Notopala sp?

[Baccus]

Occasionally I find these shells on the bank of the fresh water side of the barrage on the Fitzroy river. I am wondering if they are a type of local notopala and if so the best way of catching/ finding/ trapping some live ones. These photos are of the shells I managed to dredge out of the muddy silty sand in the shallows mostly around where some water weeds where growing. These ones are only fairly small but I have found bigger shells in the past, just never any live ones. I am loathe to actually enter the water and spend even too long at any particular spot since the river is home to crocs and they are seen fairly regularly near the boat ramp which is in the park near the barage. The water is also usually murky, another reason I am leary of being near the waters edge or entering the water for any length of time, since you cant see where the depths drop away and any potential threats.

Would I be right in thinking that the snails may be buried out deeper and only coming out at night? Also are they likely to be in/ around the weed rocks or submerged timber?

[NoGi]

@Dave, @northboy, @fishmosy any of you guys come across this variety?

[fishmosy]

I'm not familiar with where these guys are found, but if there are shells there, they have to be nearby. That said, I don't think the 'rams-horn' shaped snails would be inclined to bury themselves. Burying a broad shell like that would be difficult compared to a 'long-spiral' shell. I would suggest looking at night on hard stractures like rocks and timber but could be completely wrong. Dave or Bob would know where to look. 

[northboy]

Howdy and keep an eye out for them dam lizards flaming pests they are, hard structure and weedy areas are the places to look and they are able to burry in the mud, only because it will be soft and that is another reason not to go in the water, getting stuck in the mud = you being dinner.

 

Have a look around the edge on the Yeppen lagoons. yea I know I spelt it wrong, that would be a spot and any small side creeks of the Fitzroy should have them and keep you out of the attack zone.

 

I hat Crocs sneaky turds. For the greenys reading this, take a cup of concrete and I still hate them

 

Bob

[Baccus]

Yeppen lagoon (or where meaning closer to the coast Yeppoon?) could be a problem since its mostly fenced off but there is one area I might be able to get to easily. I was thinking maybe scrubby creek. Or go straight to the apparent source and try the Dawson river since it floods into the Fitzroy and the Dawson apparently is home to Notopala sublineata alisoni and its been a long time since crocs have been sited in the Dawson so maybe a little less risky.

A few months ago they had a croc wondering across the highway between Yeppen lagoon going to the other lagoons in some cow cockies paddocks, it probably was the same croc that lives in Murray Laggon at the gardens.

With hard structure are the snails likely to be on it or wedged under crevices during the day? Weed wise are they going to be around Val type weeds or more lilly or elodea types? Just trying to narrow the search area down more. Since the other half gets incredibly bored watching me net dip fruitlessly over and over again. But if I can give him a couple of jobs it keeps him happier while I am blissfully searching for live treasures.

[northboy]

Yeppen lagoons near you if you can, but the Dawson sounds like a plan, only you are going to freeze to death there at the moment LOL, At night the sails will be moving around in sight, I use a Garbage picker to get them in deeper water, you will be able to get one of those things from work to help, don't really know what they are called, but the guys on the ride on mowers use them to pick up garbage, so they don't have to get on and off the mowers.

 

Don't know Scrubby creek but give it a go, so long as its safer, Any weedy cover is OK and at night in those spots they will be out on the mud.

 

They look different to the ones I get at Mt Carbine, a longer shell? who knows what you will find when you look in the right spots at the right time and if you think it is grab it and have a look, because some time there camo is really good..

 

Stay away from them dam snappy's  although they are slow at this time of year = cold and its been cold up here so I am SOOKEN inside at them moment staying warm

 

Bob

[Baccus]

Hmm looks like I have two night time projects to be going on with, one the search for notopala the other fire flies, just a shame that the few places I know fireflies are, aren't the same places that the snails will be.

I might see if I can convince the other half to go back to the ski gardens this afternoon and try more along the concrete wall for snails its overed in algea and I was catching shrimp off it yesterday. Down side is its also deep along the wall because boats etc tie up against it and deep and murky spells trouble. We could also go to Boulder Rock park same general area as the ski gardens but less boat and human activity near the banks, it might also have more submerged timber that could be housing snails. If I can track some of these snails down I am guessing because of their breeding habits I will need a min of 10 to ensure I get males and females. Then I was thinking of putting them in my pond which is my backyards equivelent of where the wild things are. The pond only has the endlers that have survived winter so far and a lovely collection of non-cane toad tadpoles, plenty of plant life etc to amuse the snails.

[Baccus]

WooooHooooo I am so happy with ME. We went down to Boulder Rock and found a log (with some rather interesting moss?) growing on it submerged) with a lot of sand deeper down clay and a small bed of val nearby. After MANY scoops through the sand around the edges of the log (and breaking the handle of my net) I found plenty of dead snail shells even another nice large one, but really excited!!!! I found 3 small live ones. Happy Dance Happy Dance.

I know these little guys are only wee tackers but I have high hopes that they will survive and thrive maybe even breed in my native tank with the shrimp and spotted blue eyes. Who knows they may even give the dreaded ramshorns in the tank a run for their money.

I also found some spikey shelled snails that are similar in MTS but more interesting and some large smooth conical shells of another snail that I would have liked to find live. I would love to go back at night to the spot but unlike, today where I was wading in the water just above my ankles I wouldnt be so brave in the dark. Plus there where boats and jet ski's roaring past the enitre time I was in the water scooping for the snails.

I also got an interesting shrimp, which I am guessing is a glass.

The live ones

Awakening

Coming out

Some of the other finds

Sadly all dead

 

 

[Baccus]

Some more shots

This one has the darkest shell and body

The other two have paler bodies and shells

[NoGi]

Looks like my Waterhouse.

