Newbie, of course..

[Boneless]

Hi everyone! First let me start off by saying that I have impromptu decided to take on a task I've never done before, that being raising shrimp. I also am adding on the task of starting my very first ever planted tank, since I read it was much better for the shrimp to live and breed.

 

Now, I am doing a nano tank, so the main plant I'm thinking about using right now is Java Moss. I want a low light, no co2, low upkeep plant that will slowly spread to carpet. I've read conflicting stories on if java moss will do this for me. Im also wanting a plant that will grow up, but not too tall. Was considering flame moss, but not sure if that fits my needs.

 

 

For the shrimp, I want to use red cherry shrimp. Now here is where I get confused. I've been watching a lot of tutorials on YouTube, and at first the set ups were pretty basic, but some recent videos I've watched have been adding things like minerals and these small ball things to the tank, then mentioned that you can't use dirt or sand for shrimp. Now this is my problem, because the low maintenance planted tutorial I was using had me use basic soil without fertilizer, covered in sand, as my base. The tutorial was made as a shrimp tank, so I'm very confused.

 

So my questions ...

Do I NEED minerals for cherry shrimp? If so, what minerals? Can they go on top of the substrate, since my tank is set up and cycling? (Minus plants and animals)

Is the substrate okay for cherry shrimp?

Do you know any other plants that can thrive without co2 and with low light that would do well with cherry shrimp?

 

Thanks guys!

[jayc]

1 hour ago, Boneless said:

the main plant I'm thinking about using right now is Java Moss. I want a low light, no co2, low upkeep plant that will slowly spread to carpet. I've read conflicting stories on if java moss will do this for me. Im also wanting a plant that will grow up, but not too tall. Was considering flame moss, but not sure if that fits my needs.

Java moss won't carpet. It grows in all directions. Similarly with flame moss, it grows in all directions. I could construct a frame for it to try manipulating it's growth patterns, but it will still grow in all directions. Pruning it into shape will be necessary to shape it. But that's a lot of work. It's possible I guess, but yeah, lots of work to keep it in it's shape.

You might get better carpeting results with Mini Pellia.  Mini Pellia can do well with low light and no CO2.

Other non carpetting types of plants that do well in a low light, low tech shrimp tank includes but not limited to ... subwassertangs, anubias, crpyts, java ferns. 

 

1 hour ago, Boneless said:

some recent videos I've watched have been adding things like minerals and these small ball things to the tank,

Depends on what minerals were added, but yes, shrimp tanks need maintenance to keep GH, KH, TDS and pH in a suitable range for the type of shrimp. Which means adding minerals, or removing minerals by water changes.

Maintaining GH and TDS is fairly common in a shrimp tank. Which means controlling the amount of Calcium and Magnesium. You can get premade products like Salty Shrimp GH/KH+ (increases TDS, GH and KH), Salty Shrimp GH+ (Increases only TDS and GH). 

There are several other shrimp brands that sell similar Remineralising products to maintain TDS and GH/KH during water changes and setting up a new tank.

Those balls you mentioned also assist with releasing minerals like calcium and magnesium into the water. But very slowly. Think of them as slow release mineral balls. 

I suggest reading as many articles and posts in the Water Parameter section to start getting you head around this subject. Then start a post to get further clarification on any thing that is still unclear.

 

1 hour ago, Boneless said:

Now this is my problem, because the low maintenance planted tutorial I was using had me use basic soil without fertilizer, covered in sand, as my base.

A Red cherry tank with low light mosses will not need plant substrate. You can get by with inert gravels without ferts. Avoiding ferts in a shrimp tank helps a lot with maintaining stable water parameters. 

[Madmerv]

Hi @Boneless. Welcome to SKFA.

Before asking what you need for your tank it is always best to tell us what you have. To get a grasp of the WP then you will need to get your water tested, or purchase a good test kit, and then let us know the things that @jayc mentioned. PH, KH,GH etc.

