Aquamaxx 17.1 Gallon Caridina Tank Build

[Steensj2004]

Well...... that’s awesome. 
 

update: Performed an immediate 10 gallon water change. Water matched within 15 TDS, exact PH l/ GH. Didn’t know what else to do. Lost 15-20, all tiny baby’s toast( dead). I dunno, it almost killed the corys cats too. Things have settled down, filter media back in. I dunno, maybe there is enough oil left over to help heal them. Assuming they don’t all die anyway.

[jayc]

Sorry to hear that.

please do another water change the following day.

[Steensj2004]

18 minutes ago, jayc said:

Sorry to hear that.

please do another water change the following day.

Is there an explanation for this? I even a deceased the dose to 1.5 mL.....

 

How big of a water change? 50%? Should I throw in a bottle of bacteria for good measure or nah?

Edited January 25, 2020 by Steensj2004

[Steensj2004]

No more dead shrimp in the tank, but, they are still twitchy. Acting odd... suggestions. I have another two gallons, shoe I do another two gallon change now?

[jayc]

46 minutes ago, Steensj2004 said:

another two gallon change now?

50% should be ok for now. 

 

[Steensj2004]

31 minutes ago, jayc said:

50% should be ok for now. 

 

Ok. I have already swapped the to additional gallons. I’ll do another 50% tomorrow. Afternoon 

[sdlTBfanUK]

I hope today brings better results for you?

Most of the active shrimp in the video looked normal to me, that happens when changing water etc, but the small ones were acting a bit twitchy!

Go cautiously though, if there haven't been any more loses etc, as it is easy to over do it and cause even more problems! 

Simon

[Steensj2004]

1 hour ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

I hope today brings better results for you?

Most of the active shrimp in the video looked normal to me, that happens when changing water etc, but the small ones were acting a bit twitchy!

Go cautiously though, if there haven't been any more loses etc, as it is easy to over do it and cause even more problems! 

Simon

Well, it goes without saying that I WON’T be putting this stuff in my tank again. I dosed even less than suggested, and have diluted it with 12-13 gallons of new water. Things still aren’t right. I’ve lost so many babies and adults, it will take months to recover. I thought there was almost no risk to this method, it took less than a minute for the all to start losing their minds. To give you an idea, as of bedtime last night, all of them were d as till doing a ,”Twitch” type movement, as though they couldn’t regulate their central nervous system. I was never under the impression that when even dozing under the recommendation, it would nuke my tank.

[sdlTBfanUK]

Hopefully you have enough left to reproduce and increase the population soon! Sorry you have had this nightmare and I hope you have better experiences going forward and it doesn't make you want to quit keeping shrimp! I have felt that way myself a few times so can completely sympathise, actually not too far off that myself now??

Simon  

[Steensj2004]

1 hour ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Hopefully you have enough left to reproduce and increase the population soon! Sorry you have had this nightmare and I hope you have better experiences going forward and it doesn't make you want to quit keeping shrimp! I have felt that way myself a few times so can completely sympathise, actually not too far off that myself now??

Simon  

Just pulled out 3 more dead shrimp. I’m not trying to be confrontational here, but the disease thread needs to be updated to reflect this possibility more accurately. This nuked my entire tank, even when dosing at 75% the lowest recommended dose. God knows how many more shrimp might die, still. 

[jayc]

.Will do. Your experience will be noted as a possibility. 

You have had a very bad experience with it. The dose might have been too high, for that I apologize, as that was my suggestion. 

 

[beanbag]

umm, Jayc, did you take into account that in the other thread with oregano oil, the original poster first cut the oil down by approx 90 x with water?

Just for vague reference, API Melafix (melaleuca oil) has a dose of 1% x 5ml per 10 gal.

Here the dose was 90% x 2mL per 12 gal, so...

[jayc]

Yes, or so I thought. The original poster worked in drops. The problem is, 1 drop is not a measurable unit. I had to convert 'drops' into millilitres. 

[Steensj2004]

Brand new babies dropped from the berried female today. Hope they survive. I did another 4.5 gallon water change. I don’t know how much of the oil might still be in the tank. 
 

2 hours ago, jayc said:

.Will do. Your experience will be noted as a possibility. 

You have had a very bad experience with it. The dose might have been too high, for that I apologize, as that was my suggestion. 

 

No, it’s ok. I even dropped the dosage, so I guess we all learned a lesson. You were trying to help me, I’m not mad at you in the least. 
 

The question is, will it fix them? They were exposed to a HIGH dose for 10 minutes or so and subsequently, residual oil for 24 hours....

[jayc]

Just now, Steensj2004 said:

You were trying to help me, I’m not mad at you in the least. 

Thank you for your understanding. That means very much to me.  My intentions were never to harm your shrimp.

Lessons are definitely being learnt here. As I mentioned before, there are no official meds with exact doses for shrimps. So we are learning everyday. If we do nothing, and lose shrimp slowly to bacteria we cannot treat, than we still lose. 

 

3 minutes ago, Steensj2004 said:

The question is, will it fix them?

