Guys ,I have found a source of bulk algae wafers, but I am unsure if they would be ok for shrimp.

the ingredients are:- wheat flour, soya bean meal,fish meal, spirulina, kelp powder, ascorbic acid, nicotinic acid, menadione,folic acid,proxine B6,thiamin B1,ribaflav in B2, vitamin B12,choline chioride,iodine antioxidant,vitamin E,vitamin B12 total, vitaminD3, vitamin K3, added vitamin D3,Vitamin A,vitamin B6,vitamin C-EC, dried yeast, wheatgerm,iron,manganous oxide,zinc,mycocurb,biatin,calcium B,panthithenate, cobalt, maganese,selenium,inositol, tixosil. i have asked him if he knows how it is for feeding shrimp, but he has had no knowledge of it being fed to shrimp. This product is Australian made and is about $24.00 kilo.

What do you think?

Ingredients look fine to me.

I think this may be similar to the stuff for a similar price on gumtree down here. I'm interested on the quality of it as I'm keen to only spend 25$ for the BN to eat for a while rather than raging through a few hundred gram bag in a month or so.

If you do decide to get it Wayne you will have to put up a review of it :)

Still thinking about it, I have been checking the ingredients of other commercial wafers today mainly HIKARI ( made in Japan) and TETRAVEGGIE,( made in Germany) and i find that they all have ingredients in common,with just few variations,there are a lot of things in all of them that I have never heard of before, anyway i will check out a few more before I decide to buy.

They have wheat and soya bean listed as the main ingredients, they can't be very nutritious.

They have wheat and soya bean listed as the main ingredients' date=' they can't be very nutritious.[/quote']

Most animal feed has wheat as a main ingredient. All nutrition has to have some kind of a buffer, Otherwise it'd be too high in vitamins and proteins.

In my experience, with these types of algae wafer you get what you pay for. I keep a few L numbers and bristlenoses (catfish) that i bought some cheap algae wafers for. The fish never ate them even after several weeks of trying to wean them onto them. yet they will readily consume any of the regular brand wafers (e.g. Hikari, nutrafin, new era , ect ect) without any hassles. That said I've never specifically used the cheap wafers for shrimp....

My advice, buy quality not quantity.

Most animal feed has wheat as a main ingredient. All nutrition has to have some kind of a buffer' date=' Otherwise it'd be too high in vitamins and proteins.[/quote']

But you don't want it to be the largest ingredient in there, you want something with more nutrition listed first.

Sorry for my spelling, on my phone.

But you don't want it to be the largest ingredient in there' date=' you want something with more nutrition listed first.

Sorry for my spelling, on my phone.[/quote']

* Please don't take my replies the wrong way, I am not trying to argue or be 'that guy' in anyway at all. I really hope you're not taking offense to my replies at all.

The feeds I've made in the past, Which I admit are dairy feeds and not fish feed. Have all been wheat/barley as the main ingredient. Usually around 40% barley and 40% wheat with the remaining 15% being protein and 5% vitamins/fats etc.

Wheat itself contains protein, and also gives fiber which is important in the diet also.

With fish foods and feeding you also don't want to give too high a protein based foods, too often. It's actually not really good for them or the quality of water.

With humans there is a new trend that carbs such as wheat will make you 'fat' and isn't good for you. This is true and false at the same time. Carbs are good for you, If you eat the right balance for your activity level. A guy who works in construction 10 hours a day 6 days a week and works quite hard would require a larger intake of carbs than say an accountant who's most physical activity for the day is walking from the car to the office.

Anyways I'm starting to just ramble here sorry lol.

To put in perspective I have "Hikari algae wafers" infront of me here, These are the ingredients list;

Fish meal, Wheat flour, wheat germ meal, starch, dried seaweed meal, dried bakery products, dehydrated alfalfa meal, alfalfa nutrient concentrate dehydrated, brewers dried yeast, soybean meal...... And more that would take ages to type lol.

As you can see above, Even the more expensive brands are made up primarily of wheat. The fact they list fish meal first doesn't mean it's the largest ingredient. Esp when you take into account it has; Wheat flour, Wheat germ, Starch, and dried bakery products.

Once again I'm not trying to 'be that guy' or have an argument or upset you in anyway. Please don't take offense to my replies.

Ok guys we are talking about shrimp here. my bloke has given me the ingredients that he uses in his home made algae wafers, that he uses for his own bns etc his product is non commercial. He has used the same recepie for years. He is willing to try and make a spacific wafer for shrimp, It would be great if you could tell me what you think should be added or deleated from the current ingredients listed in my post. I have also checked out the ingredients on leading algae wafer products and find that they all have the same basic ingredients, with just variations in the added vitamins etc. There is always the chance to improve on what is on offer commercial so lets see if we can get something going and possibly save some $$$$ in the process.

By the way I have been told that SPIRULINA is possibly the most important ingredient of them all, and is present in all of the commercial algae wafers.