Getting it tested at a good aquarium shop is always a good start, and usually free. The Walmarts of the pet world will test your water also but may just tell you that "it is all good" (that really ticks me off) or they dont test for the more important things that a shrimp keeper needs to know. Investing in your own Master test kit and having a GH, KH test as well as a TDS pen will make it a lot easier for you in the long run.

As you must have been looking around the web at planted tanks and especially tanks for shrimp i'm sure you have seen some good looking tanks that have had more than just moss in them. It might seem a bit daunting at first but there are a lot of different plants that do well in lowish light and are super easy to grow. Tanks are just like your garden. Some plants that you plant just never seem to do well no mater how much you try and some just love where you have put them so grow really well. My cherrie tank has some crypts, anubias, flame moss, fissidens and surprisingly a Monte Carlo carpet that is growing really slow but looking great. A nano tank is relatively easy to get some type of plant carpet going as there is not a huge distance of water that the light has to travel through. A cheap LED will do the job.

[jayc]

59 minutes ago, Madmerv said:

fissidens and surprisingly a Monte Carlo carpet

Oh yeah, forgot about these two.

Fissidens are my fav. Mine all died out not long ago.

Send some my way the next time you trim some @Madmerv. 

[Boneless]

Oh jeeze now I'm a bit more confused because you're listing abbreviations I've never heard of before ? I'm going to look for this water section you mentioned. I was planning on getting the API Master Test kit that measures nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, and pH as that's all I've ever needed to know with my fish. Of course shrimp need minerals and things so I suppose there's a lot more to it ?

Thank you for the education, and the plant suggestions! I'm going to go seek this water section now to learn more!

8 hours ago, jayc said:

 

A Red cherry tank with low light mosses will not need plant substrate. You can get by with inert gravels without ferts. Avoiding ferts in a shrimp tank helps a lot with maintaining stable water parameters. 

I knew I wanted java fern, so I added the soil because of the tutorial suggesting that, then small black sand on top. There's no fertilizer in it, it's just a plain soil mix. I'll have to test the water in the tank to see if the soil is changing anything D:

 

Also, I planned on using bottled spring water because my tap water here is horrible (it literally smells like feces), but now I'm hearing that's bad for shrimpies :( I'm in Florida, so it rains almost every day here, but I'm not sure how easily I can gather enough water for water changes, and then that involves adding all sorts of the minerals right? So is Spring water bad if it ends up testing okay for all those minerals?

Edited July 17, 2017 by Boneless

[Madmerv]

Sorry for the abbreviations there @Boneless. Confusion is good because it means you are starting to understand that there are things that you need to know that you didnt even know you needed to know...Lol

The API master test kit is good to start checking the WP (Water Parameters) and in the same isle will be the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness) test kits. Some people have trouble reading the API tests but for the price they are good enough in my opinion. A TDS pen (total disolved solids) and a PH pen can be purchased online for a pretty cheap price.

If it rains almost every day then rain water would be a great option. Bottled spring water is usually just well water that has been run through a RO (reverse osmosis) unit and it will not have the desired minerals. A remineralizer like Salty Shrimp GH/KH+ would be the easiest way to get what you want because you just add x amount to 5G of water and bingo it's done. Add to the tank. As a general rule shrimp tanks just need 10-15% WC (water change) every week so with a small tank you are not really needing to have much rain water stored for a months supply.

In your first post you stated Java Moss and the last post was Java Fern. These are two completely different beasts. The moss has a tendency to attach to everything in the tank if you have given it a trim and can be hard to remove if you get sick of it. The fern is a leafy plant that has a rhizome which can be attached to wood/rocks but needs to be kept out of the substrate or the rhizome will rot away and the plant will die. Both are still good choices for a shrimp tank.

