Shrimps in my Pond in Ecuador

[cadoia]

Hi All

Im a foreigner living in Ecuador. I have my build pond in the garden around 10 meters long and 4 meters wide. Maybe 1.5 meters deep with shallow areas. 

Lots of plants in there. Guppies and a few cleaning fish. The dragon flies breed there as I saw their underwater versions in there too. 

About 6-8 months ago I bought 15 red cherry shrimps from a local shop. Some very very small. I released them in the Pond and basically didnt see them again for months. I was pretty sure they where eaten by predator insects or something as the guppies dont seem to do this. 

But recently I saw big fat red cherry shrimps wandering around. Its hard to find them but they are there. Now I also see another shrimp. same body shape. same size. but glass clear. I dont think its ghost shrimp as they are bigger. these are not. actually usually pretty small. 

Is there a shrimp species that looks like red cherry in form and size but is transparent? 

Or is this maybe a not fully developed cherry that will get its color later? 

even more important: will it maybe breed with the cherry and breed out the beautiful red color of the cherry? 

Also another question: I would love to see the shrimps all over the pond. Like a lot of them. How long would it take for them to "overpopulate" such a large pond? 

They seem to come to the shallow waters in the early morning to heat up. Easiest to see them then. But taking pictures is not really a option. 

Thank you

 

[Cesar]

17 hours ago, cadoia said:

 

Is there a shrimp species that looks like red cherry in form and size but is transparent? 

 

Hello @cadoia...

Genetics is a funny thing... depending on dominate and recessive traits, offspring don't always end up looking like their parents...

Sounds like you have a great environment for them to thrive in! Keep up the great work!

[cadoia]

1 minute ago, cesar said:

Hello @cadoia...

Genetics is a funny thing... depending on dominate and recessive traits, offspring don't always end up looking like their parents...

Sounds like you have a great environment for them to thrive in! Keep up the great work!

After some more research I found out im looking at males ;) 

If anyone would have any answers to my other questions it would be great. Thank you.

 

 

[Matuva]

If you have - or can have - some nice spots with moss in your pond, you will sure increase the chance of survival for shrimplets.

I have a smaller pond myself, heavily planted, with lot of mosses, guppies and red cherries, and I have a lot of cherries!

As for our question about the clear shrimp, might be a very low grade cherry, uncoloured, or you might have another color (yellow, blue, or else) which came with the juveniles you put at the beginning.
So, the clear one might the result of cross breeding. If this is it, and if you can catch it, and have a closer look, you might see it is in fact light brown, or clear with small brown stripes.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Matuva

[cadoia]

1 hour ago, Matuva said:

If you have - or can have - some nice spots with moss in your pond, you will sure increase the chance of survival for shrimplets.

I have a smaller pond myself, heavily planted, with lot of mosses, guppies and red cherries, and I have a lot of cherries!

As for our question about the clear shrimp, might be a very low grade cherry, uncoloured, or you might have another color (yellow, blue, or else) which came with the juveniles you put at the beginning.
So, the clear one might the result of cross breeding. If this is it, and if you can catch it, and have a closer look, you might see it is in fact light brown, or clear with small brown stripes.

Thank you Matuva

Im pretty sure they are males. Are males more active? swims more around? I did see Cherry males that was beautiful red color as well. They sat still like the females. So im still not 100% convinced. 

I did also see clear shrimps with a LITTLE red dots on them. So even more confusing. 

The clear ones are 100% clear. No colors. They seem more active. Swims more often. But not growing large. Stays same size as the Cherries. When there are more of them I might capture them on camera to show you. Its always a little too far away. Ill go buy a net. see if I can catch one. 

Considering 8 months ago it was 15 shrimps coming in. And how often I see them now. Almost every time. Im pretty sure they breed. Some are very small. some fully grown. For sure not same generation. There is a LOT of java moss. Another small plant that creates huge areas of hiding. Plus whole areas of dense aquatic grass growth where fish cant enter. There should be more than plenty places for Shrimplets to hide. So I think its going in the right direction. Just a matter of time. 

