Jump to content

Temperature effects on Shrimp eggs hatching & gender of shrimplets


jayc

Recommended Posts

While surfin in the quest to gain more knowledge about shrimp and shrimplets, I stumbled across this chart
(it's not my own and I don't claim any credits for it, I don't know who created it either apart from the text within it that mentions a name and site)

conv_3718.jpg

Same info in a simpler chart.
conv_3719.jpg

This is great info for an estimation of how long eggs will be held for before hatching.
However, this got me thinking.

Does the temperature of the water determine the sex of shrimp?
In most fish, as in mammals as well, their gender is determined by the presence of a pair of sex chromosomes present in each cell of their body. External environmental factors normally have no impact on their gender. In the case of some species however, it is now clear that the temperature is the crucial factor which controls the gender of their young. Known as temperature-dependent sex determination (TSD), this method of reproduction is most commonly associated with reptiles, such as certain Crocs and turtles which lack sex chromosomes, but also present in some fish. I have apistos that generally tend to develop more males in warmer temps, and more females in cooler temps.

Of course temperature is not the only thing that determines the gender of the species, chemicals in the environment also plays a role. But for the sake of simplicity, we are concentrating on temperature only.

So my thought was ... does TSD also affect shrimp?
I don't know for sure. There are some vague articles on the net, but not conclusive (not the ones I've read). But some articles shed some light of hope that temperature might determine the gender in shrimp (different kind of shrimp, not the ones we keep). There was one forum post (forgotten the site now) of a Singaporean (think hot weather) shrimp keeper who tends to get more male shrimplets than females.

This might be a good experiment for some breeders out there especially if they are trying for more males (higher temp) or for more females (lower temp).

We are only talking about a shift of 2-3deg C higher/lower. So assuming 24degC is ideal for CRS, then you'd adjust temps to 21-22 for more female shrimplets; or 26-27degC for more male shrimplets. This is only for the 3-4 week duration while the mama is berried until hatching. You don't want to keep them in temps that are not close to ideal for too long.

Happy to hear if anyone else has experienced similar or has more insight into the subject.

Edited by jayc
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great post mate love the information and charts. I used to work at a freshwater crayfish farm and temp definetly affects the sex of the juveniles. One thing I would say is im not sure if the swing would have to be even that big of a difference. 22degrees for freshwater yabbies would produce a far greater amount of females. Increase it to 24 and it was reversed. Id also like to say our water was kept at that temp during breeding and gestation. The change in the male to female sex ratio is natures way of ensuring there is always sustainable populations and so if u only change It during the gestation you probably wont see the full effect. Tds is a tricky one cause it measures so many different minerals and so 2 bodies of water can have the same measurments of tds but totaly different chemical formulas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the response Michael. Your experiences in a crayfish farm is certainly handy.

That's good to hear, cause it's again one step closer to confirmation. Crayfish and Crystal Red Shrimp might not be the same, but I guess it's similar enough to count it as one step closer.

So what you are saying is .. the temps need to be set before the gestation period? Like when you start seeing the female shrimp saddled?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

During a wet season the fresh water will flow into the waterways lowering the water temp this affect signals the optimum conditions for all creatures living in the water to breed so this is why the change. If there is lots of food and freshwater the population will grow fast hence the female juvies. When the dry season comes the temp get higher and the population needs to be sustained not grown so more males are produced. Im not sure if the water is kept consistency lower during the saddling fase or during gestation only. But id suggest during both would be best . thats what we did. Id also say that if u raised it for a while then lowered it quickly it would probably help as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • HOF Member

The effect of a rush of cooler water is also noted with shrimp when doing a water change, if the water going into the tank is slightly cooler than the water in the tank often - not always- causes a bout of breeding . I'm not recommending that you suddenly put cold water into your tanks but if there is a slight difference it may trigger some breeding. When I was breeding the hardier Red Cherry I often just added room temp water and the next day I would find quite a few berried girls.:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tds is a tricky one cause it measures so many different minerals and so 2 bodies of water can have the same measurments of tds but totaly different chemical formulas

Huh?

TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) or TSD (Temperature-dependent Sex Determination)?

I asked if TSD affected shrimp, like it does for some reptiles, and fish. And by the sounds of your reply it does, at least with crayfish.

Not "does TDS affect shrimp".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The effect of a rush of cooler water is also noted with shrimp when doing a water change' date=' if the water going into the tank is slightly cooler than the water in the tank often - not always- causes a bout of breeding . I'm not recommending that you suddenly put cold water into your tanks but if there is a slight difference it may trigger some breeding. When I was breeding the hardier Red Cherry I often just added room temp water and the next day I would find quite a few berried girls.:)[/quote']

Yeah the change in cooler temperature is well know for triggering breeding.

