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Gravel increasing TDS


revolutionhope

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Hey all,

I bought a small amount of cheap white gravel as I wanted to be able to see my carbon rilis easier. Im rinsing the gravel and stirring and stirring inside a container but the tds keeps rising I can't seem to be able to "remove" all of whatever it is.

Would this just be calcium? And if so is this a problem or can I just manage this and take it into account - I did find bluebolts guide to calculating calcium and magnesium based on gh and calcium testkits (both of which kits I do have).

Any input as to how to proceed woupd be appreciated. I only spent $4.95 on the gravel so its not a big loss.

Im not sure but is it possible the black gravel im using in my neo tanks is leeching out calcium too already? the gravel certainly seems to be buffering ph and keeping it up towards 8 while in my barebottom tanks the opposite is happening , they are drifting towards a lower pH - although the barebottom tanks are heavily stocked and the gravel tanks have barely a handful or at most a few dozen or so shrimp in them.

Love n peace

confounded shrimpkeeper

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More info is needed on the gravel.

Brand, name, even a picture will help. Or web link to the shop you bought it from.

 

White or black gravel, just isn't enough for us to determine if it is gravel or shell grit or something else.

 

If the gravel is increasing TDS, then it's not inert gravel.

 

Unless you have very soft water, and know how much gravel to use to balance out the TDS, you should avoid using it.

You've probably bought shell grit, or crushed limestone or crushed marble substrate for hard water fish like Cichlids.

It's probably the Calcium Carbonates in this gravel that is raising the TDS, KH and pH.

 

Unless you are up for a lot of maintenance, swap it out for inert substrate.

Edited by jayc
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Next time if you want to have a better look for your rili better. I supposed that you need to buy a better lightning unit. It is ways better than added some extra of unknow gravel....

You know shrimps are sensitive

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Often the pure white gravels are limestone or marble chips and so are essentially calcium carbonate. The black gravel commonly sold at aquarium shops in up to 20kg bags (sometimes as "midnight") is also very alkaline although I don't know the composition. In both these cases they will continue to affect the water quality long term and are best removed. 

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The black gravel commonly sold at aquarium shops in up to 20kg bags (sometimes as "midnight") is also very alkaline although I don't know the composition. 

 

I know what it is.

 

Midnight is just a fancy marketing name for black granite (maybe sometimes black marble).

Granite is composed of alkali feldspar, mica, quartz and several minerals.

It's chemical composition is predominantly Silica and alumina. It's varying amounts of Potassium and Sodium is what  gives it it's colour.

Calcium, Iron, Magnesium, manganese oxides make up it's remaining chemical composition.

 

The potassium and sodium in granite is what raises the ph in your aquarium.

 

 

If it was black marble, then it is just composed of recrystallised carbonate mineral - calcite or dolomite. Limestone basically.

And limestone is full of Calcium carbonate.

Edited by jayc
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Hm I have been reassured by my mate at the lfs that it is inert but im going to remove a portion from the carbon rili tank and test it myself to confirm. I really want something white for at least a part of the tank. I do have more intense lighting I could use but im very budget conscious (most of the time!)my eyesight is quite poor I use a magnifying glass to observe my shrimp most of the time and I find it extremely difficult to see the carbon rilis they just blend in so well!!

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if looking for something inert and white, you might be able to track down some crushed quartz.

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Hm I have been reassured by my mate at the lfs 

 

Well, we have still not determined what you have. We were just guessing that it might be crushed coral grit or marble chips.

It's a good idea to test it. Grab a handful and test it in a cup.

Measure TDS of the water in the cup before and after. You'll know for sure.

A mate at your local fish store doesn't necessarily means he knows much about geology.

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The black gravel commonly sold at aquarium shops in up to 20kg bags (sometimes as "midnight") is also very alkaline although I don't know the composition. In both these cases they will continue to affect the water quality long term and are best removed. 

I actually have been buying 20kg bags of 2mm "Midnight" gravel  recently for use in tanks that I use 100% rainwater (pH 5.8-6.0, EC 70 µS/cm).  Some tanks I have are "drip-through" so the added hardness is perfect.   Initially I found the midnight adding to the TDS over a period of a week and the tanks maintained pH ~6.8-7.0 with EC ~200 µS/cm (perfect for me), but now after a few months of rainwater changes the effect is far less and I have to add hardness booster to keep the TDS up (I add a DIY Mg, Ca, K mix).  Plants, in particular Aponogetons and Barclayas have gone nuts in it.  My only problem is every time I go to buy a bag I score the noob employee at the LFS who tries to talk me out of it.