The substrate you have is still going to be ok in your tank providing it is inert and does not leach undesirables into the water. A lot of the better looking planted shrimp tanks use a planted tank soil and that does leach nutrients as well as buffering the water PH so there is just a lot more checking and adjusting of the WP to keep it ok for shrimp. Some of the more exotic shrimp can not be kept in this situation but cherries are a pretty resilient bunch providing everything is stable. Stability takes time so dont rush it and cycle the tank well. Add the plants as soon as the Ammonia has dropped off to give them time to adjust to the tank and build up some bio film for the shrimp to graze on.

[Boneless]

5 minutes ago, Madmerv said:

Sorry for the abbreviations there @Boneless. Confusion is good because it means you are starting to understand that there are things that you need to know that you didnt even know you needed to know...Lol

The API master test kit is good to start checking the WP (Water Parameters) and in the same isle will be the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness) test kits. Some people have trouble reading the API tests but for the price they are good enough in my opinion. A TDS pen (total disolved solids) and a PH pen can be purchased online for a pretty cheap price.

If it rains almost every day then rain water would be a great option. Bottled spring water is usually just well water that has been run through a RO (reverse osmosis) unit and it will not have the desired minerals. A remineralizer like Salty Shrimp GH/KH+ would be the easiest way to get what you want because you just add x amount to 5G of water and bingo it's done. Add to the tank. As a general rule shrimp tanks just need 10-15% WC (water change) every week so with a small tank you are not really needing to have much rain water stored for a months supply.

In your first post you stated Java Moss and the last post was Java Fern. These are two completely different beasts. The moss has a tendency to attach to everything in the tank if you have given it a trim and can be hard to remove if you get sick of it. The fern is a leafy plant that has a rhizome which can be attached to wood/rocks but needs to be kept out of the substrate or the rhizome will rot away and the plant will die. Both are still good choices for a shrimp tank.

The substrate you have is still going to be ok in your tank providing it is inert and does not leach undesirables into the water. A lot of the better looking planted shrimp tanks use a planted tank soil and that does leach nutrients as well as buffering the water PH so there is just a lot more checking and adjusting of the WP to keep it ok for shrimp. Some of the more exotic shrimp can not be kept in this situation but cherries are a pretty resilient bunch providing everything is stable. Stability takes time so dont rush it and cycle the tank well. Add the plants as soon as the Ammonia has dropped off to give them time to adjust to the tank and build up some bio film for the shrimp to graze on.

Is there a pen or digital kit for the other things? The color isn't too hard to read for me but if there's something that will read to me plain as day I can definitely see the appeal. I found the pens and the other kits and added them to my list.

I was planning on having java fern for sure, but was seeking suggestions for carpeting plants, so that's why I mentioned java moss. Java ferns can't be planted? Man. Some of these tutorials have me stressed out! Lol

The spring where the water comes from is actually a local spring, maybe 15 minute drive away, so I know it's proper spring water and not well water. I know over here in the US at least a lot of "spring" water is just tap water run through a filter, since we drink the spring water too we wanted to be sure what it was and where it's from.

 

I wasn't planning on adding shrimp for a good long while, because I was some super bright red cherries and the only ones locally aren't red at all, so I will need to buy them online. Of course they will be super expensive, so I'm going to let the tank cycle for a long while first so I don't waste money lol. I might put a Betta or some guppies to help the cycle later, after I get the plants added. Not adding the plants until I can test the water params, and I'm waiting on my master test kit in the mail sometime next week lol.

I won't have any readings or anything until maybe this time next week, so for now I'm just talking haha

[jayc]

3 hours ago, Boneless said:

Is there a pen or digital kit for the other things?

pH and TDS meters are the two most common and readily available.

There might be others, but they are not easy available and are too expensive for hobbyist.

 

 

3 hours ago, Boneless said:

The spring where the water comes from is actually a local spring, maybe 15 minute drive away, so I know it's proper spring water and not well water. I know over here in the US at least a lot of "spring" water is just tap water run through a filter, since we drink the spring water too we wanted to be sure what it was and where it's from.

No drinking water is left unaltered, even if the source was from a local spring. 

