Which disease/ illness causes this?

[Baccus]

This afternoon I noticed one of my lovely female black cherry shrimp dead, with a weird red/ rust colour in her head. I have tried taking photos of the problem, but not sure if they will be good enough for a positive id.

 

 

 

 

[Kaylenna]

Is the discoloration ON the carapace or is the color coming through from IN her head? 

If it's inside - might be similar to what got some of my shrimps... which might have been a bacterial infection. 

I never had any definitive diagnosis for mine and since I tried several of the suggested things at once, I'm not sure which, if any, of them helped.  (Hydrogen peroxide, water changes, UV sterilizer; all mostly aimed to minimize spread rather than cure those affected)  Hope your situation improves.

Check -

 

[Baccus]

I think it was under the carapace and the red colour was coming through the shell. The other black cherries in that tank all seem as happy as Larry, roaming about stuffing their little faces and no weird discolourations that I can see. I probably took out around 10 culls last night too and all of them seemed to be fighting fit.

I really hope this is just a one of event because I really don't want to be mucking about with medications in this tanks water. Not only does this tank house some whiptails that I had been chasing for ages but also notopala and nerite snails, along with my Pacific Blue Eyes.

I did  a very large water change lastnight and will give the tank a good check over this evening and see if it requires another water change.

[Baccus]

I just had a thought. Lastnight  the only odd thing I noticed about the tank that had the mysterious death was that something (I suspect some naughty whiptails) had heavily munched my anubuis plant. I know some plants like java fern are supposed to release mild toxins into the water when you trim them in a tank. So I am wondering if the damage the whiptails(?) have done to the anubius has made it release toxins to protect itself from further attack. And it is these toxins that have some how killed the shrimp, or perhaps she had a more direct contact with the toxins by also feeding on the munched leaves.

[bluestarfish]

It could be, I've seen a lot of conflicting reports on if it's actually the anubius that is making the harmful stuff, or the plant releasing previously absorbed nasties after being cut/damaged (ferts, pesticides, heavy metals, ect).

Edit: I lean more towards the former theory, mainly because there are people who can cut these plants without any damage to their inverts or fish, while others do, and the inverts in particular go belly up. Which tells me the key is probably in the conditions the plant grew in before ending up in someones tank.

 

I know other plants like cattails (bullrush) can absorb and store bad stuff in their rhizome, similar to how predators high up on the ocean food chain tend to build up high levels of mercury in their bodies.

 

Maybe best to take it out if you're very concerned?

 

 

Edited September 15, 2016 by bluestarfish

[jayc]

Is this the first choc cherry death in your tank @Baccus ?

[Baccus]

Yep first one to die, all the rest are busy doing their shrimpy things. Even the culls I took out of the tank last night where all healthy and active.

I have had the anubius in the tank for some time, I don't use fertilizers in my tanks and the only additive put in the tank is Blue Planet water ager/ conditioner to remove chlorine and chloramines. I did add a shrimp mineral ball but that was a few months ago now so I doubt it would have suddenly caused an issue.

I am surprised that the new whiptails took such a liking to the anubius, the adult female I already have never showed the slightest interest in any of the plants just like the nerites and notopalas don't. Orange spot BN also has never showed the slightest interest in the plants either so I am sure the culprits are the new whiptails.

7 hours ago, jayc said:

Is this the first choc cherry death in your tank @Baccus ?

Before going the rusty red behind her head she was a lovely dark blue black cherry. Feeling very disappointed to loose her. Every time I think I am having some luck with this colour morph some issue raises its head and puts the limited colony in jeopardy. The last problem was an invasion of dragonfly nymphs that decimated the colony.

[jayc]

47 minutes ago, Baccus said:

Yep first one to die

Well that explains something.

I notice with Choc cherries in particular, that when they die and are undiscovered for a few hours/days, they are often turning orange.

Its the same reaction when you cook prawns.

When crustaceans are cooked, the astaxanthin pigment's protein chains coating are destroyed in the heat, and the astaxanthin molecules are released, thus changing the colour of the crustaceans. 

I believe the same happens with Black/Choc cherries when they die. The protein chain in the pigment that gives them their dark colour is breaking down after death and turns them orangie. It's very pronounced in Choc cherries. 

This doesn't explain the death of your shrimp however. But it could be a "normal" death, that is not bacteria related. Or it could be an infection of the internal organs. Too hard to tell without a proper autopsy. Do you still have the carcass? ?

Peel back the carapace (head) and check if the discolouration is on the shell itself or coming from the internal organs.

Keep an eye on your other shrimps too. As I said, it could be just those once off deaths.

You have checked your water parameters, right?

Edited September 16, 2016 by jayc

[Kaylenna]

1 hour ago, jayc said:

I notice with Choc cherries in particular, that when they die and are undiscovered for a few hours/days, they are often turning orange.

Isn't that kind of coloring more even?  That is to say - the whole shrimp changes color, rather than just the head.  I haven't had/found a Choc cherry death yet (knock on wood, hopefully I won't have a rash of deaths), so I'm only guessing at what you mean by what I've seen on other shrimp, including the kinds we eat.

[Baccus]

Interesting what you where saying about the colour change when even the black/ chocolate cherries die, I know even the red cherries when they die the red colour changes making them look like a cooked prawn rather than the live vibrant red they had when alive. But as Kaylenna says the colour change tends to be an all over body change. I do suspect that I found the black cherry right after her immediate death because her eyes where still very bright, no cloudiness and even her shell was still very shiny.

I do technically still have the corpse but it would be pretty rank now because its spent the day in some ridiculous temp with equally crazy humidity out in the bin in the shed. If I am unlucky enough to find another dead one in similar circumstances I will try cutting it open and having a look.

I didn't test the water, I was due to do a water change already that was how I found her in the first place. Instead of doing a 25% - 40% change which I normally do, I did a much larger one (probably around 75%) on that tank just to ensure it wasn't a water quality issue. But I know from experience when it is a water issue usually the shrimp start hanging at the surface trying to escape and all are affected, or the snails start acting odd. None of this occurred in the tank everyone else was all happy and content.

[Kaylenna]

On 9/16/2016 at 4:56 AM, Baccus said:

I just had a thought. Lastnight  the only odd thing I noticed about the tank that had the mysterious death was that something (I suspect some naughty whiptails) had heavily munched my anubuis plant.

I have seen very similar damage to anubias... but it was caused by bad water conditions - there were absolutely no critters in the tank.  The tank had not be dechlorinated at all (the owner didn't realize chlorine is bad for plants too) and I suspect it didn't have proper bacterial support either.  It only took 1.5 days of my anubia being in his tank for the leaves to start melting like that (but the damage took another day or 2 to show fully).

If there was a water quality issue, it could have contributed to your shrimp death directly, rather than through any potential toxins the plants might or might not be releasing.

[Baccus]

Although  I can not give you the exact water stats the water is fine, the damage is confined to only the section of anubuis that was being nicely hidden/ covered by the floating hornwort. It was only because I shifted the hornwort out of the way that I saw the munching damage. I have had that particular anubuis for a couple of years now and it has gone through countless water changes, always using tap water and dechlorinator to remove chlorine and chloramine.

 The plant in front of the picture although not really in focus has also been eaten, which surprised me as well since in my other tanks nobody boths eating it.

[ageofaquariums]

Had the anubias been out of water? very similar to how air burnt leaves rot.

[Baccus]

No it has not been out of the water, even when I took everything  out of the tank to do a mammoth shrimp hunt I made sure everything was fully submerged in a large tub of dechlorinated water with an airstone running as well just in case of hitch hikers.