 

 

[Matuva]

Yes, males are smaller, thinner, and less coloured. They also have 2 longer antenaes than the females.

They are also more active, and very active when the female is ready to mate and release pheromone. When that occurs, you will see the males crawling, swimming like crazy. Some call that the "male dance"
Nothing critical, I often see human males doing so ^^)

As for the clear ones, and considering what you describe, I believe these are just "low grade" male cherries.

Out of curiosity, as you are in South America, do you have access to the Aegla platensis? This is an awesome critter!

Edited January 1, 2018 by Matuva

[cadoia]

4 minutes ago, Matuva said:

Yes, males are smaller, thinner, and less coloured.

They are also more active, and very active when the female is ready to mate and release pheromone. When that occurs, you will see the males crawling, swimming like crazy. Some call that the "male dance"
Nothing critical, I often see human males doing so ^^)

As for the clear ones, and considering what you describe, I believe these are just "low grade" male cherries.

Out of curiosity, as you are in South America, do you have access to the Aegla platensis? This is an awesome critter!

Ok I think its just low grade cherries then.... I saw this morning a clear one showing great interest in a large female. she just catapulted away real fast....... Just like us. males making a fool of themselves and the women splitting ASAP. ha ha. 

I dont care if they a low grade..... ill love them anyway ;) 

I have not seen Aegla Platensis no. I live in Vilcabamba Ecuador. Nearest town is Loja. The fish shops is a sad sign. I did see some kind of "lobster" looking many colors species. Large. He said it will eat EVERYTHING in my pond so I didnt buy it. 

 

I looked for Cherries for 3 years no luck. What I found was 3-4mm long babies. few adults. bought them all. He charged 3 usd pr. little shrimp as they dont come that often. I got 30 of them. 

I have 2 ponds. The large one. FULL of plants. 

The other is maybe 3 meters long. 1 meter wide. 80cm deep. Its location is not optimal and plants seems to not grow too well there. water is urky. Its newer. Plus I had large gold fish in it that all recently got eaten by a bird. 15 shrimps where put there never to be seen again. 

Until 1 month ago right after the gold fish got eaten they started to come out from the moss and plants. I have seen at least 2 adult females. and a few males. I was shocked. thought they where eaten. 

on top of that..... I have a big wooden half size barrel for my dogs to drink from when playing in the sun. I added plants and guppies in this barrel to create some life in there. Dogs love it. water is fresh. And what did I see last week? 2 fat huge cherry ladies. and a few really excited clear males. Along with a massive dragon fly insect that I would have thought would eat any shrimp ever to show themselves. The vegetation is going well. Its dense. Only way they can have gotten there is when I moved some plants over. Im impressed how they survive all this. 

I might end up with a whole shrimp farm reality here. at 2-3 usd pr shrimp in loja I might retire a millionaire in a few years ha ha. 

btw. checked water temp. for the first time ever in the big pond. 22 C in daytime. Ill check it again early morning to see how much it drops at night. its pretty much year round like this. Im at 1500 meters altitude in the Andes mountains. 

 

[Matuva]

Looks good! Yes, even though they are clear, they do carry the red gene anyways. And if you want to breed red somedays, just select the more red ones and settle them in a dedicated tank, you will easely select the brightest ones and achieve selective breeding to have nice shrimps.

My biggest pond is a lot smaller than yours: 1.5 meter long x 80 cms wide and only 20 cms deep. I made it for my cats to have a place where to drink (even though I have one always meowing to call to have a drink at bathroom tap).
This pond is heavily planted, and i have a good amount of cherries inside.

What is funny is that the cherries hosted in the pond are bigger and more of a bright red than the ones I am breeding in an aquarium at home. Very often now, I capture the excess of shrimp in the aquarium, put them in the pond, and capture the big females from the pond and put them in the aquarium.

