Phosphates Vs Shrimps

[BlueBolts]

Phosphates are NOT often discussed within the shrimp world, and NOT as critical to Ammonia, Nitrites & Nitrates, BUT I thought I’d start this thread for us ALL to share thoughts, facts/science and/or experience on phosphates.

Phospahtes (phosphorus) is a essential nutrient for aquatiuc plans and animals, BUT high phosphate (PO4), and nitrates can cause moulting issues to shrimps. Phosphates are also known to reduce/stop the reproductivity of shrimps.

Phosphate are introduced via access food and products containing it, i.e. some plant fertilizer. In nature, we find only low concentrations of PO4: average is 0.01 mg/L in freshwater. Plants and algae are well adapted and need only very few concentration of Phosphate. In extreme circumstances, phosphate levels in tanks can raise up to 100 times more! High Phosphate leads to algae bloom, and most algae can even store phosphate ‘for bad times’. A level of 0.4 mg/L in fish tanks is mostly considered as acceptable; however, we prefer to keep it even lower in shrimp dedicated tanks (< 0.2 mg / L).

Phosphates can be removed by ….

· water changes (assuming it doesn’t contain PO4

· reduce feeding

· introducing plants (absorbs phosphates)

· remove dead plant

· use PO4 removers

· use Zeolite

· RO /Di system will remove PO4 from tap water

As mentioned, please add your thoughts, so that we can expand our understanding on the effects of phosphates to shrimps....

[Heavyd]

BB, you always come up with inciteful information/articles. May I ask where you found out about nitrates and phosphates effect on shrimp moulting etc? I would be very interested to read more about their physiology.

Cheers,

D

[BlueBolts]

2-3 years ago, I researched and discussed/challenged many of the WP issues with a professor of marine biology, and he was travelling the world setting up and advsiing on shrimp/fish farms/aquaculture...etc.... I'm sure if you googled it, there'll be some info/studies on this....

[Heavyd]

Damn, here I was thinking I could get away with a short-cut.

Off to google I go.

[KiwiBigD]

Yeah, come on Marcus, we're lazy, we don't do research. You need to gift wrap it, lay it out in 10 easy steps and solve world peace at the same time ;-) Thats all, no pressure.

I grow a lot of plants in our tanks and I'm not finding they remove high volumes of phosphates, its actually an issue I have in 3 particular tanks and reducing them is a long slow process. Plants do assist but it depends on the particular plant species as to how well they process. Anubia's and Buces I'm finding will process a reasonable amount, whereas mosses just don't. I'm trying a couple of rotala's to see how they go with them but water changes in this case are your friend, you're reach a tipping point as we did in another tank where the tank literally cleared in 48 hours.

Do you know of any good phosphate removal media we can add to say an external HOB or Cannister Filter to assist with this?

[ineke]

My question is do they need phosphate? My tank that has breeding issues as in haven't bred in the 6 months I've had them and the phosphate level is 0- tested by LFS with a newly opened API test kit.

[KiwiBigD]

No, shrimps do not need phosphates, an excess of phosphates can result in green water, makes it really hard to see the shrimp then :-(

[ineke]

Thanks BigD. Slowly working our way to see how to get these beasties to breed -1 step at a time:D

[northboy]

Get it tested with another kit Ineke, I always use 2 different brand kits as some can have faulty readings

One overlooked thing is, High Phosphates makes Aquatic critters nervous and they act out of character, learn what is normal for you critters and that will tell you when something is wrong, you just got to learn there speak LOL

[jayc]

Phosphate sources include:

• uneaten food
  
• plant decay
  
• dying algae
  
• fish feces
  
• dead fish
  
• carbon filter media
  
• aquarium salts
  
• pH buffers
  
• kH buffers
  
• water itself
  

Nothing beats a regular regime of tank maintenance.

Water change regularly.

Feed sparingly.

Substrate vacumm occasionally.

Review your food and change if needed. - I listed some natural foods with their PO4 content in the "Food & Nutrition" section.

Check your water source for PO4.

General tank maintenance and removal of debris.

Filter cleaning regularly.

Carbon as Filter media - Carbon is a good filter media, but it can add phosphate to the water column. Some carbon media, such as those for saltwater aquaria, is formulated specifically to not leach phosphates into the water. Others combine carbon media with phosphate absorbers so you get the best of both.

And if you really have to use a Phosphate removal media, be prepared to pay big bucks.

Good ones are usually catered towards the Marine aquarium. So start looking there.

