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CurleyJones321

New Shrimp Keeper

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sdlTBfanUK

I expect it will arrive by friday. If you ordered it direct from the importer I always get mine in 2-3 days, so far anyway. A 50W heater sounds too powerful to most people for such a small tank, but they are what I use (also used in the 15L) on all mine, I don't think those lucky enough to live in warmer climates realise how cold it can get here (especially over night), and if you live in an old house like I do they don't hold the heat very well being brick without cavity walls etc. I once tried a 25W in a 20L and it couldn't cope............. was on constantly and soon gave up the ghost for good.

I would leave some prepared zerowater in an old 1L bottle then for your mum to use to top up the tank if needed. If the water level drops to the point where it switches off automatically and it isn't then topped up the water will cool quite quickly in a small tank, but as you say, it is safe in that the heater shouldn't break. Evaporation will also depend on how good the cover is as well.

Simon

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CurleyJones321

Ok so the Zero Water Jug arrived today and the minerals yesterday, i ran about 2.5 liters through so i can temperature adjust it between now and Saturday and have a little extra to do some tests on.

the filtered water reads as follows:-

PH - 6.5
dKH - 0
dGH - 0
TDS - 6PPM
NH4 - Unreadable
N02 - Unreadable
N03 - Unreadable
P04 - 0.5PPM

it is worth mentioning the TDS pen that came with the Jug registered 0PPM TDS but the one i had prior i think is a bit more accurate so i gave you that reading. just because there is something registering im going to dose with tap safe before i remineralise.

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sdlTBfanUK

Good to hear its arrived already so you are set to go.....

I expect the TDS pen that came with it is the accurate one, it is after all ZEROwater. JayC has pointed out to me in the past that you don't need to use a water conditioner with RO water (which this is), though I used to use the conditioner BEFORE filtering the water as that meant the filter would also remove the conditioner. In short, the conditioner itself will raise the TDS and you don't need to use a conditioner - maybe you got the 6 reading after using the conditioner??? I also have 2 TDS meters but both of mine match and read 000. 

The filter works exceptionally well but when it is exhausted it happens very suddenly, ie it goes a long time on 000, maybe a few more on 001, a few more one 002 and then I change it on 003 as it will start going up with each litre you filter - hope that makes sense. The good thing is TDS is so easy to test just using the meter.

IF you are dripping the NEW water slowly into the tank you also don't need to worry about the temperature difference as it goes in the tank so slowly and the heater will do the rest?

Looks like you are all set but just ask if there are any questions etc.

Simon

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CurleyJones321

the 50W heater was the smallest available i could find and its rated at 10 - 30 liters.
the house i moved from was built in the 1930's and needed love to say the least and the  tank heater managed to maintain 20C with minimum heating from the house. The house we've moved to was built in the 70's and the guy before us extended it and did all the cavity insulation so it keeps its heat really well. what its going to be like in the summer we'll wait and see.

with regards to the TDS i think there just might have been some stuff attached to the pen because when i tested the jug before i put in the tap safe it registered 0 on both pens, i put in the tap safe just to see what would happen and yeah its now registering 5ppm.

i dont drip acclimate i pour in over a baffle thats why i temperature adjust, and i heard somewhere thats fine if your doing up to 25% water changes?

im going to do a 2 Liter water change later today with remineralised water to roughly 200ppm and ill give you the results of both the remineralised water and the updated tank conditions. but i will skip adding the bio boost this week. That should give me 3 water changes between now and when i go away.

Good news is i haven't lost any more shrimp since the last 1 that i know off and i have seen evidence of successful molting. i can usually see between 5 & 9 shrimp at any 1 time and my experience so far is you can see between one third and two thirds of your colony at any 1 time in a heavily planted tank.

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sdlTBfanUK

I generally assume there are 50% more than I see, unless I used something like a shrimp lolly or spinach which brings them all out, otherwise if I can see about 60-70 I assume there are about 100.

As shrimp are quite sensitive creatures to water changes and you are adjusting the water parameters it would be better to set something up to add the new water slower than what you have planned. Do you have some small tubing that you can get the water running from a container into the tank, I believe if you form a knot in ti like a crazy straw that helps slow it down as well. What you were proposing may be fine for fish but shrimps are much more 'delicate'. I am sure you can rig something up without having to buy something else. Make a pin hole in an ice cream container or something like that.