I have also made 2 other small ponds in different areas - still for my cats - in fact basins about 90cms diameter and 20 cms deep, heavily planted too, where I put some carbon rili.
They do breed very easy, and I also have big mama in these ponds ;)

Edited January 1, 2018 by Matuva

[cadoia]

Oh man I wish I had access to all these different shrimp types. Not sure why I just love these little critters ;)

Your in New Caledonia? Had to Google it. Never heard of it before. If your there I guess its hot enough for outdoor shrimps. 

I was a little worried about the Temp here. It gets cold at night sometimes. Not sure how much a large body of water cools down at night. will see tomorrow morning. From my understanding they can handle down to 18 C. I see them getting the first sun rays in the morning so they might be borderline cold? Or maybe they can handle much more than I think? I actually think I read about a guy in Texas having RCS year round in his little pond. My guess is Texas gets pretty cold in the winters? 

I think ill take a ride to Loja soon again to see if any new interesting shrimps arrived. 

From what I read Ghost Shrimp gets big and eats the cherries. So does most fish. 

So im pretty careful to introduce anything that would hurt them. Would like to breed a huge colony. 

 

btw..... I think the shrimps out door gets better more natural foods and bacterias. hence they look better than your indoor ones. 

Im adding EM-1 effective microorganisms and also Adya Clarity to my ponds. bumps up life like crazy. 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2018 by cadoia

[Matuva]

Oh man I wish I had access to all these different shrimp types. Not sure why I just love these little critters ;)

I understand that. Be careful, shrimp keeping very often becomes addictive!!

Your in New Caledonia? Had to Google it. Never heard of it before. If your there I guess its hot enough for outdoor shrimps. 

Pretty hot place. During cold season, outdoors temperature can go down to 8~6 °c during night and 24°C during day, but in summer, lower temp at night are rarely lower than 17°C / night, and up to 32/34°C during the day.

I believe 18°C is really affordable for them, especially the red cherry which is very hardy, and so are the other Neo Caridina.

I have my Neo hosted with local Paratya and Caridina Typus, bigger than cherries, with no problem. As for the Ghost shrimp I don't know, but like you say, if not sure, better be wise and not mix them.

Here are some pictures of mines:

My orange

My red doing some cleaning on a fern i just introduced in their tank:

Some local "pseudo" Black Crystal" we can find it in the south of New caledonia. Very nice, but very difficult to succeed in the tank...

I have googled your place too, it looks a very nice place. And you have good chance to live very old according to the reputation of your place ?

Edited January 2, 2018 by Matuva

[cadoia]

Wauw nice pictures ;) downside of ponds.... no side view haha. 

 

oh yes its the valley of longevity. Im big on water. structuring it. energized water etc. so I pick up water for drinking by the waterfalls in the nearby national park. 

So your nights going to 8 C is not a problem even with your smaller ponds? 

I think circadian biology is suppressed in indoor tanks very much and this might be why your Shrimps look better outdoor as well. Temp swings may help some processes. Magnetic earth lines flowing through the waters. moonlight. etc. 

 

 

 

[Matuva]

Yes, 8°C seems OK for the red.

I have seen pictures from a US breeder who farms red cherries in outdor ponds, and the size of his red is impressive! You're right , outdoor ponds sure do better than indoor tanks, and circadian biology may help a lot in that process, I agree.

Going out for lunch, I'll be back with the carbon pictures then

Edited January 2, 2018 by Matuva

[cadoia]

Just now, Matuva said:

Yes, 8°C seems OK for the red.

I have seen pictures from a US breeder who farms red cherries in outdor ponds, and the size of his red is impressive! You're right , outdoor ponds sure do better than indoor tanks, and circadian biology may help a lot in that process, I agree.

Going out for lunch, I'll be back with the carbon pictures then

This was the video where I learned about difference in Males and Females. Im sure you already saw it but sharing justin case as its real EPIC camera work: 

 

 

If you have any links to these outdoor pond breeders I would love to see them. 