Good ones include (but not limited to) -

Brightwell's Xport-PO4 and PhosphatR.

Seachem's PhosGuard and Renew.

RowA's RowAphos.

Tropic Marin's Elimi - Phos Longlife

Zeolite - Zeolite will work too, but it's indiscriminate in what it absorbs.

Cautions:

Sera PhosVec is not suitable for inverts. It uses some chemical that binds to PO4 in the water column neutralising it.

In fact be cautious of all liquid PO4 removers. Test in isolation prior to dosing your whole tank of shrimps, just to be safe.

[ineke]

Get it tested with another kit Ineke' date=' I always use 2 different brand kits as some can have faulty readings

One overlooked thing is, High Phosphates makes Aquatic critters nervous and they act out of character, learn what is normal for you critters and that will tell you when something is wrong, you just got to learn there speak LOL[/quote']

My shrimp are acting normal Bob they are peaceful, grazing happily just not breeding. The test kit came straight from the reps stash- this is the tank that you told me to get my hands out of and stop playing with it some months ago. Dean thinks maybe I have all one sex. I only had the phosphate test done out of interest that it may have been my problem. Me thinks the girl needs a lesson in sexing her shrimp

[BlueBolts]

Thanks jayc, great contribution to this thread. Most "shrimp" ONLY tanks, won't have issues with phosphates, with the exception of the issues mentioned above (i.e. over feeding etc...)

Bob's absolutely right too, most experience hobbyist will be able to tell if their WP is off/out of range, just by looking at the shrimp/fish, and their behaviour....so learn to observe them :)

[BlueBolts]

Me thinks the girl needs a lesson in sexing her shrimp

Post some pics of the "females"...

[jayc]

My shrimp are acting normal Bob they are peaceful' date=' grazing happily just not breeding. The test kit came straight from the reps stash- this is the tank that you told me to get my hands out of and stop playing with it some months ago. Dean thinks maybe I have all one sex. I only had the phosphate test done out of interest that it may have been my problem. Me thinks the girl needs a lesson in sexing her shrimp [/quote']

You need Mosura Eros. I use it, and it seems to work, at least I can testify to about 10-12 new CRS shrimplets!! :victorious:

[ineke]

You need Mosura Eros. I use it' date=' and it seems to work, at least I can testify to about 10-12 new CRS shrimplets!! :victorious:[/quote']

Thanks Jayc There are a few things being tried at the moment with advice from another member, if they don't work I will buy some- don't want to try too many things and then either not know which one helped or even harm the shrimp by mixing too many potions - one little step at a time slow and steady. Funny that all the other tanks are breeding madly with the same water and treatments -except of course the Yellows but we won't go there!!!!!

[BlueBolts]

The "danger" with Eros (or other Breeding Liquids) is that it can over stimulate and/or cause pre-mature molting etc, causing immediate/future issues. I had extensive experiments with these 2+ years ago, and haven't used them since....really not necessary, and/or worth the risk...better to learn and understand about conditioning shrimps, WP...etc.

[jayc]

I never dose the recommended amount. Half is enough.

[Squiggle]

-except of course the Yellows but we won't go there!!!!!

I just think you were never meant to breed yellows Ineke, just not meant to be. :dejection:

[ineke]

I know Squigs but all good I'm running out of tanks . Just set up another one for my blue Velvets that are coming along nicely. Then I have to get another one for the Blues from Chocolates so the Yellows are no longer a problem.:encouragement:

[Squiggle]

Hahaha, you watch, now you have accepted it & moved your attention to something else they will breed like rabbits, damn Murphy!!

[jayc]

Yeah, do the opposite of what you are doing!

Ignore the tanks for a little while. Turn off the lights, so they have some peace to ... snuggle :couple_inlove:.

[ineke]

Hahaha' date=' you watch, now you have accepted it & moved your attention to something else they will breed like rabbits, damn Murphy!! [/quote']

BUT then I will NEED MORE TANKS and I think I have reached my limit of affordability -7 shrimp and 1 fish tank. But you are right now I have decided to not try anymore they will be berried in no time:D

[northboy]

So Ineke, will more tanks = trouble with the BETTER half???????????????

Bob

I live dangerous

[ineke]

I'm too scared to ask! 8 tanks is pretty heavy on the electricity and even though we have a big solar unit it's supposed to pay for itself not to run MORE TANKS:D

[northboy]

And I thought you were the Boss

Bob