Definition of Aged Tank

[Charis]

I'm totally new to shrimp keeping and have some shrimp currently being mailed to me.  I've heard they are particularly susceptible to new tank syndrome and I was wondering if someone could shed a little light on this for me.  If I take an existing cycled aquarium, add new substrate and plants, and then some of the old water back in.... would this still be too "new" for them?  I guess I'm trying to find out what the general problem is.  Is it typically poor cycling or lack of biofilm for them to eat?  How many things can be "new" in a tank and still have them thrive, provided the water parameters are correct?

 

I want to make sure I have an appropriate environment for them when they arrive!  Thanks for your input!

[OzShrimp]

The cycling process is the same with ammonia going to nitrites and then nitrates. If you have established bacteria colony in your filters then that is a good head start. Now depending on the substrate that you add to the tank and how well established your bacteria is you may very well experience ammonia spikes which can be harmful to your shrimp.

 

The problem when you get new shrimp is ensuring that they are acclimated properly and slowly. If you just float your bag in your tank for 15 minutes and release them like many people would a simple fish then you can pretty much guarantee your shrimp will die. This is because they are sensitive and there is likely to be a difference in tank perimeters between that of the seller and your own.

 

The other thing which affects this process is the fact that the shrimp will be stressed. To better increase the chances of survival people use different acclimating techniques. The most basic one is putting the shrimp in a bucket or container in the water they are sent in then put some air hose in your tank and on the opposite end tie a loose not allowing you to control the rate in which your tank water drips into the container.

 

You will want to start off with something like 1 drop per second. Using this method i would recommend letting it drip at that rate for atleast 30-45 minutes before increasing the drip rate slightly.

 

An easier way i like to use is to utilise an external satellite breeder box. If you have one of these make sure its empty and pour the bag water into it with yoru shrimp. Adjust the flow into the bag to be towards the lower end. Then over the space of a couple of hours increase the flow into the box before it is running on full. Wait 12-24 hrs to ensure your tank water has fully gone through a couple of times and then i just scoop them out and pop them straight in the tank,

 

Hope that helps, now some questions.

 

How big is the tank you are using?

What sort of soil are you using?

What sort of filtration are you running and has it been used previously with other tank occupants ?

If not who did you previously cycle your tank and how long for ?

If your able to post your tank perimeters to that can help us assess your tanks current standing. Ammona, nitrite, nitrate, ph, and tds, gh, kh if you have the means to check them :)

 

Also what sort of shrimp are you buying?

:)

[Charis]

Thanks for the response!

 

I have three new types of shrimp coming.  Well, two actual types... but three colours.  ;)  CRS SS+, Orange Rili, Dream Blue Velvets.  I understand the neos should be more straight forward, but the CRS quite complex.  I didn't purchase many CRS because I know there is a high chance I won't do well with them.  :(  However, I hope to do enough things right that I give them a good chance!

 

They will each be in a 10G planted tank.  They have a mix of plants, Malaysian drift wood and moss.  The substrate is (and will be added in 2 of the tanks) black sand with fluorite.  The filtration is cycled sponge filters.  I do have HOBs I can add, if you think this is beneficial, but they are not cycled at this time.  There are currently Bettas in the tanks keeping them cycled.... they've been in the tanks for several months.  

 

Currently the water parameters are not in an acceptable range for any of the shrimp (pH 8+, TDS 245, KH12, GH12).  My RO unit just arrived tonight and I spent the evening getting it up and running.  Tomorrow I plan to play with the parameters using a mix of tap and RO, if at all possible.  I may have to go with straight RO and some sort of salty shrimp mix?  

 

I do not have a satellite breeding box, unfortunately.  I've read that putting the shrimp in a container and letting a tied off airline tubing drip water in at about 1 drop/second is a good method.  Would you advise this?  

 

Thank you!

[newbreed]

Welcome Charis! Prior to having the external breeder box I acclimatised just as you have said. Shrimp in original water in a container/bucket, then using airline (with flow valve ideally) you drip about a drop per second for first hour, then can increase from then on. Once I had more tank water than original water I moved them in.

 

I used to only take a couple of hours for neos (cherries) and four-five for Crystals and TB (Caridina).

 

Best to take the extra time if you are unsure of the original tank's water parameters.

 

With the external breeder it is easier as you can leave it attached and let them adjust over a 24 hour period, to ensure they have adjusted well prior to adding to tank.

 

Hope others can offer up advice too!! Enjoy!!

[Charis]

Thank you for the info!  I actually wouldn't have thought to give the Caridinas several more hours of acclimatization than the noes... so I'm really glad you mentioned that.  I'm sure they are thankful, as well.  ;)

 

Other than uncertain water parameters (which is a large, glaring problem!), are there any other issues you can see from my post above?  

