RO - DIY mix to include KH rise

[Tayloss]

HI All,

I have been using @jayc DIY mix for my CRS for sometime now after finding all the chemicals here in the UK, and have seen some great improvements over the SS GH+ I was using... Certainly a cheaper solution than commerically made products!! Kudos to you for coming up with the recipe..

So, I now want to use the DIY mix for Neo's and have the ability to raise the KH in order to bring it in line with the KH/GH products. Just for reference, I didnt include the Iron or Manganese as I don't have many plants in the tank.. They don't seem to have suffered!

Which element can I replace with Calcium Carbonate to add some KH to the tank as the mix currenly mixes at PH of 6, which is fine for where I need it for the CRS, but I'd like to have the KH around 3-4 with an inert substrate I dont know how else to raise it without using tap water?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

[jayc]

40 minutes ago, Tayloss said:

have seen some great improvements over the SS GH+ I was using... Certainly a cheaper solution than commerically made products!! Kudos to you for coming up with the recipe..

That's great to hear Tayloss. It's cheaper AND an improvement over commercial products. Can't beat that.

The trace elements are purely optional, but it's not just for plants. It's not economical buying a whole box/bottle of trace elements for the amount used. I just had some in my garden shed, so I added a bit. However, I have no evidence the shrimp needs it. They get enough trace elements from a well balanced diet.

 

40 minutes ago, Tayloss said:

Which element can I replace with Calcium Carbonate to add some KH to the tank as the mix currenly mixes at PH of 6, which is fine for where I need it for the CRS, but I'd like to have the KH around 3-4

1. Just so I don't mess up the remin mix and ratios, can you tell me exactly what you use and how much? 
2. Are you 100% sure you are using Calcium Carbonate, and not Calcium Sulphate?
3. Can you also tell me what KH you are getting from the mix in 1L of RO water? <-- This will aid in getting the updated mix just right. (Don't measure tank water parameters, it's got to be in a controlled environment, so use RO water).

 

As a general rule, more Carbonates will increase KH. So more Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) and a bit of Potassium Carbonate (K2CO3) will raise KH and pH.

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by jayc

[Tayloss]

10 hours ago, jayc said:

That's great to hear Tayloss. It's cheaper AND an improvement over commercial products. Can't beat that.

The trace elements are purely optional, but it's not just for plants. It's not economical buying a whole box/bottle of trace elements for the amount used. I just had some in my garden shed, so I added a bit. However, I have no evidence the shrimp needs it. They get enough trace elements from a well balanced diet.

 

1. Just so I don't mess up the remin mix and ratios, can you tell me exactly what you use and how much? 
2. Are you 100% sure you are using Calcium Carbonate, and not Calcium Sulphate?
3. Can you also tell me what KH you are getting from the mix in 1L of RO water? <-- This will aid in getting the updated mix just right. (Don't measure tank water parameters, it's got to be in a controlled environment, so use RO water).

 

As a general rule, more Carbonates will increase KH. So more Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) and a bit of Potassium Carbonate (K2CO3) will raise KH and pH.

 

Thanks for the prompt reply, and I'll try and answer the questions above in order

1. So I followed your recipe exactly using the following: 55g Calcium Sulphate Di-Hydrate 37g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate 11g Potassium Sulphate. Using my bottle/syringe this equals to 65 drops per litre to equal 140-145TDS
2. I am not using anything as yet, just look for something to raise KH and saw Calcium Carbonate, but have seen Calcium Sulphate for home brewing too!
3. As above for TDS based on 1L is GH 6-8, KH 0, PH 6

As far as I can tell, your mixure isnt designed to increase KH but to just add some GH/TDS to the water?

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Tayloss

[jayc]

26 minutes ago, Tayloss said:

As far as I can tell, your mixure isnt designed to increase KH but to just add some GH/TDS to the water?

Correct. Because it is far easier to raise KH with some carbonates then it is to remove it. 

So for Neocaridina water parameters, you can add 25% tap water.

But if you want to avoid tap water, which I always recommend we avoid, then we need to adjust the mix.

 

26 minutes ago, Tayloss said:

I am not using anything as yet, just look for something to raise KH and saw Calcium Carbonate, but have seen Calcium Sulphate for home brewing too!

Gotcha.

 

Calcium Carbonate is the right ingredient to add to my DIY mix to raise KH for Neocaridina.

Adjust my DIY mix to:

40g Calcium Sulphate Di-Hydrate

20g Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3)

37g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate

11g Potassium Sulphate 

You can probably get CaCO3 at home brew shops as well.

 

 

Alternatively you can adjust the mix to the following:

60g Calcium Sulphate Di-Hydrate

37g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate

11g Potassium Carbonate (K2CO3)

 

You'll note I have raised Calcium up to 60g total. That's my latest formula from recent tweaks.

Edited November 12, 2017 by jayc

[Tayloss]

Gotcha.

 

Calcium Carbonate is the right ingredient to add to my DIY mix to raise KH for Neocaridina.

Adjust my DIY mix to:

40g Calcium Sulphate Di-Hydrate

20g Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3)

37g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate

11g Potassium Sulphate 

You can probably get CaCO3 at home brew shops as well.

Yes, I’ve seen CaCO3 in our local brewing shop, so won’t be hard to purchase and add.. so in the above, I’m still adding 60g to make the 108g total but adding 40/20g of CaCO3 on top of the existing recipe.. whats the advantage/disadvantaged to each? Should I mix both and test the levels?

 

 

Alternatively you can adjust the mix to the following:

60g Calcium Sulphate Di-Hydrate

37g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate

11g Potassium Carbonate (K2CO3)

 

You'll note I have raised Calcium up to 60g total. That's my latest formula from recent tweaks.