Simon  

 

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CurleyJones321

the tank is a book shelf tank and i literally have it on a book shelf, i may be able to use a plastic milk bottle but i have no tubing to direct the flow of water, and i don't think I'm going to be able to justify spending any more money on the shrimp trust me.

just a little information about myself. I am a professional Structural Engineer/Estimator for a large builders merchant but my actual qualifications are in Mechanical Engineering (Structural Engineering's WAY easier!). I may live with my mother but that is due to health concerns both her and i have that means neither of us want to be on our own in case of an emergency and my father passed away in August. So i will be providing all the data i can because of my analytical mind, and because i work as an Engineer that also provides prices for materials i will also be looking for the most cost effective solutions as compared to the amount of effort that would be required to go into it.

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ShrimpNewb

I literally just use a bucket, some airline tubing, and an airline valve (about $5 US worth of materials) to drip water changes.  I stack a barstool on top of a piano bench, put the bucket on top of that so I can get it above the tank, and use a coffee cup to hold the airline on the bottom of the bucket so I know the water will drain to the bottom of the bucket.  My wife rolls her eyes, but it works and is cheap.  No need for anything fancy.

Also, as for the Zerowater setup.  I have not gone that route, but I suggest you just make the water you need for the water changes and leave the system dry.  Many people in online reviews of Zerowater have complained about the system becoming fouled.  I suspect that's because, as JayC pointed out in my water remineralizing thread, that leaving water lying around with nothing (because it's got zero TDS) to prevent bacteria from growing in it is a bad idea.  Just my two cents.  I hope you are successful.

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sdlTBfanUK

It sounds like you should be able to think of someway of setting up a slower method of adding the new water. The dripper I use was only about £10 and that sounds like it would work perfectly as it can sit on te shelf above and the tube go down to the tank below, but I understand the wish to stop keep paying out for more and more stuff. I am setting up a tank for a Betta fish at the moment and have spent about £250 so far and don't eve have the fish yet, also how mad must I be to spend that on 1 fish, which type I have tried and failed miserably to keep before. Here is a link to the dripper just in case you are interested (they also do a 1 gallon (4L as is US gallon) one which I use which is only slightly more expensive), it comes with the tubing etc needed and is worth its weight in gold as far as making life SOOO much easier - fill it and just leave it to do its thing.

http://www.onlinereptileshop.co.uk/reptile-products/Drippers-and-Sprayers/Zoo-Med-Little-Dripper-Ld-1-3810.html#sthash.6JaPdhN2.dpbs 

Like you, I also have health problems, which is why I am on here a lot, as I am housebound with MS so get bored a lot! The new tank is really something to keep me busy, a project, now I have mastered the taiwan bee shrimps. I am expecting a delivery from ProShrimp today for stuff for the Betta tank, I ordered it yesterday and they always arrive the next day, so far anyway?

Keep smiling!

Simon

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sdlTBfanUK
3 minutes ago, ShrimpNewb said:

I literally just use a bucket, some airline tubing, and an airline valve (about $5 US worth of materials) to drip water changes.  I stack a barstool on top of a piano bench, put the bucket on top of that so I can get it above the tank, and use a coffee cup to hold the airline on the bottom of the bucket so I know the water will drain to the bottom of the bucket.  My wife rolls her eyes, but it works and is cheap.  No need for anything fancy.

Also, as for the Zerowater setup.  I have not gone that route, but I suggest you just make the water you need for the water changes and leave the system dry.  Many people in online reviews of Zerowater have complained about the system becoming fouled.  I suspect that's because, as JayC pointed out in my water remineralizing thread, that leaving water lying around with nothing (because it's got zero TDS) to prevent bacteria from growing in it is a bad idea.  Just my two cents.  I hope you are successful.

Love to hear about the lengths people will go to in setting these things up, but I am definitely one who would rather buy something ready made for the task to make life easy.