Regards

Ok guys we are talking about shrimp here. my bloke has given me the ingredients that he uses in his home made algae wafers' date=' that he uses for his own bns etc his product is non commercial. He has used the same recepie for years. He is willing to try and make a spacific wafer for shrimp, It would be great if you could tell me what you think should be added or deleated from the current ingredients listed in my post. I have also checked out the ingredients on leading algae wafer products and find that they[b'] all have the same basic ingredients, with just variations in the added vitamins etc. There is always the chance to improve on what is on offer commercial so lets see if we can get something going and possibly save some $$$$ in the process.

By the way I have been told that SPIRULINA is possibly the most important ingredient of them all, and is present in all of the commercial algae wafers.

Regards

They wouldn't be 'algae' wafers without Spirulina, All the ingredients are important.

To change or make a recipe for Shrimps, You first have to work out what nutritional values you are aiming for. Then what vitamins and minerals you're wanting to feed them and at what rates.

The first 3 things are going to be, Protein, Fat and Fiber. These are really the 'main' ingredients but only in the fact that they're the ones that make up the majority of the feed. That doesn't mean it's the most important. Just the most used.

Then you're wanting to look at the Vitamins and Minerals such as calcium, sodium, Vitamins E, C, A, D3, K etc, Then you have things like Zinc. These may be smaller amounts when compared with things like wheat. But that doesn't make them any 'less important' but just that it requires less amounts to achieve the rate in which you're looking for.

There really is no 'simple' answer or way to change a formula to make it more 'specific' for Shrimps. You really need to first work out what the optimal levels or needs for Shrimps are. Which I don't so I couldn't say "Oh increase the calcium and drop the zinc and yadda yadda" because I have no idea what the best values are for Shrimps. I wouldn't imagine many people actually would even in the Nutritional circles. They're not as common as humans, cats, dogs, horses, cows etc.

The only thing I can really say is that the ingredients you've posted are all shrimp safe.

Not many people will be able to give you a formulation perfect for Shrimps unless you know the nutritionist that works for a company such as Hikari.

Sorry, I hope I explained this well. Sometimes I have a hard time trying to explain things.

Mate you have done very well with your explanations, I am most gratefull. I think I might have to do a bit of industrial esponage and try and find out some of Hikari Secrets, I wonder if they would tell me over the phone:cower: Stranger things have happened! I still intend to try and work out a formula for the wafers so if you have any ideas let me know

Regards

No worries buddy, I'll see what information I can track down and try do some research for you also.

Best of luck.

I am once bitten twice shy on cheep wafers, we had a aquarium shop and tried some cheep stuff, the shrimp and fish sort of chewed on them and left a bl..dy great mess on the bottom of the tank.

Bottom line, it depends on what your fish are use to eating and if you can get a custom wafer made it HAS to be better even if it has to be stored in the fridge because it dose not have the preservatives in it.

Bob

To true Bob, but I still think that with a little bit of effort even the best product can be improved, so no harm in trying!Remember the stuff that we buy is not supposed to have preservatives in them and are dried.In Time I will come up with something , I enjoy the challenge.

From personal observations and video, shrimp are grazers and feed all over aquatic vegetation, rocks, algae and leaves, from that I have formed to opinion that they eat algae and Bi cover, but given the opportunity they will jump over any meaty bait provided (by me), I would think shrimp world wide are the same so if you could find out what the Bi cover is that might help you in your formulation?,

I would think the shrimp foods already on the market will have colour food in them to.

Bob

The biocover or biofilm to which you refer is composed of bacteria, diatoms, algae and little animals that form a layer on any surface submerged in water. These films are very variable, meaning that biofilms from different objects can have vastly different compositions of these organisms. For example two different rocks that are next to each other in a stream will likely have completely different organisms that create the biofilms growing on them due to slight differences such as water flow, light/dark, what colonises the rocks first, ect ect.

My point is that given this variability, there is no way to get an accurate idea of the nutritional values of these biofilms. Also the shrimp may not eat all of the biofilms but only eat certain bits e.g. the algae and some bacteria, avoiding the diatoms. You can get around this by growing your own biofilms, e.g. growing algae on rocks.

This is turning out just the way I was thinking, and it gets back to the very basics of shrimp care and tank set up, my point "IF" a tank is left to" naturally" evolve, and conditions are right, then all of the required food and food groups for our shrimps should naturally occur. Depending on your tanks population, our feeding regime should only be supplementry, and our little friends would be eating food that would be natural.

