Shrimp deaths

[Jiffy]

Help!. Despite all my efforts, my cherry shrimp are dying off, at least two a day. My water tests are all fine. I use 3 stage hma unit with extra charcoal filter, and also salty shrimp easy filter powder, recommended by the breeder I bought shrimp from. Water temp is roughly 25.5. Water is topped up weekly, and a small gentle clean, with 10%water change is also done weekly. Feeding occurs every two days, with Sat/Sun missed out, leaving them to find their own food in tank. I have two Otocinclus in tank and 8 micro fish, which are smaller than my shrimp. There is no aggression, and any uneaten food is taken out, but usually none as I have learned to feed sparingly.  It is soul destroying to see the constant deaths.  Most look very healthy and there is a lot of skins. I notice some seem to go very pale pink, then they die. Can anyone help me with this please. Thanks

[NoGi]

If they are losing colour before dying then something's stressing them out. Can you detail the results of your water tests?

[Jiffy]

The usual api test kit results, all readings are 0, ph is 6.5/ 7.

Used salty shrimp, no deaths for a week almost, then it started again. Still using salty shrimp. They are all out and about, doing what shrimp do. 

[Jiffy]

Just found out I should have been ageing water with filter powder in it. I've been ageing water,t hen adding filter powder to tank. I'll change to other routine and hope it works 

[NoGi]

Hmmm not sure if that's it. This is an established tank right? Can you post photos or links to what filter powder you are talking about?

Aside from using a dechlorinator solution that also removes ammonia I've never had to use filter powder with my water changes.

Are you using anything else in your tank for the fish or plants? If you are, make sure there is no copper in the ingredients.

[jayc]

22 minutes ago, NoGi said:

 links to what filter powder you are talking about?

This is what Jiffy is talking about

http://www.saltyshrimp.de/english/easy_filter_powder.html

 

How old is the tank? ie, how long has it been setup since it was cycled.

11 hours ago, Jiffy said:

Water is topped up weekly, and a small gentle clean, with 10%water change is also done weekly.

Do you use tap water or RO / rainwater? And what is your water change routine (what minerals do you use to remineralise the water).

11 hours ago, Jiffy said:

I use 3 stage hma unit

I assume that is your water filter. That is usually just a heavy metal filter good for fish ponds and drinking.

It is not necessarily a good filter for shrimps, as it has filters (caarbon and KDF filters) that increase pH. It raises pH by artificial means and it might not be good for fish/shrimp. 

You need a Reverse Osmosis filter, which is very different to a 3 stage HMA filter.

 

 

11 hours ago, Jiffy said:

extra charcoal filter

Why do you need to use charcoal filter specifically?

Charcoal is great at removing unwanted chemicals or minerals in the water, like say after medication has been added to the tank for treatment of diseases. Using charcoal long term strips the water of minerals, leading to moulting issues in shrimps. Charcoal is indiscriminate as to what it removes from the water - good minerals as well as bad chemicals are removed. If you have nothing toxic to remove the charcoal has been working to remove all the minerals the shrimp actually need.

Remove the charcoal as a first step.

I would recommend doing a 90% water change, even if it's tapwater with dechlorinator. At least it would replenish some minerals that all the carbon and HMA filter has stripped out.

10 hours ago, Jiffy said:

all readings are 0

What readings might that be?

 GH & KH ?

TDS?

Zero is not good for GH/KH and TDS.

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by jayc

[Jiffy]

had to buy new charcoal filter to remove chloramines added by local water board. ammonia, nitrate. nitrite, all read 0. ph can be close to 7, but it's always been that way. despite wood, plants etc it stays. reads same right from tap.  drop calcium blocks in water fortnightly. the easy filter powder makes sure any metals are neutralised so I'm told. it was recommended by breeder I bought shrimp from. no forts are used and made sure foods have no copper etc.

I will try tapwater, with dechlorinater. and sorry, the readings you mentioned ? I don't have a clue lol. tank is four months old, cycled and keeps very stable

salty hrimp easy filter powder add minerals etc to water, as well as removing metals etc

[Jiffy]

Update - noticed many shrimp have black patches just behind their shoulders?. It's like internal organs have hone black. They die where they stand, no falling over, just die. I'm  thinking a disease maybe? Have dosed before with esha, and then another dose with Melafix and Pimafix.  Nothing seems to work. 

[NoGi]

Can you take a picture?

[KeenShrimp]

@Jiffy, I am not a doctor, but I have had many sick shrimp with different bacterial infections- can you catch and isolate the visibly sick ones ASAP? Any clean container will do with a scoop of substrate and an airline. We need a photo in order to see if we can see what it is. Pimafix and Melafix only work for slightly sick shrimp that can still use their immune systems ( seriously, if you Google Scholar search API Pimafix, their trial shows that there was no proven anti fungal benefits. They do have some data for Melafix). 

You will not be able to cure the sick ones with larger black patches- euthanasia is kindest. I have done multiple tests on sick shrimp with antibiotics and the treatment is too much of a shock. I had a shaky start in shrimping and bought sick shrimp from all over the country before I met good people on SKF.

Oxytetracycline available at all fish shops are effective for most pathogenic bacteria- this will treat the mild to medium sick shrimp and a symptomatic ones. I would recommend not nuking your habitat  tank with the antibiotic, but rather dose it with Dr Tim's probiotic and remove the charcoal ASAP.

If you dose antibiotics, follow @jayc's dosage to the letter that he posted in his thread- you can only give the Tetracyclines for a max of 7days otherwise the hepatopancreas fail.

This is a bad situation, I am so sorry.

 

[Jiffy]

Yeah, I was given these shrimp from friend. I do not have the where for all at the minute to create another tank, as am currently cycling two. Do you think any might survive? If I do lose /euthanized the lot. How long before I can try again with shrimp in same tank? I have otocinclus and micro fish in rank, all very healthy,  so shutting tank down and starting again is not easy option either. Otoscope can be moved,  but micro fish would be swallowed  up quickly in other tanks.  Never again will I accept fish etc from anyone else. They were fine for almost two weeks, so I added them into main shrimp tank. I am gutted

No charcoal in shrimp tank. I use hma water re mineralised with filter powder. Air driven sponge filters x 2. If getting more shrimp in tanks meant gutting it and restarting again, I think I'd  just write the idea of shrimp off to be honest

This is as close as I can get, but black area is larger, and on back

[Jiffy]

They all look so healthy except for this black marks

[KeenShrimp]

@Jiffy, you can put the shrimp in the bucket you do water changes with with an airline and a scoop of gravel...please search on the forum under disease section for Jayc's daily dosages. Keep a good airline supply running and you will have to remove the dead ASAP before they decompose.

Are you able to acces ShrimpyDaddy products? You might really need the Revita Colore to get micronutrients back into your tank that might have been absent from the water column from adsorption onto the charcoal...

[Jiffy]

will use the bucket as you suggest. thanks. have already taken out the worst. fingers x'd 

[Jiffy]

am going to move the lot over to a spare tank. will sterilise shrimp tank, and recycle from scratch wih all new filters, substrate, wood & plants.  then. will start with new colony of shrimp. that way, I'll know it's all fresh & clean. diseased shrimp will stay in hospital tank, until either dead or once I know for certain they're ok.