Tangerine Tiger - yellow

[ineke]

Last year my tangerine colony started showing a few yellows. I did a search of overseas forums and found them mentioned there too under Caradinas Serrarata Fire Yellow. I decided to try and breed just yellows and started off with a nice trio. I now have a good size colony of yellows and find they breed almost 100% true with only 1 tangerine showing up over several generations. I'm not sure where I will go with these as I still prefer my other shrimp so will probably pass them on to someone else to continue with them. n

[Matuva]

Very nice ones Ineke, really, very nice ?

[ineke]

Thank you. They do look good and are extremely hardy .

[Zoidburg]

Honestly, they look like Yellow King Kongs... just recently got some myself (I think), and I figured they have TT blood in them.... although two have white on the top of their heads... something I've never seen before on a YKK.

 

And honestly, when I read "Yellow Fire", I think of the Neo Yellow Shrimp (aka Yellow cherries). Found an image labeled "Caridine Yellow fire acquari", but these do not look like Caridina to me.... with the backstripe, they look like Neocaridina.

[anthonyd]

Strange to have them appearing in your tangerine tiger colony without crossbreeding, as far as i' m aware they are usually tangtai hybrids.

[ineke]

These have not been crossed as far as I know and definitely not while I have had them. I initially only found 2 then over several months I noticed more so isolated them. The colony they came from were quite nice Tangerines. Around the same time I found some that had a green tinge to them . Coincidently another member here who has a completely different colony also found green tinged shrimp so he is working on a green line while I work on the yellow

i have had this colony breeding for several years without adding fresh genes. The quality of the original Tangerines was very high and I was surprised to find both yellow and green showing up.

While my colony has never been with any shrimp except blue diamond Neos.  it is entirely possible that at some stage prior to my purchasing them  the original breeder may have had them with something else - I can't be sure but then we can only ever hope that breeders are truthful about the genes in their colonies. It seems strange that a colony breeding true for several years would suddenly show hybrid genes but I guess it would be possible. Trouble is if my Tangerines have hybrid genes from way back then a lot of other Australian colonies will have the same problem as most of our shrimp come from a very small genetic pool given that it is illegal to import them. 

This is an old picture of some of the colony - lighting gives different colouring unfortunately

Edited April 17, 2017 by ineke

[Zoidburg]

Perhaps because you have such limited genetics, the colony was able to start producing a mutation(s) on it's own?

[ineke]

I think that is how many of our shrimp varieties have been started. If you look at the wild caught shrimp that started the hobby all the shrimp we keep have come from mutations in the wild original strains. if you search pictures of various colonies - in this case take the Tangerine Tigers - you will see variations in the colour in the colony now normally anything that doesn't come up to the colour or pattern we desire we cull from the colony but if something interesting as in my yellows we take them out and try to breed that variation or mutation. In the case of Fishmosy-the other member who found a variation in his colony - he prefered the green shrimp so he is trying to breed green tigers from the green tinge Tangerine Tigers he has. incidently as I mentioned before we both found these variations around the same time. Probably due to the limited stock here initially our breeding colonies are probably related even though we live in entirely different states. 

Back to the yellow KK no one will really share the breeding and how they got them- or at least the many breeders I have contacted will not share or cannot share the genetic makeup of their Yellow KK and I have tried contacting many breeders all over the world not just australia. Initially it was thought they were related to Taiwan Bees but some breeders dispute this even though they won't say how they bred theirs. It is however apparantly agreed that there is Tangerine Tiger genetics in the Yellow KK. 

At this stage I will continue breeding them to stabilise the colour until I can find someone interested in taking over my colony. Regardless of how stable I get the colour - and it seems very stable at this stage- I will always mention that they are Yellows form Tangerine Tigers as it is important for breeders to know where their stock comes from.

[Zoidburg]

I think I'd prefer to have your yellow TT's than the YKK that I just received. Two have "white heads", something I've never seen in YKK's before...

 

And if I could have found Yellow TT's in the USA, I would have probably gone after them instead! Just wasn't aware they existed.

 

Picture for reference... (sending to the breeder, too)

 

[ineke]

The white head is unusual but I have seen white zebra stripes on the back of KK's. If as some claim the yellow KK have Taitibee in them that would explain the head markings. Unfortunately with any shrimp that has hybrid genes in their back ground there is always a small chance of throw backs. I have a huge Taitibee population - so big I have had to put some outside in a pond- and I continue to get similar patterns showing up after several generations without that pattern having been seen. I struggle to get any truly consistent results in my Taitibee patterns except for CRS and Taiwan Bee patterns- once I start getting them back they seem to continue to breed true - but the patterns I want don't want to stabilise even after 12 generations where most of mine are now. 

Thats one of the reasons I don't believe my Yellows are hybrids as they are continuing to breed true.

[Zoidburg]

I feel the need to look for yellow TT's now as I want something that will breed true... and the yellow shrimp can be quite stunning!

Someone recently brought up the YKK's in a group... first question being their's, the other two a couple of the responses.

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I was reading in a forum that YKk are actually a tiger cross (caridina mariae x caridina serrata) and contains no caridina cantonensis. Found it to be surprising.

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I read a long time ago it's tt x kk

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Yes, from everyone I have talked with it is a ttxkk and back breed to some degree.

 

I'm actually considering possibly setting up a TT colony to see if I could ever get my own yellows, knowing full well that could take several years to achieve, if at all! LOL

[ineke]

It's a shame I can't send mine to you ! We can't import legally and I doubt they could be exported either and certainly not worth the risk unfortunately ?

[Zoidburg]

Coming from the pet bird hobby, I'm fully aware of how difficult it is to get things in or out of Australia, unless you're in New Zealand! Even then, there can be hoops one must jump through to go either way...

 

But you're right! I'm quite jealous!

[Zoidburg]

An Ellen Wang supposedly got yellow shrimp from CRS x KK mix??? Not sure how though... someone else may have established their own yellow shrimp out of a mixed tank of Caridinas...

 

I suspect it may be hard to find "YTT" shrimp...

[ineke]

It does seem that all Yellow KK are hybrids. I am as sure as I can be that my Yellow Tangerine are not hybrids but as I don't know who bred the original shrimp there is always the possibility that a stray gene may have gotten in the mix . It just seems strange that it has taken such a long time to show up. One of the many shrimp mysteries in our hobby I guess. It is getting harder and harder to know whether a line is in fact pure regardless of the type of shrimp. 

I have had tanks sit empty for several weeks while recycling after substrate topup. All shrimp were removed, no new plants or moss added and yet after 2-3 weeks tiny shrimp appeared even after horrendous ammonia readings. I can only assume a female dropped her eggs while I was catching the last few shrimp and the eggs hatched despite the water conditions. I've dumped new subtrate into the water, added cold straight RO water into the tanks added salty shrimp directly to the tanks- thinking they were empty of course, and still found baby shrimp surviving in those tanks. This has happened several times over the years so I guess a stray shrimp is always a possibility when moving shrimp around for what ever reason.

[KillieOrCory]

Hi Ineke, I hope you are still going with these. I really like them great job!

When you have some spare I would be interested in giving them a go.

[ineke]

Hi Serkan great to see you back. I have a sizeable colony of the yellows - some are still a tad orange- and the yellow headed ones haven't bred yet but females are saddled now. My shrimp don't breed in winter but I've noticed berried girls in other tanks so shouldn't be long before they are breeding again. I will no doubt post pictures of the next generation and will let you know when I have some spare ?

[ineke]

I haven't forgotten that you would like some yellow headed shrimp @Fishmosy.?

[fishmosy]

Thanks @ineke ?