several TDS points higher.

Earlier you said you feed 3-4 times a week.  You could try even less.  And remove the food before one hour.  The petshrimp.com guy (one of the earlier cherry shrimp breeders in the US) is really big about the dangers of overfeeding shrimp.

https://www.petshrimp.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=2090

http://www.petshrimp.com/articles/whyshrimpdead.php

The main reason for me to to take his advice, besides being for a different species of shrimp, and being very old advice, is that he explains the symptoms of overfeeding and they match what I see very well (in my case)

What I would really like to know is how to tell if you are underfeeding shrimp.  I know that shrimp can survive for up to a week without eating, i.e. during shipping.

Another thing you can try if you really are out of ideas:  Dr. Tim's Eco Balance.  It is supposed to have "good" bacteria and displace the "bad".  I have some, but am hesitant to use it, mainly out of fear of "making changes".  There's not too many posts about it on the internet about whether it actually works to fix problems.

Edited April 24, 2020 by beanbag

[jayc]

3 hours ago, beanbag said:

What I would really like to know is how to tell if you are underfeeding shrimp.

That's a really good topic for a conversation.

Let me go read the links you posted first, before I offer any opinions.

[Steensj2004]

9 hours ago, beanbag said:

The input water is not supposed to match the output water.  Usually the output water will be a several TDS points higher.

Earlier you said you feed 3-4 times a week.  You could try even less.  And remove the food before one hour.  The petshrimp.com guy (one of the earlier cherry shrimp breeders in the US) is really big about the dangers of overfeeding shrimp.

https://www.petshrimp.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=2090

http://www.petshrimp.com/articles/whyshrimpdead.php

The main reason for me to to take his advice, besides being for a different species of shrimp, and being very old advice, is that he explains the symptoms of overfeeding and they match what I see very well (in my case)

What I would really like to know is how to tell if you are underfeeding shrimp.  I know that shrimp can survive for up to a week without eating, i.e. during shipping.

Another thing you can try if you really are out of ideas:  Dr. Tim's Eco Balance.  It is supposed to have "good" bacteria and displace the "bad".  I have some, but am hesitant to use it, mainly out of fear of "making changes".  There's not too many posts about it on the internet about whether it actually works to fix problems.

I said the water matches within 2-3 TDS. I see maybe a few TDS difference between water changes, which I why I said it matches within 2-3.

When I feed, I’m feeding less than a TicTac sized piece of food.  Anything that isn’t eaten is removed within 1-2 hours.Are you implying that somehow, that is causing Blackbeard algae? 

I generally regard bottled bacteria as poppycock, as there is no way to know how long that specific bottle has been sitting on the shelf. Are the bacteria even alive?

Edited April 24, 2020 by Steensj2004

[beanbag]

https://www.aquasabi.com/aquascaping-wiki_algae_bba-black-beard-algae

[Steensj2004]

3 hours ago, beanbag said:

https://www.aquasabi.com/aquascaping-wiki_algae_bba-black-beard-algae

I’ve read that article. It’s the reason I used Easy Carbo previously to eradicate it. I’ll just stop feeding for now. They aren’t super reactive to food, anyway.

[Steensj2004]

I’m at at loss. 5 days of Antibiotic had zero effect. So I’m done with that. Ordered Dr. Tim’s One and Only, maybe I can displace the bad bacteria as @beanbagmentioned?

Ive completely stopped feeding, fighting the algae with Easy Carbo, again. Did a 4 gallon water change as well. The algae is only in small areas, tiny little riffs. I should be able to beat it back, again.

 

Here is the odd part, none of the infected shrimp seem to be lethargic, or acting weird. I just don’t get it....

 

I’ve attached some pics as to what the disease looks like at this point. Also a pic of the BBA 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Steensj2004

[beanbag]

The product I mentioned was Eco Balance.  But whatever.

[Steensj2004]

58 minutes ago, beanbag said:

The product I mentioned was Eco Balance.  But whatever.

Seems oddly aggressive....

 

I meant ecobalance, I mistyped. 

[sdlTBfanUK]

I can see the discolouration in the white areas of the larger shrimp but if they are otherwise fine maybe they will need to molt before that disappears, or maybe they just aren't top grade to start with? Is it still only on the old original shrimp, the younger one in photo 2 looks perfect and have any died recently? At least all you have tried hasn't caused any problems, if it is only the original shrimps affected, after the Dr tims I would just leave them be personally,, unless you start seeing the same happening with some from the next generation!

I hope the carbon treatment sorts out the BBA but it is so small (it took me ages to even see it) I would expect it would clear anyway with time!

Simon

[Steensj2004]

9 minutes ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

I can see the discolouration in the white areas of the larger shrimp but if they are otherwise fine maybe they will need to molt before that disappears, or maybe they just aren't top grade to start with? Is it still only on the old original shrimp, the younger one in photo 2 looks perfect and have any died recently? At least all you have tried hasn't caused any problems, if it is only the original shrimps affected, after the Dr tims I would just leave them be personally,, unless you start seeing the same happening with some from the next generation!

I hope the carbon treatment sorts out the BBA but it is so small (it took me ages to even see it) I would expect it would clear anyway with time!

Simon

Molting doesn’t seem to fix it. They are much older, maybe it’s something to do with that? Also, to be fair, I haven’t caught one right after a molt  to know if it goes away and comes back after a molting.
 

I had one death yesterday. But that was the old neo. She was the lone neo left from the original batch, and she was old. Likely from old age as she showed zero symptoms of the disease, too. 
 

The one Mostly white CRS in the picture used to be pearl white. So I don’t think it was a grade issue, but possibly? Either way, after the Dr Tim’s, I’m done trying to treat it outside keeping water parameters as pristine as possible and regular maintenance. I have nothing left to try. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Steensj2004

[Steensj2004]

20 hours ago, Steensj2004 said:

Seems oddly aggressive....

 

I meant ecobalance, I mistyped. 

Strike that, I did get the one and only as All the eco-balance I saw were for saltwater. One and only specified freshwater, and blocking out harmful bacteria.  Several are advertised as both one and only, and Eco Balance too, so it’s a little confusing.
 

I wasn’t ignoring your advice, I just simply thought to order the freshwater specific one, but I’m not sure if it’s different TBH.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Steensj2004