Simulation of the wet season and fresh waters.

And we are starting to see more evidence that temperature also affecting the gender of shrimp.

I'd love to try this out. But not having enough tanks will throw any sort of experiment out the window.

We'd need a tank kept at 23-24C. A tank at 22C and a tank at 26C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This chart made the rounds a few months back. Great reminder though.

For those who bought the Breeders and Keepers Magazine, there was some minor mentions of temperature affecting the sex ratios of shrimp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This chart made the rounds a few months back. Great reminder though.

For those who bought the Breeders and Keepers Magazine' date=' there was some minor mentions of temperature affecting the sex ratios of shrimp.[/quote']

The chart is, as you said, just a reminder. The main discussion is how temperature affects the gender of shrimp.

What did the article say? - so is it confirmed 100% then?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting topic hadn't thought of it in Shrimp till now, funny though as I'm taking notes myself with cooking gecko eggs at 28.5c over 8 species to see if the slightly lower than normal temp favours tsd. Normal temps 29-30c for most Desert species I keep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting topic hadn't thought of it in Shrimp till now' date=' funny though as I'm taking notes myself with cooking gecko eggs at 28.5c over 8 species to see if the slightly lower than normal temp favours tsd. Normal temps 29-30c for most Desert species I keep.[/quote']

Yeah, funny how everything revolves around shrimp at the moment, for me at least. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Just bought a mulberry tree from bunnings.

Building a new garage, and the priority is the rain water harvesting system. LOL :encouragement:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The chart is' date=' as you said, just a reminder. The main discussion is how temperature affects the gender of shrimp.

What did the article say? - so is it confirmed 100% then?[/quote']

I wouldn't say confirmed, at least nothing I've seen in the scientific literature has proven anything. But if top breeders are noticing these things it is worth betting that there is something to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't say confirmed' date=' at least nothing I've seen in the scientific literature has proven anything. But if top breeders are noticing these things it is worth betting that there is something to it.[/quote']

Well, there are enough top breeders here. We should be able to confirm this.

I admit it's not an overnight experiment. But I'll certainly give it a go. Summer is around the corner, so temps in my tank will naturally be higher. I'll see what ratios I get at the end of summer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just had another brain snap,....has anyone got water temps that swing a few degrees?

In reptiles (pythons so far) some keepers have weird colour/pattern variants pop up when the temps were altered at an integral part of colour development in the animal whilst incubating.

Wondering if a swing of water temps at various times while in berry would possibly have the same effect. ??

I know were talking about aquatic v land based and the eggs are completely different just while were on the subject thought I'd inform others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's another cool thought on the subject.

However, seeing as colour variations are already so diverse, it would be pretty difficult to determine if it was impacted by temperature.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do I hear you volunteering BB?

You sure have enough tanks of shrimp to be able to conduct such a test.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

Bump.

Good info to have around.

I vote for this to be a sticky.

The info on hatching times is useful, and the discussion on temps influencing gender is ... Awesome!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Admin.

You guys are ninjas - turned this into a sticky very stealthily.

If no one has said it yet today ... GREAT WORK ADMINS! :beer:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
On 6 August 2013 at 11:49 AM, jayc said:

Does the temperature of the water determine the sex of shrimp?
In most fish, as in mammals, their gender is determined by the presence of a pair of sex chromosomes present in each cell of their bodies. External environmental factors normally have no impact on their gender. In the case of some species however, it is now clear that the temperature is the crucial factor which controls the gender of their young. Known as temperature-dependent sex determination (TSD), 

Of course temperature is not the only thing that determines the gender of the species, chemicals in the environment also plays a role.........

Happy to hear if anyone else has experienced similar or has more insight into the subject.

Interesting article @jayc only being new to shrimp I haven't even thought of this however in the past breeding cichlids kribensis can manipulate sexes if the ph is under 7 you should get more females and above 7 it should produce more males. My experience is I normally get an even spread of males and females maybe because the breeding tank is neutral 7.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Have you guys tried using Bonsai Driftwoods? Based on my research, Bonsai Driftwoods lower PH levels and stabilize water that makes fishes and shrimps have the best environment. I'm clearing some now, so let me know if you guys want to purchase one!