I’m currently cycling the tank with tap water, but plan to start the WC with pre-mixed RO.. as the TDS is around 350, should I do a 50% change WC with pure RO and then start to sort the final TDS/KH/GH with the mixes above, or just do a 90% with the RO mixes to 140-160?

 

Whats the affect on adding an additional 5g of calcium, aline the CA:MG?

 

Thanks for your help and assistance:-)

 

 

 

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[jayc]

6 hours ago, Tayloss said:

so in the above, I’m still adding 60g to make the 108g total but adding 40/20g of CaCO3 on top of the existing recipe

You are still adding a TOTAL of 60g of Calcium, made up of 40g Calcium Sulphate and 20g Calcium Carbonate.

 

If you use 60g of Calcium Carbonate, the KH and pH will be too high.

 

6 hours ago, Tayloss said:

the TDS is around 350, should I do a 50% change WC with pure RO and then start to sort the final TDS/KH/GH with the mixes above, or just do a 90% with the RO mixes to 140-160?

The latter. if you are changing that much water, you might as well change 90% and get the levels right straight out.

Then slowly acclimate the shrimp back to the new water. I assume you know how to drip acclimate shrimp, so I won't go into that detail.

 

6 hours ago, Tayloss said:

Whats the affect on adding an additional 5g of calcium, aline the CA:MG?

It was a recent tweak to my DIY recipe. Yes, it gives a closer ratio to the ideal 4:1 Ca:Mg.

 

[Tayloss]

Cool, let me order some in and will make the mix to see what I get.. Do you have any idea on the TDS/KH/GH balance?

Ideally at a TDS of 140, I'd like GH 6-8, KH 3-4, PH 7-7.5 - Would that seem about right for Neo's?

[jayc]

15 hours ago, Tayloss said:

Do you have any idea on the TDS/KH/GH balance?

It's best to test your mix, as a number of things can influence the result. 

Let me know what the result is.

 

15 hours ago, Tayloss said:

Ideally at a TDS of 140, I'd like GH 6-8, KH 3-4, PH 7-7.5 - Would that seem about right for Neo's?

Seems about right. But I like to aim for pH of 6.8 - 7.0 personally.

TDS can be higher for Neos. Up to 200 TDS. 

 

[Tayloss]

11 hours ago, jayc said:

It's best to test your mix, as a number of things can influence the result. 

Let me know what the result is.

Okay, I have ordered a small pack from online and will let you know of the test results once it arrives :-)

12 hours ago, jayc said:

Seems about right. But I like to aim for pH of 6.8 - 7.0 personally.

TDS can be higher for Neos. Up to 200 TDS. 

 

Is that up to 200 or can they reach 250 type level, but not recommended? They are going to be Blue Velvet Shrimps as they are my favourite. :-)

[jayc]

11 hours ago, Tayloss said:

Is that up to 200 or can they reach 250 type level, but not recommended?

Keep it UP TO 200. They might survive higher TDS levels but I don't want to recommend it as a normal practice.

[Tayloss]

Good news! Calcium carbonate arrived today.. so going to mix on Saturday, so will post the results..


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[Tayloss]

Hi Jayc,

I’ve mixed together the formula above, and didn’t quite get the results I was expecting..

So, this is the CaCO3 I’m using :


Which created this white liquid:

All seemed to mix together nicely and nothing appeared to be left over not dissolved..

However, I added 1ml to 1l of RO and the water turned and stayed cloudy:


I continued to test anyway to give an idea of the final parameters, so

TDS 160
GH 8
KH 2
Ph (pen) 9
Liquid (NT Lab) 8 - see below...



Have I messed something up in this mix or is it wrong type of CaCO3 as that is the only difference between the two mixes..

Is the cloudy water due to the Calcium?


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[jayc]

On 11/19/2017 at 1:26 AM, Tayloss said:

TDS 160
GH 8
KH 2
Ph (pen) 9
Liquid (NT Lab) 8

TDS, KH and GH is almost perfect. But pH is high. Is your pH pen calibrated?

Did you test pH of the water before adding the mix?

How much water did you add to the bottle with the mix in it? 500ml? Try adding more pure RO into the bottle to dilute it.

20gm of CaCO3 might be too much, try reducing it to say 15gm for your next batch. 

The white cloudy liquid is normal and won't be an issue in a tank. 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by jayc

[Tayloss]

TDS, KH an GH is almost perfect. But pH is high. Is your pH pen calibrated?
Did you test pH of the water before adding the mix?
How much water did you add to the bottle with the mix in it? 500ml? Try adding more pure RO into the bottle to dilute it.
20gm of CaCO3 might be too much, try reducing it to say 15gm for your next batch. 
The white cloudy liquid is normal and won't be an issue in a tank. 
 

Yes, I added to 500ml of RO.

Have now added an extra 250ml to make it 750ml and will retest this afternoon and get back to you!

Pen was calibrated, but I don’t find them that accurate at the best of times.. but will do it again before testing the next test mix..


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[Tayloss]

Just a bit of an update.. I’ve had to bin the original mix as it was too cloudy and never cleared in the tank, so am going to make another mix with less CaCO3...

Do I up the Calcium Sulphate when reducing the CaCO3 to ensure it always meets 60g


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[jayc]

1 hour ago, Tayloss said:

I’ve had to bin the original mix as it was too cloudy and never cleared in the tank, so am going to make another mix with less CaCO3

That's strange. The amount used should not even be perceivable in a tank. I can't imagine that you would be using so much that the tank remains cloudy even after an hour.

 

And yes, up Calcium sulphate when adding Calcium carbonate to always meet 60g calcium.