Do you still see any shrimps with the abnormal colouration? It will take a few days to take affect. So we just need to watch and wait.

[Steensj2004]

Just now, jayc said:

Thank you for your understanding. That means very much to me.  My intentions were never to harm your shrimp.

Lessons are definitely being learnt here. As I mentioned before, there are no official meds with exact doses for shrimps. So we are learning everyday. If we do nothing, and lose shrimp slowly to bacteria we cannot treat, than we still lose. 

 

Do you still see any shrimps with the abnormal colouration? It will take a few days to take affect. So we just need to watch and wait.

Out of the remaining, a few do have discoloration. Time will tell. Should I be doing any other water changes or should what I’ve done be sufficient?

 

i wonder how they came down with this disease. It’s boggling my mind. I read bad water parameters, but I thought my water levels were pretty good?

[jayc]

14 minutes ago, Steensj2004 said:

Should I be doing any other water changes or should what I’ve done be sufficient?

Let's wait and see. However, if any more start dying or showing signs of discomfort, do another water change.

 

14 minutes ago, Steensj2004 said:

i wonder how they came down with this disease. It’s boggling my mind. I read bad water parameters, but I thought my water levels were pretty good?

I have a theory but it's unproven. 

Bacteria in a bottle (powered or liquid) - we add this into the tank to try to seed the tank with beneficial bacteria. But it risks introducing "other" bacteria types. The real aquatic bacteria that breaks down ammonia cannot live in an air tight bottle without ammonia for long. So what really is in those bottles? Anaerobic bacillus should be the dominant strain in the bottle, but what else? Did the manufacturers take that much care to ensure that no other harmful strain was added to the bottle? Do they really test their products after it is bottled that closely? All questions I have no answers for.

Bacteria is everywhere, on our hands, in the water, so it's difficult saying definitively that that is the source, or this is the source of the problem.

Edited January 27, 2020 by jayc

[beanbag]

2 hours ago, Steensj2004 said:

i wonder how they came down with this disease. It’s boggling my mind. I read bad water parameters, but I thought my water levels were pretty good?

Bacteria can simply drift in from the air.  The same reason people are able to get tanks cycling without any additives.

Maybe try something like Eco-Balance, which claims to displace "bad" bacteria.  I don't have proof that it works, though. 

Then there's the "natural" acti-bacterial things like: lower temperature, lower pH, tannins, etc.

[Steensj2004]

I haven’t used any bottled bacteria, I did consider using some in the tank after all this, but decided against it.

 

 

This is really frustrating, but thinks are looking better. Will I need to wait for a moly to see improvement, or should I see improvement before? Should I be providing a calcium supplement?

Edited January 27, 2020 by Steensj2004

[sdlTBfanUK]

I REALLY REALLY hope the new babies survive to boost your population and everything now settles down so you can relax and enjoy them.

Simon

[Steensj2004]

2 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

I REALLY REALLY hope the new babies survive to boost your population and everything now settles down so you can relax and enjoy them.

Simon

Me too. Two more adults dead this AM....

[sdlTBfanUK]

Some of the shrimp will just have been sick by the episode so the odd one or two after the event I would think normal. Fingers crossed for the babies survival!

Simon

[Steensj2004]

1 hour ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Some of the shrimp will just have been sick by the episode so the odd one or two after the event I would think normal. Fingers crossed for the babies survival!

Simon

Well, maybe. But I’m down to maybe 10-12 adult shrimp, and whichever babies MIGHT be hiding/ surviving,some of which still have the shell discoloration. The majority of the ones who have died, are healthy ones that showed no sign of the disease. I’m about ready to give up. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Steensj2004

[Steensj2004]

So.... at what point is it going to be safe to replenish stock? How contagious is this disease.

[sdlTBfanUK]

I would leave restocking as the babies may restock anyway if the survive. I would just carry on as you are for a few weeks and see that everything settles down, you can't rush nature and just adding more may upset everything again. Personally, the approach I am taking at the moment is to almost ignore the tank for 2-3 weeks (I only have a couple of shrimp left anyway) to let nature sort itself out and settle down - also gives me more time to take a break from everything going tits up?  You have more shrimp left than me so you will need to do the regular routine stuff like weekly water change (if you do that) and feeding, less though as you have less shrimps etc.

A lot of things I have learnt is that being human and wanting everything sorted quickly just ends up upsetting everything, we need to be more patient and stop messing with things, especially if it isn't broken (I know yours was broken most likely as the shells were discolored). I should have left my tank alone and not tried to get the Ph up just because it would be better in theory (assuming of coarse that was what went wrong with mine)?

At the stage you are at I would leave well alone unless they continue to die, in which case another slow water change might be a good idea, but that's just the view of someone who has killed more shrimps than I want to admit too, on more than the one occasion over the years, there are lots of people on here with more experience than I.

The thing I (as a novice, especially with cycling) would be a little worried about is if you used this oil that kills bacteria, is the tank/filter cycled still, especially if there is still some oil in the tank or is it going to need time to 'cycle' again? Again, I would just give it time as it is and not think about restocking at this point?

Simon