Mischlings F7

[newbreed]

I was lucky enough to get my hands on some of Chi's F7 Mischlings earlier in the year. There are some beauties.

Couple of questions I have though:

Does the phenotype of the mischling have much bearing on the offspring produced?

I am still, very slow, getting the hang of sexing shrimp. So I took the lazy way and have left them all together and separating out the girls as they berry, there are still some smaller ones I am unsure of. The offspring from these would be considered F1 again, right? Its amazing, I have spotted a few TBMM in the shrimplets, possibly Shadow KK!!

Here are some photos of my two favourites, based on potential:

He has a strange look due to the clear sections running through his markings, almost tiger-like

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This guy has the clear through most of his body, except his head and red sections on back

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Apologies for the rubbish images!

I was uncertain if this is the right location for this, but thought they are a variation on the TB. Happy to move post if needed.

[newbreed]

A couple of the bubs from F7 x F7 mischling cross:

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Amazing what gets thrown..

[ineke]

Congratulations Jamie! It's exciting with Mischlings because you never know what you might get!

[newbreed]

Thanks Ineke! I spend most of my time checking their tank, in case I missed one of the bubs. Its so hard to tell how many there are at this stage, only a couple of weeks old. They are all so different.

[Squiggle]

Awesome stuff dude, love the KK! :encouragement:

[Kev]

Looking good mate.

any update.?

[newbreed]

Bubs are growing slowly! Frustrating I can't find the KK anywhere, but considering the section is heavily planted and the substrate, dividers and back of tank are black, it's not surprising I cant see it! Have one female Mischling getting close to dropping another round of eggs, noticed three very dark eggs in the mix! Fingers crossed.

[Kev]

Found the kk yet?

[newbreed]

:unhappy:No!

But have some really interesting patterned bubs growing out! Will post some more pics next week.

I think I may have just found a pattern I need to work with further. I like it anyway, more to follow...

Edited May 9, 2014 by newbreed

[slin1977]

@newbreed , mate I don't know the answer to your original question however I have thought about it a lot over the past few months.... Interestingly some certain ingredients are needed to unlock certain phenotypes... Take for instance King Kong Mosura , my logic to get that pattern tells me that a mosura type pattern needs to cross with King Kong . Perhaps the mishlings we wish to produce need to come from certain heritage to begin with.

Since F1 generally are a scramble of the parentage only in F2 do you see the alleles combine giving phenotypes of the original parents. Certain traits are Y linked and certain traits are X linked. That's why some breeders recommend trying a cross a certain way. Take for instance crossing OEBT male x CRS female some say that this produces the best looking Tibee. Now if you reverse this cross using CRS male x OEBT female some say that that is the first step in the pinto recipe. Of course I may be wrong with this speculation but what I do know from my guppy / endler breeding program is there are a lot of traits passed on from males ie finnage and colour from females. My cross between japan blue double sword and ATFG blue grass high dorsal in F2 resulted in japan blue grass with size of double sword tail and none of the high dorsal traits being passed on as the X linked female clearly does not pass on those genes , just the colour traits.

Knowing what works, which way can save a breeder a lot of time and effort. My results were confirmed by a breeder called Phillip Shaddock who spent a couple of years testing many crosses.

What we are up against is dealing with a gene pool of a small population of CRS and CBS , mixed with SW , GW etc etc. Our hobby is maybe ten years old.... The guppy hobby is a century old where people have bred out the stray genes to a pure phenotype where you breed a blue grass to blue grass and you get say 98 percent pure blue grass every time.

This is happening in our hobby too, with some concentrating on PRL and PBL etc etc and pure TB.

I guess by using these pure strains can we decipher how genetic traits behave.

I encourage people to follow the holy grail in creating a Pure strain that replicates itself time and time again, this can only lead to stronger competition amongst breeders and those that show off their stock, for me until I find what I am looking for , my shrimp need to be polymorphic until I stumble across that next "pinto"

[newbreed]

Thanks slin1977.

 

I am a big fan of Phillip Shaddock. Prior to shrimp, guppies were my main love. Have had a great time line breeding for different traits and found the insights he shared in his publications to be invaluable.

 

The pattern I am looking at in the F1 (F7 x F7 offspring is below). I was just wondering if I was to stabilise it over a few generations whether it could ever be considered a CRS line again? I just love this pattern, especially the band near the tail. There seems to be two CRS type and one CBS type with the same markings.

Thoughts??

Edited May 9, 2014 by newbreed

[Squiggle]

I'm guessing that it would take a fair few generations to secure the CRS line back again, then a few more after that of true breeding to be sure. It's like the old mathematical problem, how many times do you halve 1 to get 0, half of 1 is 1/2, half of 1/2 is 1/4, half of 1/4 is 1/8, half of that is 1/16...........well you get where I'm going with this, no matter how many times you halve it you will never actually reach 0 & it's pretty much the same with genetics, except when you get really close to 0 you will get 100% phenotype CRS. I hope I didn't melt too many brains with this one.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Squiggle

[slin1977]

Since you are a guppy fanatic you would appreciate some of the writing from Midge Hill, sure ....setting your strain wouldn't be too hard.

I would like to test out those methods myself however I still have a long long way to go before I get to set a strain.

[Kev]

I'm guessing that it would take a fair few generations to secure the CRS line back again, then a few more after that of true breeding to be sure. It's like the old mathematical problem, how many times do you halve 1 to get 0, half of 1 is 1/2, half of 1/2 is 1/4, half of 1/4 is 1/8, half of that is 1/16...........well you get where I'm going with this, no matter how many times you halve it you will never actually reach 0 & it's pretty much the same with genetics, except when you get really close to 0 you will get 100% phenotype CRS. I hope I didn't melt too many brains with this one.

I still can't get to 0 yet,,, dam you squiggle. I've been up all night :(

[Kev]

Any twb coming out yet;)

[newbreed]

No!!!! Only had a handful of girl Mischlings originally, gave a few away and have moved all the mischlings to new tanks in the rack too, so they have slowed their saddling, hope to see berries each morning but nothing more yet.

 

I am not good at being patient but these shrimp are teaching me the hard way!!!

 

The only shrimplets that made it to the rack all seem to be F1s, no obvious TBM!! All in good time!

[poeticwinter]

same here im unpatient when waiting especially 30 days to hatching and cant see baby twb cause hiding or anything else haha... did u post your rack photo? im thinking to getting rack, but still not sure what kind rack. looking some it looking dull hahaha... and i only have space max 80cm wide lol

 

 

No!!!! Only had a handful of girl Mischlings originally, gave a few away and have moved all the mischlings to new tanks in the rack too, so they have slowed their saddling, hope to see berries each morning but nothing more yet.

 

I am not good at being patient but these shrimp are teaching me the hard way!!!

 

The only shrimplets that made it to the rack all seem to be F1s, no obvious TBM!! All in good time!