0A06F024-D56B-47FF-876C-70C1D2E722FE.jpg

20F30B08-492B-4E23-8EA7-3F8B78AA66D7.jpg

383AC351-FDE6-41DA-B2CA-BEB85C74B1F5.jpg

C2DA6F45-3E52-4648-9EA6-E7DC9D382404.jpg

C6022545-3F45-4C55-A9EC-742840ADF8FD.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, NatefromSa said:

Does the bonsai as much or as long as the driftwood?

 

Not sure I understand your question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
Not sure I understand your question.
Oops sorry,

Does the bonsai wood take as long as the driftwood to get waterlogged.

Sent from my VKY-L29 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, NatefromSa said:

Does the bonsai wood take as long as the driftwood to get waterlogged.

 

It really depends on the type of wood and how thick it is.

But in general, Bonsai driftwood is not as thick, as it's mainly roots and branches, with the middle being the only thick part. So it won't take as long to get waterlogged. The bottom root part also helps in making it easy to place rocks on the them to weigh the wood down.

 

Driftwoods that are from hard woods can take a long time to get waterlogged. And the thicker they are the longer it also takes to get waterlogged.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Join Our Community!

    Register today, ask questions and share your shrimp and fish tank experiences with us!

  • Must Read SKF Articles

  • Posts

    • sdlTBfanUK
      Good to have an update and good to hear you are getting shrimplets, so hopefully your colony will continue and you may not get to the point where you have to cull some to stop over population. These type of shrimp only live 12 - 18 months so the adult deaths may be natural? If you have the time I would do weekly 25% water changes, adding the new water via a drip system and do some vacuuming clean of the substrate each week, even if only a different bit each week! See if that helps in a few months and if it does then stick with that regime? It should help reduce any build-ups that may be occuring!
    • beanbag
      Hello again, much belated update: The tank still has "cycles" of 1-2 month "good streaks" where everybody seems to be doing well, and then a bad streak where the short antenna problem shows up again, and a shrimp dies once every few days.  I am not sure what causes things to go bad, but usually over the course of a few days I will start to see more shrimp quietly standing on the HMF filter, and so I know something is wrong.  Since I am not "doing anything" besides the regular 1-2 week water changes, I just assume that something bad is building up.  Here's a list of things that I've tried that are supposed to be "can't hurt" but didn't prevent the problem either: Dose every other day with Shrimp Fit (very small dose, and the shrimp seem to like it) Sotching Oxydator Seachem Purigen to keep the nitrates lower Keeping the pH below 5.5 with peat Things that I don't do often, so could possibly "reset" the tank back to a good streak, are gravel vac and plant trim, so maybe time to try those again. One other problem I used to have was that sometimes a shrimp would suddenly stop eating with a full or partially full digestive tract that doesn't clear out, and then the shrimp will die within a few days.  I suspected it was one of the foods in my rotation - Shrimp Nature Infection, which contains a bunch of herbal plant things.  I've had this in my food rotation for a few years now and generally didn't seem to cause problems, but I removed it from the rotation anyway.  I don't have a lot of adult Golden Bees at this point so I can't really tell if it worked or not. Overall the tank is not too bad - during the good streaks occasionally a shrimp will get berried and hatch babies with a 33-50% survival rate.  So while there are fewer adults now, there are also a bunch of babies roaming around.  I guess this tank will stagger on, but I really do need to take the time to start up a new tank.  (or figure out the problem)
    • jayc
      If that is the offspring, then the parents are unlikely to be PRL. I tend to agree with you. There are very few PRLs in Australia. And any that claim to be needs to show proof. PRL genes have to start as PRL. CRS that breed true after x generations doesn't turn it into a PRL. Neither can a Taiwan bee shrimp turn into a PRL despite how ever many generations. I've never seen a PRL with that sort of red colour. I have on Red Wines and Red Shadows - Taiwan bee shrimps. So somewhere down the line one of your shrimp might have been mixed with Taiwan bees and is no longer PRL. It just tanks one shrimp to mess up the genes of a whole colony. 
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Sorry, missed this one somehow! The PRL look fantastic and the odd ones look part PRL and part Red wine/Red shadow in the colour. They are still very beautiful but ideally should be seperated to help keep the PRL clean if you can do that.  Nice clear photos!
    • GtWalker97
      Hi SKF!   So I bought some PRL (or at least they were sold as such. These claims are dubious in Australia as people don't know much about the genetics, nor do they care as long as they can make a quick buck). After 8 generations of breeding true, I'm having around 1 in 200 throw a much darker red. They almost look like Red Shadows, but I don't know too much about those types of hybrid. Can anyone help with ID'ing the gene?   TIA (First 2 pics are the weird throws, second photo is their siblings and the last photo is the parents)
×
×
  • Create New...