 

Thank you so much!

[jayc]

I do the same as Newbreed describes, except I place more stringent conditions to drip acclimatising the new shrimp I introduce.

 

Test TDS, pH and GH of the original water it came in.

I then drip acclimatise for 10 hours <-- slower rate of change. 

Keep an eye on the external bucket or breeder box, ensuring it's not too hot (summer) or too cold (winter).

The bucket with the new shrimp is in a blacked out environment <-- ie. no bright lights

An air stone pumping air is included for my extended acclimatising duration.

At around the 8 hour mark, I will test the water the shrimp is in to ensure that TDS now closely matches the tank water. 

pH and GH should be very close by this time when 2-3 times the amount of tank water is now in the bucket with the new shrimp.

If TDS is not close to the tank water at the 8hr mark, I'll increase drip rate for the next 2 hours.

 

I pay more attention to matching TDS than any other parameter when I drip acclimatise shrimp.

I've adopted this for any new fish I get as well.

 

I believe the pH shock people talk about when introducing fish to new tanks, is really TDS shock.

 

The last time I bought a fish from the fish store, the water from the LFS was 7-ish pH. But guess what, the TDS was a ridiculous 400+.

By comparison, my amazonian tank pH was 6.8, with a TDS of 160 - 165.

Guess which parameter would be the "shock"?

It's not a once off occurrence, I'm convinced most LFS don't test TDS in their own tanks.

Edited December 4, 2014 by jayc

[jc12]

Sorry I have a question... I have always read that when you acclimatise a fish, you should not mix the water from the bag into your aquarium so as not to introduce diseases, etc.

 

In this case for a shrimp acclimatising in an external breeder box (the kind of breeder box with an air lift and water is returned to the aquarium), wouldn't this method introduce the water that came with the shrimp into the aquarium? Or does the above rule only apply to fishes?

[Proto]

Disease in the water would be in the livestock (they may just be immune to it) so adding them to your aquarium would introduce the disease either way.

[Charis]

Jayc,  Thank you for the added info.  I can see that testing the parameters they came in, midway and after is a great practice!  The longer drip/acclimatization time can't hurt either, only help.  So, all of those things sound really good!   I'll likely have to find some way to regulate the temperature in the "transition bowl"... float it in a secondary heated tank on the floor or something.  What can I say, it's Canada and we specialize in winter temperatures.  :(  I'll keep your thoughts on TDS in mind,  too.  It's good to know as I would have been far more focused on pH, GH and KH.  

 

What are your thoughts on my sand/flourite substrate.  Any idea if the fluorite will have any negative implications, or is this an acceptable substrate for shrimp?

 

jc12, you are right about not wanting that foreign water in your tank!  I don't know anything about the satellite breeders, but I'm guessing there must be a way to only let them take water in and not out, because I can't imagine anyone letting it flow through.  I have no idea how it works, though!  Maybe these guys can shed some light.

[jayc]

What are your thoughts on my sand/flourite substrate.  Any idea if the fluorite will have any negative implications, or is this an acceptable substrate for shrimp?

 

jc12, you are right about not wanting that foreign water in your tank!  I don't know anything about the satellite breeders, but I'm guessing there must be a way to only let them take water in and not out, because I can't imagine anyone letting it flow through.  I have no idea how it works, though!  Maybe these guys can shed some light.

 

Isn't flourite high in iron (ferric) ?

I think it is. Others might be able to comment on it, but I'd avoid a substrate that is high in metals of any kind. 

No scientific evidence, just a personal preference for a shrimp tank.

You'd have no issues with a fish and planted tank. But I've never tried high iron substrate for shrimp.

However, if you are spending money on substrate, you might as well spend it on substrate that will help with buffer the water to a lower pH. A lower pH will suit CRS better. The cherries can adapt to the lower pH.

 

Flourite won't alter pH at all. 

 

Back to the subject of drip acclimatising ... I use an external box or bucket. So no foreign water is introduced. When the drip period is up I net the shrimp into their new home.

[Charis]

Hmmmm.... that's interesting in regards to the fluorite, and unfortunate.  I was hoping to avoid buying different substrates, as I have sand, fluorite, regular aquarium gravel and a tiny river rock gravel on hand.  I have heard good things about amazonia... but at $50 a bag, it made me choke a little to think about it.  Of course, if it was a long lasting solution, encouraged the shrimp to reproduce and kept the pH down, it would be worth it.  Having something to encourage lower pH can only help as I know that's what I will constantly be struggling with.  We have such hard water and high pH here, it's silly.

