ADA Amazonia too acidic?

[viridisornatus]

Hello,
I'm using about 5L of ADA Amazonia in about 40 actual litres of water (tank is a 2ft). The water is KH 0-1. The pH is 6 or less (unreadable) according to the API test kit. The soil is about a week old. I was wondering how soon it might buffer above pH 6, or if I remove some of the soil, will it buffer less from the beginning, or will it just keep buffering below 6 and merely exhaust sooner? I want the pH around 6.3 but I don't want to mess with KH. Thanks :)

[jayc]

17 minutes ago, viridisornatus said:

how soon it might buffer above pH 6

 

You you using tap water? or RO / rainwater?

 

[viridisornatus]

Melbourne Yan Yean reservoir tapwater for now, RO when I get shrimp :)

[jayc]

What pH is Melbourne water like?

[viridisornatus]

I just did a new test, water comes out of the tap at pH 7.2, KH 0-1.

[viridisornatus]

Hey guys, the tank is still reading pH 6 or below. I think I've done about 3 complete WC since adding the soil (rescaping mess). I removed about 1 L of soil before last WC. Does anyone know how long it would take this amount of soil to buffer above pH 6 and stay there long term? I understand that startup pH can be extreme.

Thanks :)

[Zoidburg]

What is the GH at?

[viridisornatus]

GH is 0-1. Not sure if it's accurate, it's tapwater with a bit of added Mg and Ca sulphates. Kit bottle arrived unscrewed with leakage. 

[Zoidburg]

Well, your pH might rise a little with more GH in it, or it may not. While it's going through it's cycle, you don't need to add any GH in there, but once it's done cycling, you should retest the the pH and GH after adding a GH remineralizer. (stay clear of any that also add in KH)

 

Not sure what shrimp you plan on keeping, but you'll want ~5 GH for most shrimp.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Zoidburg
additional info

[viridisornatus]

Thanks Zoidburg :) I hope to keep TB shrimp. I added the Mg/Ca for the plants in the tank as the tap water here is so soft. I just want the pH a bit above 6 to make it easier on the filter bacteria.

I just ordered a couple yellow pH pens off ebay to see how low the pH really is.

Thanks,

Stefan.

[viridisornatus]

I got a pH pen yesterday. Soaked overnight in storage solution, made up calibration solutions 4 and 6.9 from powder sachets and bought distilled water (Moores ultrapure refresh) and calibrated as best as I could.

Tank pH is around 5.5. Hard to be exact as the calibration at pH 4 is not the same as at 6.9, a couple degrees off. Have only been topping off water for over a week though, no more WC.

Cheers,

Stefan

[Zebra]

3 hours ago, viridisornatus said:

 

Tank pH is around 5.5. Hard to be exact as the calibration at pH 4 is not the same as at 6.9, a couple degrees off. 

What do you mean?

 

On 12/15/2016 at 0:39 PM, viridisornatus said:

I just want the pH a bit above 6 to make it easier on the filter bacteria.

Dont mess with it, Its not about what you want, Things just have a natural process they have to undergo as said above. And It sounds like your over complicating things or trying to rush shrimp in there. Just be patient.

"Hey guys, the tank is still reading pH 6 or below. I think I've done about 3 complete WC since adding the soil (rescaping mess). I removed about 1 L of soil before last WC. Does anyone know how long it would take this amount of soil to buffer above pH 6 and stay there long term? I understand that startup pH can be extreme."

Just leave it to do its thing, Then when its fully finished cycling and you are actually ready to add shrimp, Start remineralising the water  to your desired parameters before adding it to the tank, Then fix whatever issues youve got. Your changing too many things too be able to know whats going wrong IMO Change one thing at a time, Then watch to see what happens. basically KH exhausts aquasoils ability to lower PH and the harder your water the faster the soil is spent.
Hope this helps 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Zebra

[viridisornatus]

I made the calibration fluids using the packets that came with the pH pen. My water volume measurements could have been off or some other user error, or faulty pen, who knows? Either way, if I calibrate the pen to pH 4 in the 4 solution, it will not be 6.9 in the 6.9 solution, and vice versa.

 

It's hard to be patient, but I would also like to figure all the kinks out before adding shrimp. Which I don't plan on doing anytime soon. That's why I hoped someone would have some experience to share on the buffering behaviour of Amazonia. It's only 4L in 40L.

