First CRS tank setup - advice/suggestion/feedback requested

[JGreen]

Hi guys,

 

I'm planning to setup my first tank for crystal shrimps (CRS/CBS,etc), I want to do it right from the get go. I'm currently keeping Red Cherries in 32L tank and I think I'm ready to move into Cardinias. However being relatively new in the shrimp keeping world I have tons of questions, I hope you guys don't mind helping me out. Suggestions and feedbacks are most welcomed. Many thanks in advance.

 

I'm going to use 45 cm cube with the following items,

- Substrate -> Cal Aqua Labs Black Earth Premium Substrate 9L Normal. Anyone has experience with this substrate? 

http://www.aquaristiconline.com.au/p/8745621/cal-aqua-labs-black-earth-premium-substrate-9l-normal.html

I was wondering whether I need the fine version of the substrate on top of it to make sure I don't have bits of food falling down into the crevices? The problem is that it's pretty expensive  (http://www.aquaristiconline.com.au/p/8745622/cal-aqua-labs-black-earth-premium-substrate-9l-powder-extra-fine.html)

 

- Lightning : Up Aqua Pro LED Z15 45cm. Will this enough for plants which require medium lightning? I would like to have some sort of carpet plants in foreground, mosses at least.

http://www.aquaristiconline.com.au/p/8781012/up-aqua-pro-led-z15-45cm.html

 

- Filter : AquaClear 20 - Hang on Filter. Will this be enough?

http://www.aquaristiconline.com.au/p/6117795/aquaclear-20-.html

- Plants, accessories, bits and pieces -> I don't really know what else I need, so far I have the following in my list,

 - Feeding tray -> http://newbreedaquatics.com.au/shrimp-accessories/shrimp-feeding-trays/ebi-line-feeding-tube-tray-40cm-.html

 - MK Breed Life Ball -> http://www.aquaristiconline.com.au/p/8924631/mk-breed-life-ball.html, is this necessary? It says the the purpose to absorb ammonia and keep pH but I thought when the pH is below 7 ammonia doesn't exist and the substrate is buffering the water to keep the pH stable yet I see quite a few shrimp keepers use them.

 - Plants, what plant should I get? I would like something that is low maintenance, low or medium light requirement, no need ferts or CO2, looks pretty and good/beneficial for shrimps - priority is to make sure babies survive until adulthood. How much money should I set aside for this?

 

Now setting up the tank,

I noticed that some people put products such as Benibachi BeeMax (http://www.aquaristiconline.com.au/p/8660609/benibachi-beemax-30g-.html) or others (any recommendation?) in between the subtrate, is this necessary? Is this then becomes the seed for cycling the tank which means I don't have to add products such as Seachem Stability (http://www.aquaristiconline.com.au/p/5777321/seachem-stability-250ml.html)? Btw, what will happen if I do/add them both? Has anyone use Stability to cycle their shrimp tank? Does it work? I read mix reviews on this product although the majority says that it's an OK product if used according to the instructions.

 

The cycling steps would be, do the substrate setup, put the plants, fill it up with dechlorinated tap water (I can't afford RO filters) and wait? The substrate will leech ammonia and I need to wait for the bacteria to kick in? How about using products such as Seachem Stability?

 

Thanks heaps guys :)

 

[kizshrimp]

The Cal Aqua substrate looks great, you don't need the fine one. Regular is fine enough. The Benibachi soil is the most popular choice for good reason. 

I don't use the Z series lights but plenty on here do and they all say great things. Search the forum for "up aqua z series" if you want to read some glowing reviews. (anyone like that?)

 

I don't like hang on filters. Some people use them but I don't know of anyone who would swear by one. If you have to use one the Aquaclears are the best, or they were once anyway. You could easily use a small canister like an eheim 2213 on that tank. More media is always better and your options are really limited with a hang on. In fact there was a recent thread about setting up the media in a 2213 filter. 

 

A feeding tray is a good idea. The balls well, thats a matter of opinion. I recently added some Boss Aquaria balls to my tanks but they ran fine without them too. I think the Boss balls are the best value if you want some. There's a thread on the forum here about the MK balls - I think they're very small and possibly a different thing. 

 

Plants could cost you more than the rest of the equipment! It depends what you want. I think a moss and a floating plant are a good combo. You could start with good old Java Moss (spawning moss) which shouldn't cost you more than about $5. That could be all you need. Or you could spend rather more on different types of moss. Fissidens is beautiful but not fast growing. Peacock moss is faster and so cheaper. I've always liked water sprite as a floating plant. These days frogbits are popular too. Sometimes people on here give frogbit away for free. Small Anubias varieties like nana petite, Java ferns and most Cryptocoryne are also good low light, low maintenance plants. Bucephalandra are awesome but better start saving up if you want them. 