 

Enjoy your lunch. Almost bedtime here ;) 

 

[Matuva]

Well, here are the pics of my blue carbon rili snacking :

from these blue carbon, I have selected Blue Diamond and Black rose offsprings, mostly:

and also blue jelly with red nose and red tail:

That I am cross breeding with Red cherries, expecting to succeed in having red rili:
(note the very clear red, it does not come from the red cherries tank, but is an offspring I found in the black rose and blue dream tank... )

Those are funny critters

As for the US breeder, he is a seller on ebay, here is the pic from his advertising. Once I found the link to his listing, I will PM it to you :
As far as I guess right, it seems his shrimps are nice "Big mama" about 3 cms. I have succeed the same in my pond, but the ones in the home tank never reach this size:

Edited January 2, 2018 by Matuva

[cadoia]

Wauw nice pictures. 

Would love to get my hands on these variations. 

last picture is crazy. Never seen so large RCS. Wonder if mine will ever get this large. 

you feeding them or just leave them with natures lunchbox only? 

ok off to bed ;)

[Matuva]

I just left mother Nature feed them

[cadoia]

Ok Its confirmed....... They are breeding like crazy now. Since the Gold Fish got eaten by the birds and there is only Guppies left there are smaller baby shrimps coming out. Like a LOT. 

Before I had to search hard to find just 1. Many times I could not find one at all. Now I see them every day. Sometimes 10-15 in one area. Very small ones. I can see the population explosion is well on its way. My guess is in 1 year from now its going to look crazy alive. 

I got a string algae problem. I will have to go through the process of manually taking it out. wash it for any babies in there before throwing it out. Question: would is be even remotely possible they will multiply so much they will be able to keep a large pond clean of algae? Or they are far from this efficient? 

 

 

[jayc]

The cherries in my tank don't eat hair algae. Maybe because I feed them other food as well.

So if you don't supplement with other foods, they might be forced to eat algae keeping it in check.

 

[cadoia]

6 hours ago, jayc said:

The cherries in my tank don't eat hair algae. Maybe because I feed them other food as well.

So if you don't supplement with other foods, they might be forced to eat algae keeping it in check.

 

they seem to be grazing on the balls of string algae. Just wondering how much of a impact they could have on this if any. 

[Baccus]

For temperatures of a pond that cherry shrimp and with stand I have heard of people having cherry shrimp in smaller ponds over winter and the water freezing (well surface) and yet the cherry shrimp still survive. I believe there would be two possibly 3 main factors involved in cherry shrimp surviving the cold.

1. Aclimatisation eg putting the shrimp in the pond in warmer months and allowing them to gradually adjust to the slowly changing water temp as the seasons progress.

2. Having the pond large enough and deep enough that even down the bottom of the pond the water temp stays fairly stable. I have a large 1000L round pond (really a livestock trough) that is above ground to prevent cane toads breeding in it. This pond has a lot of organic matter in it from surrounding trees and this organic matter breaking down also ads a degree of warmth to the water. Small shallow bodies of water fluctuate much more throughout the day and night and are at the mercy of ambient temp/ humidity/ and evaporation.

3. Genetics, in almost any population there is sure to be some individuals that are best suited to the conditions they encounter. For example out of the first 15 cherry shrimp you purchased 5 might have immediately found the pond conditions (temp/ pH/ gH) not to their liking and died off pretty quickly while 5 more might have been able to handle it but still not be happy may have still bred producing better suited offspring. While 5 may have simply adored the conditions and become your main breeding colony. With their offspring being the best suited to the conditions.

I think with most algae the shrimp wont actually eat it (unless you have Amano, Darwin Red nose or typhus shrimp), instead most shrimp will graze off the algae and mosses eating the fine food particles and mirco organism that have collected there. It would also depend a lot on the actual algae since I don't believe any thing eats black beard algae.

In a pond situation with limited prepared foods added I still have found the cherry shrimp get much bigger than in a tank. I put this down to the sheer volume of water and diversity of natural foods along with survival of the fittest since my pond also has fish and dragonfly nymphs. Sadly all of the largest cherry shrimp I have found in  my pond have been pale brown  but that could be because I use the pond as a dumping ground for cull cherry shrimp.