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KeenShrimp

The difference between BT-9, Bacter AE, Biozyme:

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KeenShrimp

 

For those of you that are unsure of the differences, I thought the below might help shed some light on these products.

Most Asian manufacturers do not disclose the composition of their products unlike the German manufacturers, so there is a lot of uncertainty out there as to exactly what one puts in ones tank once the packet is opened.

Firstly a bit about aquatic bacteria: most aquatic bacteria are slow- growing. This means that biofilm is produced slowly. Biofilm is a gel-like mucoid substance secreted by bacteria that they live in. Biofilm in aquaria are almost always gel-like. Because aquatic bacteria is often slow growing, the shrimp outstrips the biofilm faster than it can regrow. There are biofilm promoter products and direct biofilm products and combinations thereof.

Genchem Biozyme is a biofilm promoter: if you look at the ingredients, it does not contain bacteria at all. It is partially digested starch and cellulose and enzymes which are utilised by bacteria to form biofilm. Shrimp eat the Biozyme directly as well. It is basically a food source for your aquarium bacteria and is also fine enough for baby shrimp to eat directly.

Mosura BT-9 appears to be a mixture of bacteria found in aquariums to supplement your contained ecosystem to prevent sludge, increase ammonia-Nitrite-Nitrogen conversion cycle and to outcompete pathogenic bacteria for food by established colonies that are present rather than growth speed. Because none of the ingredients are disclosed it is impossible to say what is in BT-9, but based on my experiments, it is the slower growing aquatic bacteria, but it does form a nice biofilm over time if you do not have large shrimp populations that strip it bare. I cannot comment on other ingredients in the product as it is not disclosed. Overdosing fouls the water.

Queue the new generation products: someone asked the question wether it is possible to add an ‘artificial’  bacteria that grows fast enough not to be outstripped of biofilm faster than the shrimp can eat it?

Pediococcus Acidilactici is a lactic acid bacteria that is temperature stable, grows well in pH 1 -6.2 ( grows a bit slower in high pH but still grows faster than natural aquarium bacteria) and is an ideal food source for shrimplets and the cell division rate of this bacteria is fast. It does not naturally occur in aquaria.

Bacillus Subtilis is a bacteria found in nature from your intestines to plant leaves and outcompetes pathogenic fungus and bacteria for resources. It is very heavily used in agriculture like mango farming. It is not a direct food source for shrimp, but undoubtedly keeps your aquarium healthier based on controlled trials.

Glasgarten Bacter AE contains both the Pediococcus Acidilactici and Bacillus Subtilis as well as amino acids, enzymes and vitamins to activate the bacteria. When used as directed, it grows lactic acid bacteria biofilm fast and greatly increases shrimplet survival as result as there is constantly biofilm available as a food source. Overdosing fouls the water. A similar product available is ShrimpyDaddy Revive Vita that definitely contains a lactobacillus. Genchem Polytase does not contain Lactobacillus, but does contain Bacillus Subtilis, so does Dr Tim's probiotic.

Why is there a possible shrimp death warning on the Bacter AE container?: if you do not use an Oxydator in your aquarium and you add a large amount of Bacter AE to your tank, the bacteria will grow extremely fast and use up  most of the oxygen in a poorly oxygenated tank, possibly leading to shrimp death. This will not happen if you follow instructions and aerate your aquarium well. This is only a risk if you add a very large amount of Bacter AE.

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jayc

Very good summary of the 3 products. ?

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anthonyd

When starting to use bacter ae it is important to use very small amounts otherwise it will foul the water and after that it is better to use less than the dosage stated on the container. 

I personnally think it shouldnt be considered as a bacterial supplement, it is used as a feeding supplement and to increase the microfauna and biofilm in the tank.

NEVER put bacter ae under the substrate as it will rot and foul the water. 

 

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jayc
45 minutes ago, anthonyd said:

NEVER put bacter ae under the substrate as it will rot and foul the water. 

That's absolutely correct and goes for the other products too. Despite what the instructions say on the package,  these bacterial products are aerobic and need oxygen.

On top of the substrate or just a cm under its the ideal placement . 

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anthonyd

I had never heard of Dr Tim's probiotic. I just had a look on internet and it looks interesting.

Have you ever used it ?

I used SL aqua purify, was happy with it but i cant find a reliable supplier anymore.

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jayc
54 minutes ago, anthonyd said:

Dr Tim's probiotic

Not me. I have not needed to cycle a tank from scratch for many years.

But I know someone on SKF has tried it. Cannot remember who.

I have heard good things about Dr Tims products however. 

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Nico

Hi, where can you buy Bacter AE in Australia? Can't seem to find any local source. Or is it OK to import / buy this product from overseas or are there quarantine restrictions since it contains live organisms? 

Thanks :)

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jayc
22 hours ago, Nico said:

where can you buy Bacter AE in Australia?

Hey @Nico I'm pretty sure people buy it from overseas. 

You should be fine buying it off ebay or some website, but note, it won't be cheap, with shipping costs on top of the price.