Edited by Grubs
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Hey Grubs that's interesting. I'd never noted (or looked for) a real GH or TDS shift from the midnight but we used it for many years and it spiked the pH for us long term. Evidently it does affect the GH too, at least for a short while. 

 

JayC, I don't know that it is granite. It's a uniform, mined river gravel and not a decomposed composite rock. I have seen a black granitic sand in shops more recently that's very black and a bit shiny. 

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I asked about the black gravel and he said they buy it in bulk from aquafish and he said hes sure its inert. I tested it and seems he's correct luckily! Not sure what to do with the white stuff. Contemplating using it in my endler guppy tank. I dont think there would be any issues with that surely?

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so if i got something like this

 

http://www.thetechden.com.au/Pisces_Ice_White_Natural_Gravel_Stone_5kg_p/gravel009.htm

 

or

 

https://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=6697&catID=100

 

it wont change my ph?

 

it says Ph Neutral and Will not alter water chemistry, so its safe?

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  • 1 year later...

I'm going through this issue once again. Now on my second lot of gravel purchased from an lfs which seems to increase tds dramatically when left in a cup of RO overnight. The first lot was a 3mmblack granite I believe and this current gravel I have was river gravel. *sigh*.

I'm currently thinking of using thick fine sponge as a layer of "substrate" on the bottom of my tank.

Does anyone see this causing a huge issue shortly down the track? The surface area would be a massive bonus. I am prepared to shut down tank and move all shrimp every 2 years regardless..

❤✌?

Will 

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Why sponge as a substrate?

surely a bare bottom tank would be easier. 

But if I had to choose an alternative to gravel, sand or plant substrates, I would choose a leaf litter & twigs on bare bottom. The natural look.

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I'm trialling barebottom at the moment in my ycs tank with the aim of being able to make better selections. But I'm hating that the crap flies everywhere whenever I cull. I haven't sold any yet and I imagine customers won't appreciate a bag full of mulm and neither will the shrimp enjoy the transit too much either.

I thought the sponge would be good due to the large surface area for biofilm.

Ostracods and shrimplets can get a little ways into this particular sponge and pick out most of the food but as someone pointed out to me the risk is that too much muck could get trapped.

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I have never heard of anyone using sponge as a substrate. I think you'll be on your own there. So you can be the first to trial it for pros and cons.

Of course, you won't be able to "plant" any thing. But that might not be a priority for you.

Then again, maybe you could plant stem plants. Cut a slit into the sponge and insert into the the slit. The sponge would even hold the stem keeping the plant in place.

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Probably because it's a fairly crazy idea. I'm sure it can be utilised with some benefit. Maybe not with dwarf shrimpkeeping but in larger tanks or ponds.

With tiny shrimp and vacuuming the sponge where possible I wonder how often you would need to change said "substrate" once trapped organic material clogs up too much of the pores in the sponge to be a healthy habitat for the right kind of bacteria

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  • HOF Member

Interesting that you have issues with inert river gravel Will  as I am having the same issue of rising TDS in a river gravel tank. It's only about 60 points a week but it still is an issue - my other tanks treated the same way stay reasonably stable with only a very small or no  rise over the week .  

I have had issues with Pisces gold sand as well even after being assured it was inert and their black gravel - forgot the name - but again the company assured me it was inert. I never left the Pisces in the tanks for more than a month so don't know long term effects but it was a very expensive exercise. It looked great though I must admit but just not worth the risk with the shrimp unfortunately.

I'm not sure what I will do about the river gravel at the moment weekly water changes keep it manageable but long term I think I will be going back to buffering substrates. I am only trialling the gravels in my Tiger tank and yellow Neos but can't see any difference in their colour or behaviour to when they were in lower ph tanks .

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My two cents on the matter would be that you would struggle to find a truly inert river gravel, especially if it has come from an area with any sort of igneous rock. I would think that the natural instability of a lot of the minerals in granitic rocks would contribute to TDS rises, could be a neat little experiment to figure out which particular rocks were responsible. 

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If you really want an inert white sub then try pool filter sand. About $20 for 20kg bags so you will get way more than you need but it works well for shrimp. Food tends to not go through it so there is no build up of uneaten food like in a gravel.

Depending on the supplier, some is very white and some just off white.

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