Don't worry too much about the zerowater smell problem, I have NEVER had this problem in the slightest and would bet my money on people not following the instructions and changing the filter at 006. 006 is still very low TDS, especially if you are using it for other purposes than RO water for aquarium but they tell you to change the filter at that for a reason, but knowing people as I do I know lots of people will be going over 006 to save a few pennies and then complaining about the smell, durrrrr!

Simon

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CurleyJones321

ok so i remineralised the water, which was a little challenge as it was my first time, i ended up having to add another liter of ro water to the jug but i got the TDS to 199. i then left it sitting to temperature adjust NOTE do not get water into the remineraliser powder EVER it has an violent exothermic reaction... i got 2 drops in when i tried to use the thermometer to dab a little inside, glad i didnt get the actual thermometer in there. i tested the water:-

PH - 7.5
dKH - 4
dGH - 6
TDS - 199
NH4 - Unreadable
N02 - Unreadable
N03 - unreadable
P04 - Unreadable

i then added about 2.5 liters to the tank waited 2 hours and tested the water:-

PH - 7.5
dKH - 4
dGH - 10
Temp - 25C
TDS - 399
NH4 - Unreadable
N02 - Unreadable
N03 - Unreadable
P04 - 0.5ppm

i culled duck weed about a week an a half ago an already need to do more but every time i do i get nitrite spikes and when ever the tank get above 0.2ppm i do daily water changes. can anyone recommend how much duck weed to cull at one time or should i just make sure i get the TDS of the remineralised water to the same as the tank each day if i have to?

Edited by CurleyJones321

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jayc
29 minutes ago, CurleyJones321 said:

nitrite spikes

Nitrite or Nitrate?

 

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CurleyJones321
12 minutes ago, jayc said:

Nitrite or Nitrate?

 

N02 - Nitrite right?

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jayc
9 hours ago, CurleyJones321 said:

N02 - Nitrite

yes, that's right. NO2 is Nitrite.

If it was Nitrate, then ok. But you should never have detectable nitrites after cycling a tank.

What are you using for a filter and filter media?

Looks like you might need more biological media (eg. glass / ceramic noodles) for nitrifying bacteria to colonise. Something for you to investigate. Duck weed or no duck weed, you should not detect nitrite on a test kit.

 

Edited by jayc

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sdlTBfanUK

Looks like you are on the right route and eventually the tank will get to very similar to the remineralised RO water parameters and they look fine to me. It will be less of a difference each time you do a water change, and very slowly adjust when it is nearly there.

I will leave you in JayC good hands regarding the nitrite issue. I have never had any nitrite readings, even when cycling a tank so can't help you there!

I made the mistake of putting duckweed in a tank some years ago, as we have loads in the lake here so I thought why not give it a try. It is a nightmare to get rid of and grows/spreads so quickly, I would work towards getting rid of it entirely, gradually though, and just stick with the amazonian frogbit as that is much easier to deal with. IF you want to keep the duckweed then I suspect you need to keep on top of it daily in the size of tank you have?

IF your tank is one of those with a built in section at the back which houses the sponge and heater etc it will be more important to leave some zerowater for topping up when you are away as that is what my 15L was and because of the (bad) design it never really looked like the level was dropping (the slots to the back section were at the top) due to evaporation until you looked in the back section which is where the level dropped DRAMATICALLY and as that is where the heater and pump etc is you don't want that! As yours is on a book shelf you may even not see this happening?

Simon

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CurleyJones321

ok so another week another water change! i haven't seen any further dead shrimp but have seen evidence of successful molts, and no berried shrimp. I have counted between 5 and 7 when ever i check the tank. also i managed to convince my girlfriend i could spend £3 on a 3 meter length of plastic tubing to make a drip acclimator but that wont arrive until the day i go away. My current water perimeters are as follows:-

PH - 7.5
dKH - 4
dGH - 10
Temp - 22C
TDS - 369
NH4 - Unreadable
N02 - Unreadable
N03- Unreadable

my tank is a Love Fish 18 liter tank with integral 1Kw per Gallon lighting and filter. the filter is made up of a pump in its own section with the heater that pumps water through the filter compartment which is made up of around 50 plastic balls and 2 cotton mesh pads. unfortunately i cant seem to upload the photo's I took with my phone from my computer.

Question if i get another Nitrite Spike should I use remineralised water at say 350TDS to replace until Monday when i add 200TDS?