Oh, and it doesn't have live organisms. It's dormant, and only becomes live in tank water after a few days. If anything, the beneficial bacteria is the same as the stuff you'd find in yogurt. 

But the real question is why do you want to import something that is difficult to obtain in Aus, and thus expensive to obtain, when you can find similar bacterial starters that are available in Aus?

For example, our site sponsor Tech Den has Dr Tims One and Only and is available for $35 (last 60ml bottle in stock )

https://www.thetechden.com.au/One_and_Only_H2O_PURE_60ml_Treats_114_litre_Aquari_p/81254001000.htm

plus $7.50 flat rate shipping no matter how many other items you purchase. So you can pick several other items up for a flat $7.50 shipping (except for bulky items like tanks and substrate I think). Plus 10% off your purchases if you use the "SKF" coupon code.

Not that Glasgarten Bacter AE is bad or anything, it just a bit more difficult to obtain here. Plus Dr Tims will do a job just as well if not better.  

Alternatively, find someone that already has an aquarium and ask them to give you a used filter media or a squeeze of the gunk from their filter media. <--- this is going to be better than any product you can buy on the market 110%.  Possibly free or for a beer. 

 

 

Edited by jayc

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Nico

 

@jayc Hi, thanks for the reply. I had a look at Dr Tims One and Only and it seems to be a different type of product? All my tanks are cycled and I use old filter media / water to setup new tanks. What I am looking for is a products that will help in building up the biofilm in the tank for the fry. Bacter AE looks like it is specifically formulated to do so. Also looking at their site it does contain bacteria cultures.

Here from their site:

Bacter AE Micro Powder adds important microorganisms, amino acids and enzymes to your aquarium. It enhancing water quality and improving the development of biofilms, which are essential for shrimp. The biofilms thus created provide them with a valuable staple food rich in beneficial proteins, especially improving the survival rate of young shrimplets. In addition, live probiotic bacteria improve the nutrient uptake of the shrimp and influence their digestive processes in a positive way.

 

Or do all these products do the same / similar actions at the end of the day?  Or yogurt? Maybe I'll try that!!.. LOL

I guess I'll give it a go and order some from OV. If it doesn't work then bad luck.

 

 

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jayc
3 hours ago, Nico said:

All my tanks are cycled and I use old filter media / water to setup new tanks. What I am looking for is a products that will help in building up the biofilm in the tank for the fry.

Ahhh, now I understand. That extra bit of info helps determine what you are looking for.

 

3 hours ago, Nico said:

Also looking at their site it does contain bacteria cultures.

Here from their site:

Bacter AE Micro Powder adds important microorganisms, amino acids and enzymes to your aquarium. It enhancing water quality and improving the development of biofilms, which are essential for shrimp. The biofilms thus created provide them with a valuable staple food rich in beneficial proteins, especially improving the survival rate of young shrimplets. In addition, live probiotic bacteria improve the nutrient uptake of the shrimp and influence their digestive processes in a positive way.

Yes, that's true,.but read further ...

also from the Glasgarten site ...

"The contained bacteria in Bacter AE Micro Powder cultures are activated as soon as they come into contact with water. They remove toxic substances and, together with all the other carefully fine-tuned components, they provide your aquarium with a good microclimate."

 

See, the bacteria is not exactly live. It's dormant until added in water. 

The specific bacteria they use, and most products use is  Bacillus subtilis, Pediococcus acidilactici (Lactobacillus)

which is what is found in yogurt. You could use yogurt, and it will work, but the dairy in yogurt will cause the tank to be unsightly/messy for a while (quite a while). 

 

 

3 hours ago, Nico said:

Or do all these products do the same / similar actions at the end of the day?

Pretty much all the same. The only bacteria that can survive in a bottle or in dry powdered form and be revived in water is Bacillus subtilis and Lactobacillus. (sidenote: These bacteria types are very tolerant of a wide range in pH and temps. That's why they can survive in the digestive system. )

That's why almost all bacteria in a bottle/aquarium cycling products use these types of bacteria. They aren't responsible for denitrification in tanks, ie to get rid of ammonia and nitrites. They are useful for creating biofilm and outgrowing the pathogenic bacteria that might be in the tank. Less pathogenic bacteria means less diseases. 

That Dr Tims One and Only product is apparently different. It claims to have actual nitrification bacteria, to tackle ammonia and nitrite.

But anyway, that product is not what you are interested in since your tanks are already cycled. What you want is probiotics for more biofilm. 

You can either get Bacter AE, or Dr Tims Eco Balance

https://www.thetechden.com.au/Dr_Tims_Eco_Balance_H2O_PURE_120ml_Treats_454_litr_p/81254001061.htm

Note: I'm not promoting Tech Den nor Dr Tims. It's just that TechDen has the product and it's convenient for me to link it to show you. Plus you get a 10% discount for being an SKFA member.

 

 

 

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Nico

Hehe.. I think I’ll stay away from the yougurt. Thanks for the info :-)

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jayc
5 hours ago, Nico said:

I think I’ll stay away from the yougurt

Wise choice.

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