 

In regards to the potential iron in the fluorite... what do you think that might do?  Kill the shrimp?  Make them more reluctant to reproduce?  Affect the TDS?  

 

Thank you for all the info!  I can't tell you how much better I feel about acclimatizing them after hearing all of this!

[jayc]

Having something to encourage lower pH can only help as I know that's what I will constantly be struggling with. We have such hard water and high pH here, it's silly.

Then all the more to use the right substrate.

Can you get Cal Labs Black Earth Premium.

I don't know what would happen to shrimp in too much iron. Maybe nothing.

If you try it let us know.

Edited December 4, 2014 by jayc

[OzShrimp]

I dont worry about mixing the shrimp water which comes in the bag and i know i am not the only one on here with that stand point. As it helps your shrimp build immunity if there is anything in the water either way and can go towards making more resilient shrimp.

[Charis]

Alright, thanks everyone.  I can't get Cal Labs Black Earth Premium here.  I think I am going to try out the fluorite/sand mix.  There is considerably more sand in the tank than fluorite, so we'll see how it goes.  If the water parameters do not remain manageable, I may have to switch this up.

 

I have a question about TDS.  When I posted my parameters above, I posted the my tap water TDS.  As this is what I was putting in my tank, in addition to Prime, I thought that the TDS of my tanks would be close.  Boy was I wrong… beginner's mistake!  Every tank I have has an incredibly high TDS and I can't figure it out!  I need to find out why this is happening so I can manage these shrimp, who really want the TDS to stay low!

 

I have a barebottom Betta fry grow-out.  The only contents are the fish themselves, sponge filters, a thermometer and hornwort.  The TDS in this tank is over 600.

 

I also have several other bare bottom tanks with javamoss and malaysian driftwood, sponge filters and thermometers.  The TDS in these tanks is over 800!

 

How is this possible when the water going in is around 260?  The driftwood seems to shed little red pieces of itself all of the bottom of the tank, but these get vacuumed up with the weekly siphoning.  My fry tank gets cleaned out with large water changes ever 2-3 days, to encourage growth.  So, I wouldn't think either of these have a huge organic waste component.  None of the tanks are very dirty and they get very regular cleanings and maintenance.   What am I missing here?  Why is the TDS to high compared to the tank water and how in the world do I maintain it at a lower level in the shrimp tanks?  Will this happen more easily because I'm using RO water instead of tap?  Will the lower pH maintain a more unchanging TDS?

 

Thank you!

Edited December 5, 2014 by Charis

[Charis]

Hmmmm… the more I read, I wonder if some of this is an evaporation issue?  The air is incredibly dry here and I lose several inches of water out of each tank between water changes.  Ah!  Of course!  I add a lot of AQ salt to these tanks.  What was I thinking?  Phew.  That problem may be solved.  

[jayc]

That problem may be solved.

Yep, that would be the cause of your high TDS.

[Charis]

How do freshwater shrimp handle aquarium salt?  I have no intention of purposely adding AQ salt to the neo/caridina aquariums in the future, but I know some went in with my cycled sponge filters and in some of the old aquarium water I used to partially fill the tanks and keep the bacteria going until the shrimp arrive tomorrow.  Is it necessary that I do a 100% water change to get rid of it?  If the TDS is in an acceptable range, does it matter?  Thanks!

[Charis]

Well, thank you all for your help.  My shrimp arrived yesterday.  Not a single DOA, which amazed me.  Both the neos and the CRS seem to have acclimatized well and are very busy cleaning their tanks!

 

One of my tanks had some ammonia present when I checked the levels, prior to adding any shrimp, because of this.  I placed the 10 Blue Dream neos in an internal breeder box in the stable tank with the Orange Rilis.  Will they be fine there for a bit, or will the small space be a problem?  It's only about 6 inches x 4 x 5 and I've placed some moss and another plant in there with them.   

[jayc]

How do freshwater shrimp handle aquarium salt?  I have no intention of purposely adding AQ salt to the neo/caridina aquariums in the future, but I know some went in with my cycled sponge filters and in some of the old aquarium water I used to partially fill the tanks and keep the bacteria going until the shrimp arrive tomorrow.  Is it necessary that I do a 100% water change to get rid of it?  If the TDS is in an acceptable range, does it matter?  Thanks!

 

Certainly not good for the long term. Just do your normal water change routine, but change a bit more like 20% instead of 10% until you get TDS down to an acceptable level.

 

 

 

 

  I placed the 10 Blue Dream neos in an internal breeder box in the stable tank with the Orange Rilis.  Will they be fine there for a bit, or will the small space be a problem?  It's only about 6 inches x 4 x 5 and I've placed some moss and another plant in there with them.   

 

I don't think the size of the breeder box will matter as long as the water quality is good.