The water from a local spring would have too much organisms in it, and it would be too acidic. All drinking water would be at least filtered and made more alkaline, otherwise the acidity would rot your teeth.

So test the pH at the very least. If possible test all the usual water parameters of your spring water before using it.

Collected rain water would be best. Rain water with some added Calcium/Magnesium remineraliser is what I use for my tanks.

 

 

[Boneless]

55 minutes ago, jayc said:

pH and TDS meters are the two most common and readily available.

There might be others, but they are not easy available and are too expensive for hobbyist.

 

 

No drinking water is left unaltered, even if the source was from a local spring. 

The water from a local spring would have too much organisms in it, and it would be too acidic. All drinking water would be at least filtered and made more alkaline, otherwise the acidity would rot your teeth.

So test the pH at the very least. If possible test all the usual water parameters of your spring water before using it.

Collected rain water would be best. Rain water with some added Calcium/Magnesium remineraliser is what I use for my tanks.

 

 

I'm going to try and set up a way to collect rain water to see how much I can get in a week. It's stormed twice today, so there's that xD

[jayc]

55 minutes ago, Boneless said:

I'm going to try and set up a way to collect rain water

I've got a Leaf Eater rain harvester system on one of my gutters that feeds 2x small 100Litre tanks. 

Easy to install by anyone remotely handy. Hacksaw the appropriate length out of the existing downpipe. Slide the leaf eater system into place and wait for the next rain.

The additional benefit of that system is that leaves in the gutter gets flushed out, and doesn't clog my gutter. I also have free water for the garden plants. This system also has a "first flush", which discards the initial few litres of rain, which has all the dirt from the roof.

An additional benefit with water collected in tanks, is that I can pre-treat the water with peat to get water suitable for my Apitos and Killi fish.

I've got two of these raintanks.

I have several aquariums for fish as well, and free water is great. I can do water changes without feeling guilty about wasting water. Water is a precious resource in Australia.

Hopefully that gives you a few ideas.

Edited July 18, 2017 by jayc

[Boneless]

@jayc well I rent, so I couldn't go installing anything on the house itself. I was thinking a storage barrel with a sort of funnel contraption and just put it in my front yard where there's no trees. I'll need something to keep lizards out, though. I could just hook a barrel up to where the gutter already drains out... hmm. I'll have to see when the sun comes up again

[jayc]

1 minute ago, Boneless said:

I rent, so I couldn't go installing anything

I see. 

But your barrel under the gutter idea could work.

I've seen similar setups. A hole is cut out in the lid of the barrel, and a nylon mesh screen is used to cover the hole. Keeps mosquitoes, frogs and little critters out.

[Zoidburg]

Instead of using fish to help cycle the tank, just go out and purchase some "pure" ammonia. (diluted, of course!) Ace Hardware Janitorial Strength Ammonia or Dr Tim's Ammonium are two good choices. If you want to buy locally, be sure that the ammonia you pick up looks like water in a container when shaken! If it is colored or foams up, it's bad stuff - avoid!

It's possible to get some really nice looking red cherry shrimp and not pay a fortune for them! ;) You simply need to find another hobbyist who sells them! If you go through a store, you are likely to pay more. Be sure to avoid imported shrimp! They are the least likely to do well in your setup. (a good hobbyist sells juvenile shrimp - stores that sell imports sell adults - juvies acclimate better!)

 

 

The API GH and KH test kits are easy to use. Fill a little glass tube with 5ml of water. Add one drop of GH, shake. What color is it? If it's orange/yellow color, then add another drop and shake. Do this until the color turns green. However many drops it took to turn green is the general hardness of the water. Same with KH, although it should start out blue (if there's any KH in the water) and turn yellow. My tap (from a lake that's fed by rain and snow) comes out at 3 GH and 3 KH, where-as my sister's tap (aquifer/well water) comes out 19 GH and 10 KH. Neither of which are good for shrimp...