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Don't know if this help much but I found this grading graph on FB the other day & I would think that "lined" & "saddled" would be KK pattern & "banded" would be panda pattern, thoughts?

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Great questions Ineke! Ive been wondering about the same things lately and it's been great to read through and learn from everyone's answers. Think I'll bookmark this topic, so I can find it easier, as I reckon I'll be referring back to it a lot

With the amount of crossing and selling of low grade and culls the quality is on a down hill trend as we have seen with cherrys and cbs/crs .The only thing now I do is Don't trust anybody for there word unless you have delt with them before with no drama on quality .But saying that when money is involved you still may even get stung.

Ok, so I thought I'd contribute to this thread & share a pic & info from a friend of the forum Chris Lukhaup, should help people ID some problems with this excellent quality macro shot. 1. Vorticellidae 2. Fungus 3. Ramularia/Cephalosporium 4. Some kind of parasitic worm(not sure what family it belongs to)

yes Chi this type and others that are similar, I know they are now on the chart so therefore accepted as TB.If you look at our discussions about TB /TBM /TBMM back in 2012/13 when admittedly we didn't have as much variety -the defining characteristic between TB etc and Mischling was the black face. Now we have pure Tb with white face- so what now defines a mischling from a TBM/TBMM especially as the quality of the Mischlings is so much better now -depth of colour on some is really really good.. It is just getting harder to know which are true TB. Then the Pinto gene- can a TB with pinto gene be a pure TB? Isn't it accepted that the Pinto comes from mixed genetics? So when a pure Tb with Pinto genes is offered up for sale -what is it it really? It's all just food for thought I'm not trying to be difficult just trying to get my head around it. It is good to get people discussing this , getting their thoughts and setting standards.

so true guys it is hard to prove exotic genes in the shrimp you buy you are really at the mercy of the seller and hope they are honest, grading KK I use a method that was used to determine a few of my early ones by a couple of the top European breeders to be a KK none of the white bands can go all the way around the body the only exception would be a very thin tail band in a 2 stripe KK. I know a lot of people seem to use a percentage of black 70% plus makes it kk that is confusing and too vague that's why I like the band method simple and easy if the bands go around Panda if they don't KK yes it does mean you get a lot less kk but the ones you do are spectacular and there is no argument as there is no interpretations its simple and visual.

yeah i was going to say you might as well use railway sleepers haha

I have been participating in some of the Auctions and agree, some of the items listed are questionable. I have noticed since I started listing mine as Tbm and with parentage listed I have recieved many pms asking what Tbm means. I have started seeing others using it now. I guess it is just setting the example and hoping others will follow suit. That's where this forum is extra important as the newbies can learn what to look for prior to purchase.

Unfortunately I didn't buy the magazine so didn't see the article. I will just have to move with the times and accept that thoughts change as the hobby progresses. i basically was a bit more worried about newcomers buying shrimp that may not be what they think they are. It all goes back to trust in the breeder/seller. As I said I won't be selling mine- classic shrimp hoarder me - but it would be good to know.