[kizshrimp]

Nice finds Baccus, looks like you had a good day out! Bob the shrimp looks very similar to that Mobo creek one. 

[Baccus]

I would say they are more like Essington in that the shells are not really thin, but my best guess is that they are Notopala sublineata alisoni since that species is recorded as being in the Dawson River and the Dawson floods into the Fitzroy.

[northboy]

Good find Girl well done and night would be better BUT you need hubby to keep look out in the distance and you will be OK, with that much boat traffic they wont like that area.

Its a Notopala not like the ones from the NT and most likely what you said, to only way is to send some to the museum if you want to know, but just breed them they are good and should be a live barer, the shrimp is like the one I got on the Tablelands but I would make a call of Indistincta on that one, find a couple more and breed them. Could be a Indistincta from the Tablelands Kiz, but so far out of its range?????

 

Your hooked now collecting is fun, your only challenge is getting hubby motivated LOL

[Baccus]

I have always been interested in collecting things but usually its just common stuff or too far away to get in an easy trip.

I would like to have a crack at seeing whats out and about in the river at night, but the other half wont set a toe in the water in broad daylight so he is even less likely to go within cooee of the water in the dark. I might have to do some clever buying, eg  get him a decent hand held spot light, then I can suggest places for him to use it, his birthday is coming up so its an idea.

With a bit of luck friday afternoon I might be able to weedle another outing to the river, at least we wont have pesky work to worry about the next day. I really want to get more than 3 of the snails just so I have the best chances of having male and female.

[NoGi]

First in line for offsprings 

[Baccus]

I will have to keep you in mind NoGi, if they get around to breeding.

I was pleasantly suprised just now, I thought after letting the snails loose in native tank with its huge log that I would never see the snails again. But this nice little fella was out and about just long enough for a couple of pictures before disapearing back into the log. This one is the darkest one of the three. No idea if that means something about sexes or species or just natural variation.

[northboy]

Natural variation and some can be gold.

 

Careful you might start a interest in Snails and people might think about the differently, OH NO they might think snails are good

 

Bob

[Baccus]

Snail do have there uses, I just have to keep waging war on Ramshorns and MTS. Other snails that dont breed into plague proportions I have no issue with. Although I have never been over the moon about mystery or apple snails.

Could this be the "pouch" I hear these snails raise their young in? Might have to look carefully but there seems to be pouch like structure on the side of the snail.

Two gems

A little ramshorn annoying the notopala

[fishmosy]

If they have a pouch, it sits up slightly behind the head (within the shell).

[Baccus]

I thought maybe it might be visble if the snail had recently given birth to its baby. But I guess I couldnt be so lucky

 

[Baccus]

Well no more seaching for snails around Boulder Rock or Ski Gardens for a while, there has been a confirmed sighting of a large croc. Stupid things ruining my fun.

 

[fishmosy]

Bloody lizards. 

[Baccus]

So we finally got the hand held spot light (what a little ripper! Bright as has 3 settings and throws 400m) and braved the river at night. At the actual ski gardens on the wall I was expecting the snails might have been I only found rainbow fish, fly specked hardy heads and gudgeons as well as some small shrimp and of course macros. The fish where really easy to catch blinded by the spot light and it seemed unfair to keep netting them.

We moved down to the more risky bush like edge of the river where I had previously found the first 3 live snails. But alas all I managed to find was 3 more dead shells. We had shone the spotlight around across the water before approaching the edge and had seen something swimming at the surface going against even the faintest current in the water which made us less inclined to actually stay in the area too long. Thinking back it could have been a water rat or platypus we saw, but neither of us where willing to take the chance of a snapper.

One bonus we did see on our way to the waters edge was seeing a rather surprised tawny frogmouth so the night in my view wasn't a total waste.

So the hunt continues........

[Baccus]

After dropping off some BN fry to a pet shop I convinced the other half to go to the river and have a bit of a hunt around for some snails, which surprisingly he agreed to.

The water has dropped in the river an amazing amount, and the log where I had previously found the snails is now almost totally out of the water, so this time I went further out onto the sandflats that have patches of val growing on it, but still very shallow and a good metre or two of ankle deep water between me and deeper darker water. And much to my delight I actually found a single live snail after regretfully finding lots more sadly and maddeningly deceased large ones. Sadly I didn't get to stay as long as I would have liked hunting for the snails, stupid house and yard work needing to be done.

This new guy I should have no problems telling apart from the other one, provided he doesn't lose his dark shell and go golden too.

Without further ado introducing the new guy

 

[Baccus]

The plot thickens.....

After only seeing the one yellow/ golden notopala in the tank even after stripping the tank and moving everything into a new tank I could only find the one snail. I had thought that the other two must have either died, hitch hiked in the timber and that why I never saw them even after putting the log back into the new tank, or they had wondered off. personally I was betting on the wondered off option while hoping on the just hiding option.

After getting the new dark shelled guy (name named Bolt, because of the way he "bolts" all over the tank) , I happened to spy in my tank gazing a small little notopala with a yellow gold shell. Since I could see all three snails at once I know that the little guy is definantly not the main gold one I had been seeing. Also the level of shell degradation is different. And this little guy has a rather helpful scratch on the side of his shell which makes it distinguishable for now.

But now I am really confused since the first 3 snails I found alive and put in the tank where all pretty much the same size, where on earth has this little tacker come from? I doubt breeding, even if a pregnant snail had dropped its baby as soon as it was placed in the tank. I don't think in just a couple of short weeks any baby snail could have grown so quickly and its shell I am sure should be in better condition.

This is the little guy in question, sadly I couldn't get a photo with all three snails in the same shot since they where scattered in different places in the tank and I prefer not to be picking them up and moving them all the time.

New guy Bolt

And Goldie who seems to have taken a real liking to this end section of the log, which of course is far from the front of the tank.