Cheers :)

[Zebra]

22 minutes ago, viridisornatus said:

I made the calibration fluids using the packets that came with the pH pen. My water volume measurements could have been off or some other user error, or faulty pen, who knows? Either way, if I calibrate the pen to pH 4 in the 4 solution, it will not be 6.9 in the 6.9 solution, and vice versa.

Cheap meters can be temperamental, I like to use lab strips.
But I think it doesnt matter what it reads after putting it through the first solution, You are supposed to adjust it with each solution, Some people use a 10.1 or something aswell but its known to have a short shelf life. Im pretty sure from memory the pen can be stored in the  4 solution. 
Do you have a TDS meter? Cause its best to test the water first so you know its 0ppm. or close enough to.

 

22 minutes ago, viridisornatus said:

It's hard to be patient, but I would also like to figure all the kinks out before adding shrimp. Which I don't plan on doing anytime soon. That's why I hoped someone would have some experience to share on the buffering behaviour of Amazonia. It's only 4L in 40L.

Cheers :)

I have pretty good experience with a range of different aquasoils including the old and new amazonia. Yeah it does have a strong buffering capacity, Especially if like said above you have a kh of less then 17ppm. The time it takes to reduce this effect is entirely based on the tds of your water, More specifically KH.

While a tank is cycling and stabilizing ph is going to swing randomly due to various factors like oxygen production by BB etc.  so theres little point in testing it, Just know its going to be quite acidic. 

If you want to learn more about the chemistry side of things, A great introduction to testing in general is monitoring NH4, N02 and N03 as a tank naturally cycles.

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Zebra

[viridisornatus]

Thanks for your help Zebra :)

I don't have a TDS meter yet, I can only go by the info the bottled water brand's site says - steam distilled etc.

So it's a given that the soil will lose buffering capacity over time and KH. Assuming all other parameters are constant, will the loss be linear, or will it drop fast initially, hold steady long term, then exhaust in the end, or some other pattern?

Thanks :)

[Zebra]

 

Yeah it slowly loses it over time. Initially the buffering is alot stronger in the first month or 2. After that you notice a bit more stability, Then it doesnt really noticably change much for years from my experience. 
Measuring GH and KH is OK, But especially with shrimp keeping its a good habit to get into to measure TDS cause if you understand how GH and KH relate to overall tds (Its usually about have the make up of your water) 
Then most of the time the TDS reading is enough and unless its way off the charts you can assume your GH and KH are ok. Say you have a Gh of 17ppm and kh of 53ppm and your tds is spot on 70ppm, That means theres nothinng else really in the water. 17+53=70 so theres not left over numbers if that makes sense. Someone else can probably explain the importance of tds better then me lol
If its been made by evaporating and collecting it will be 0ppm. BUT for the future a tds pen is like $5 and a great investment, They dont need constant calibration like ph meters. less moving parts etc.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Zebra

[viridisornatus]

Thanks Zebra, that sounds really promising about the buffering, you've put my mind at ease.

I definitely plan on getting a TDS meter and other essentials before I add shrimp. I've already got a RO filter, just haven't installed it yet.

Thanks very much,

Stefan :)

[Zebra]

I recently won some really cool prizes including a new tds pen. You can have my old one if you want, it still works fine. 

Idk maybe that's a hassle haha and it's easier to buy one off eBay.

But I would like to see my old one put to use by someone.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Zebra

[viridisornatus]

That's really generous of you, thank you. I have a few things I want to get from Newbreedaquatics though and I am thinking of getting the Xiao Mi pen.

[Zebra]

Yeah that's the pen I won :) Xiao Mi. Really nice tds meter hey, @newbreed aquatics is great. 

All my shrimp have gone mad for their foods. I'm going to order a heap of mineral balls and other stuff from them after the new year.

[jayc]

20 hours ago, Zebra said:

But I would like to see my old one put to use by someone

That's the SKF spirit. Well done for being so generous. 

[newbreed]

Good work @Zebra!! The SKF and Christmas spirit lives on!!

Amazonia takes a good six weeks to cycle, hard to be patient I this hobby but well worth the wait. I have had culls from cherries and TBs thriving in Amazonia for well over eighteen months now. It will sit at lowph,at or below 6 for quite some time,but that's a good thing for Bluebolts and others TB types. 

Let it cycle and all will be well!! 

[viridisornatus]

Thanks Jamie!

[Zebra]

Always good to pay it forward when I get lucky☺️
Can you please send me some info on the food bags you use Jamie  @newbreed They are very nice and I wanted to order some to package dry ferts. Much appreciated mate.
Cheers.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Zebra

[viridisornatus]

What are food bags?