 

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jayc
3 hours ago, CurleyJones321 said:

Question if i get another Nitrite Spike should I use remineralised water at say 350TDS to replace until Monday when i add 200TDS?

Not quite sure what the question is. Can you rephrase?

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sdlTBfanUK

As with JayC not totally sure what the question is but these are the water basics.

If you change water, ie remove 2L and add 2L then you remineralise the new water. When topping up you use pure RO water. You are changing water with 200TDS to bring the TDS down to a better figure but once you get to the desired figure of say 250, then you remineralise to TDS250 so you are removing 250 and refilling with 250.

If you may be talking a one off due to something unexpected and not in the usual schedule (which I think you are) which will mean taking out a lot of water and replacing a lot of water, say 50% (thats a guess on my part) or something then I would remineralise to say about 330ish (based on your 370 tank figure) which will reduce the overall TDS a bit but not too much in one go. Hope this answers your question, if not ask again?

Really pleased to hear how it is all going well and to plan. I agree it would be better to wait until you get back before trying to set up something for dripping as it is only a week away before you go away!

Simon

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CurleyJones321

ok to explain my question:- i have just culled duck weed and when ever i do i get Nitrite (N02) spikes. i always do 10% daily water changes when ever i read 0.2PPM N02 and above until i get almost unreadable readings. should this happen this time should i adjust the new water to 350TDS which is close to my tank readings or should i adjust with 200TDS to continue the adjustment of my water? or what?

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jayc
13 minutes ago, CurleyJones321 said:

i get Nitrite (N02) spikes. i always do 10% daily water changes when ever i read 0.2PPM N02 and above until i get almost unreadable readings. should this happen this time should i adjust the new water to 350TDS which is close to my tank readings or should i adjust with 200TDS to continue the adjustment of my water? or what?

You have two (unrelated) questions here, from what I see.

Firstly, the Ntirite spiking from culling duck weed has no relation to your TDS reading.

Are you using RO (or that zerowater water jug) right? -> there should be no nitrites in that. So it mean your beneficial bacteria in the tank cannot cope, which mean not enough of those little buggers.

You shouldn't be getting Nitrite spikes in a mature (cycled) tank. How much biological filter media do you have? How old is the tank?

Don't clean out your filters or gravel vac too often. Once a year is more than enough. The idea here is to get your tank mature enough that beneficial bacteria load is high enough to deal with an imbalance like culling some duck weed. I'd suggest bacteria in a bottle, but I cannot guarantee any of them will give you the right type of bacteria to tackle nitrites. Best to let nature take it's course here. Let them grow by providing the best conditions. Lots of oxygen, correct temps and food (ammonia). Ammonia is taken care of by the shrimp's waste and food. So you only need to ensure there is enough oxygenated water and don't let temps fall too low. Keep temps between 22-23 degC, that's for the shrimps. Make sure the water surface tension is being broken by air stone bubbles or by your filter outlet.

 

Secondly, with TDS ... since you have cherry shrimp, I would personally aim for 250TDS water change each week, and slow drip the new 250TDS water back in. At 10% water change, this can take a while to get 350TDS down to somewhere near 250TDS. Once you reach close to 250TDS, switch to 200TDS water changes. And maintain between 200 - 250TDS from there on.

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CurleyJones321

ok i understand the duckweed has no relation to my TDS, BUT it does seem to have an affect on my nitrite levels. so my question was if i have to do daily water changes to cure this until the duck weed takes back over what TDS should that water be that i am adding in 200, 250 or current tank level 350?

i am using the jug with no problems whatsoever and as i have posted before the readings of the water are unreadable N02, N03 & NH4. i thought having 2 inches of substrate would be enough for the beneficial bacteria along with my filter. (if i were allowed to share photo's i could show you). I have never cleaned my substrate and i add bioboost to the stated dosage with every weekly water change which should contain the bacteria. i'll let you know Friday what my readings are and u can see for yourself that culling duckweed in my tank raises N02 for some reason which i aim to fix apon my return from holiday if you can come up with something.

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sdlTBfanUK

I have gone through this thread from the start.

You may not be able to upload photos as I think they have to be below 1Mb? This may be the problem???