When I had my crayfish farm I would often dump a couple of wheel barrow full of cow or horse manure into the ponds, The crays would be climbing over each other to get to it. Whenever I fed them prepared foods ,it was just an ordinary easy procession to the food. What I am getting at is that decaying vegetable matter, common grasses, seeds, fruit etc

could be the key to good nutritional food supplements for the shrimp,and it is right under our noses, and there may not be a need to buy as much expensive commercially prepared food. The old bit of cow dung could be the basic ingredent to my new food !!!!! Wafer etc:DLOOK OUT COWS HERE I COME SHOVEL IN HAND!!!:triumphant:

P.s I will be picking up a little cow droppings this arvo and see how my shrimp like it:encouragement: I used cow and horse dung to seed my new ponds as well. I might try it for my next new shrimp tank ???

This is turning out just the way I was thinking, and it gets back to the very basics of shrimp care and tank set up, my point "IF" a tank is left to" naturally" evolve, and conditions are right, then all of the required food and food groups for our shrimps should naturally occur. Depending on your tanks population, our feeding regime should only be supplementry, and our little friends would be eating food that would be natural.

You can have a small 20-30L tank with 5-10 Shrimps and let them live off the biofilm etc. A small feed of supplemental food will also increase their health and happiness. But you could leave them with only natural food for several weeks quite easily. However you'd want things like plants esp mosses and driftwood etc for them to feed on.

When I had my crayfish farm I would often dump a couple of wheel barrow full of cow or horse manure into the ponds, The crays would be climbing over each other to get to it. Whenever I fed them prepared foods ,it was just an ordinary easy procession to the food. What I am getting at is that decaying vegetable matter, common grasses, seeds, fruit etc could be the key to good nutritional food supplements for the shrimp,and it is right under our noses, and there may not be a need to buy as much expensive commercially prepared food. The old bit of cow dung could be the basic ingredent to my new food !!!!! Wafer etc:DLOOK OUT COWS HERE I COME SHOVEL IN HAND!!!:triumphant:P.s I will be picking up a little cow droppings this arvo and see how my shrimp like it:encouragement: I used cow and horse dung to seed my new ponds as well. I might try it for my next new shrimp tank ???

You may enjoy reading this article; http://www.fao.org/docrep/field/003/AC249E/AC249E00.htmI'm kinda skeptical about adding manure into a tank. I worry about the Nitrogen side of things, And the alkalinity.

Hi triggs,it is an interesting artical,I do remember reading it some time back, very enlightening, I am not to worried about the nitrogen and alkalinity when i add the manure as i will only be adding a very little to the tanks about 1 tsp per 2ft tank. Cherries are a hardy lot and should be able to stand the increases if any.Obviously going by the above report there is a lot of good to be had by adding small amounts of manure as a food supliment to your tanks.

Cow pats = algae wafers? same shape LOL.

I think if you could get a break down on bio cover from a number of places and take a average food value you might be onto some thing, but yes we don't know what the shrimp a picking off, dam they work hard at it to.

It is some thing that could be debated all day, so it comes down to what works for you, me I do the slack approach.

Bob

Interesting result from my cow poo test, used about a t/s full of dried cow poo in a small bag submerged it , not much reaction from the shrimp untill about 12 hours, about a dozen on the bag. Did the same with some fresh poo and almost instant swarming over the bag obviously fresh is best. Don't know where to go from here , except to collect small amounts of cow dung once a week to give them a treat and find out some way to feed it to them without it stuffing up the water?

I've just recently received some local made Algae wafers I got of a guy from gumtree to try out, till now I was using Hakari and OSI but thought that at this price it couldn't hurt to try them out. These are 'PETS' branded and so far so good, Only using them in the main tank that hasn't got any crystals in it (didn't want to chance losing any of them)

They don't cloud the water or turn to mush, if anything they hold together a bit better than the Hakari and even my peps seem to like them.

I have listed the ingredients below and although it lists copper as one I have not experienced any issues (I have found that most foods do but not at a level that's harmful to shrimp. Or at least I hope that is the case)

This is the ingredient list

Crude Protein min 35%

Crude fat min 5%

Crude Fibre max 4%

Moisture max 8%

Wheat flour

Soya bean meal

Fish meal

Spirulina

Kelp flour

Ascorbic acid

Nicotinic Acid

Menadione

Folic Acid

Pyridoxine B6

Thiamin B1

Riboflavin B2

Vitamin B12

Chlorine Chloride

Iodine

Antioxidant

Vitamin E

Vitamin B2 Total

Vitamin D3

Vitamin K3

Vitamin A

Vitamin B6

Vitamin B12

Vitamin C-EC

Dried Yeast

Wheat germ

Copper

Iron

Manganous Oxide

Zinc

Mycocurb

Biotin

Calcium B

Pantothenate

Cobalt

Maganese

Selenium

Inositol

Tixosil

Vitamin B2

Vitamin D3

These wafers u are talking about the pets ones i bought ten kg for 150 .wen i got them i had alot of wafers so i have been trying to move a few at 20 .anyway my red cherrys can not get enough of them it brings them out of hideing itgoes from around 200 to over a 1000 every size eats them even the crs get in there only thing they like better is crushed snails .