I can't be of any help with the nitrite as I have never had any, even in cycling, sorry, but JayC has addressed that I think above.

To keep everything simple I would do your weekly water changes with the planned reduced TDS to get the parameters to where you want them, and you are well on your way there already. Anything that means any additional water removal/change I would try and get the TDS to close to that of the tank water removed at that point, you only need to worry about the TDS figures as the others (Gh/Kh) will follow suit so no need to waste time/money on those EVERY time, as you are using commercially produced remineralisers, and TDS is so easy to keep checking anyway? Sticking to something like this routine will mean slow/quick enough changes in parameters for the shrimp to cope whilst making life much easier for you to keep track of I would think?

I'm not too sure about gravel vac-ing the soil as I was told by my supplier when I was going to buy one, you can't really do that (which actually made sense at the time, gravel being heavy etc) with the soil substrate and so didn't recommend it, and so have never done that in any tank, and I think you mention you have a decent depth of soil? Admittedly most people probably use gravel with cherry shrimp as it is cheaper and easier and cherry don't usually need the buffering of the soil, that is more for bee shrimps.

Simon

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ShrimpNewb

There are two different kinds of bacteria in the nitrogen cycle.  The first is the one that turns ammonia into nitrites.  The second turns nitrites, produced by the first, into nitrates.  The only way to remove nitrates is to do water changes - even with a ton of plants, I have never seen nitrates drop to zero in an aquarium stocked with fauna.

It sounds like you do not have enough nitrite > nitrate bacteria, and agree with JayC that you may be over-cleaning and/or not have enough filter media for your bio-load.  Upgrading your filter to one containing more filter media should help.  If you do, realize that you will also need to leave the old filtration running alongside the newer, larger filter, for several weeks as the bacteria colonize the new filter.

You can never have too much filter media, though you can certainly have too much flow, but I don't think you have either.  Your nitrites should always read ZERO.  If the bacteria that converts nitrites into nitrates are mostly colonizing your duckweed, I very much think your water circulation is insufficient.  It is likely that upping the liters or gallons per hour on your filtration and the size will fix the problem.

I hope this is helpful.  Good luck.

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jayc
16 hours ago, CurleyJones321 said:

what TDS should that water be that i am adding in 200, 250 or current tank level 350?

You would want too reduce your current levels to 200 -250. So do as i mentioned before. 

 

16 hours ago, CurleyJones321 said:

2 inches of substrate would be enough for the beneficial bacteria

Yes that is plenty of surface area,  but how old is your tank? The substrate doesn't come with beneficial bacteria on it. 

 

16 hours ago, CurleyJones321 said:

raises N02 for some reason

I'd say your tank is not cycled properly. Not sure what bioboost is but i can bet you it has no nitrifying bacteria. 

Edited by jayc
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CurleyJones321

Bioboost is a marketed bacteria formula that is supposed to contain all the bacteria necessary to maintain a fish tank including the nitrite cycle bacteria, or at least that's what i was sold it as. however i have heard that bacteria in a bottle (which essentially is what this is) can be just plain thick sticky water depending on how it was stored both in your home and more worryingly in transport from the manufacturer to your local fish store because if exposed to temperatures either too hot or too cold the bacteria will all die. 

ok so its been a couple of days and ive checked my water, the readings are as follows:-

PH - 7.5
dKH - 4
dGH - 9
Temp - 23C
TDS - 387ppm
NH4 - Unreadable
N02 - 0.025ppm
N03 - Unreadable
P04 - 0.5ppm

so there you go after culling I'm getting a nitrite spike but looking at my previous readings the spike seems to be reducing over time but i was a little more cautious with the cull this time. So my conclusion is Duck weed is Excellent for getting rid of N02 and i am experiencing New Tank Syndrome, because my tank has only been set up since November 2018. i am intending on upping the flow of the pump when i do my next water change and I'll update you then.

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sdlTBfanUK

It looks like you are well on your way and if you have stopped the shrimp deaths then it must be going well!

What will you be doing about the duckweed whilst you are away, or are you just going to leave that to cover the top until you get back and then sort it out, as it is only a few days until you go away?

Great to hear it is going so well.

Simon

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