 

Dechlorinated tapwater will probably lead to issues eventually. Rainwater is acceptable. I use both (and no RO) but all my water goes through a carbon filter before it gets to the tanks. Better wait for someone else to answer re the cycling aids because generally I don't like them. They don't add proper nitrifiers (nitrosomonas, nitrobacter) but other bacteria (Bacillus strains) that need constant replenishment. I do have Mosura BT9 here and add it occasionally for immune stimulant reasons rather than cycling. 

 

Hope that helps. 

[JGreen]

The Cal Aqua substrate looks great, you don't need the fine one. Regular is fine enough. The Benibachi soil is the most popular choice for good reason. 

I don't use the Z series lights but plenty on here do and they all say great things. Search the forum for "up aqua z series" if you want to read some glowing reviews. (anyone like that?)

 

I don't like hang on filters. Some people use them but I don't know of anyone who would swear by one. If you have to use one the Aquaclears are the best, or they were once anyway. You could easily use a small canister like an eheim 2213 on that tank. More media is always better and your options are really limited with a hang on. In fact there was a recent thread about setting up the media in a 2213 filter. 

 

A feeding tray is a good idea. The balls well, thats a matter of opinion. I recently added some Boss Aquaria balls to my tanks but they ran fine without them too. I think the Boss balls are the best value if you want some. There's a thread on the forum here about the MK balls - I think they're very small and possibly a different thing. 

 

Plants could cost you more than the rest of the equipment! It depends what you want. I think a moss and a floating plant are a good combo. You could start with good old Java Moss (spawning moss) which shouldn't cost you more than about $5. That could be all you need. Or you could spend rather more on different types of moss. Fissidens is beautiful but not fast growing. Peacock moss is faster and so cheaper. I've always liked water sprite as a floating plant. These days frogbits are popular too. Sometimes people on here give frogbit away for free. Small Anubias varieties like nana petite, Java ferns and most Cryptocoryne are also good low light, low maintenance plants. Bucephalandra are awesome but better start saving up if you want them. 

 

Dechlorinated tapwater will probably lead to issues eventually. Rainwater is acceptable. I use both (and no RO) but all my water goes through a carbon filter before it gets to the tanks. Better wait for someone else to answer re the cycling aids because generally I don't like them. They don't add proper nitrifiers (nitrosomonas, nitrobacter) but other bacteria (Bacillus strains) that need constant replenishment. I do have Mosura BT9 here and add it occasionally for immune stimulant reasons rather than cycling. 

 

Hope that helps. 

 

Wow, thanks so much for the detailed reply - very much appreciate it :) :) :)

It's funny how you say dechlorinated tap water will lead to issues, that's probably what's happening with my red cherry tank at the moment. I don't have deaths but the tank is not thriving, What sort of long term issues will I encounter with tap water? Evaporation? What's poor man's alternative to RO water then? Getting RO from LFS everytime I need to change water is going to send me broke, as well as an RO unit - how much is the cheapest one anyway? How about water filters like one of those Brita, etc, are they a better alternative?

The reason why I use hang on filters is because I don't have space for a canister.

So Cal Aqua BE is perfectly fine for keeping shrimp? I heard that Benibachi's substrate doesn't last very long, 6 -12 months?

Thanks.

[Disciple]

G'day Jgreen,

 

Welcome to the forums. I hope you will enjoy yourself and learn from here as much as I do.

 

First thing I will do is direct you to www.Shrimpydaddy.com he has an extremely detailed and very good step by step article on how to set up and cycle a tank. It is a very good read and he also sells a whole lot of products that from the reviews i have read are very good. Also there are a lot of good tank journals on the forum that has helped me. In my opinion we have some of the best shrimp keepers in Australia that have done journals just steal their ideas haha.

 

As Kizshrimp has pointed out if chlorinated tapwater is not the best option if you plan of trying CRS or CBS (but I have heard of some shrimp keepers doing well using it). I learned this myself because when I first started and got some crs I was using tapwater. I was able to keep them alive but other then that they didnt not get berried or thrive. Once I join SKF I learned about GH, KH, TDS so I started testing these water parameters and found my tap water was way off what they needed. So if you can afford it I would recommend an RO unit, if not get a hold of rainwater. This way you can remineralise the water so it is perfect for the CRS/CBS. In my experience it made a huge difference within a couple of weeks of using RO water the females started to get berried. There are a lot of products that you can use to remineralise but it seems Salty Shrimp is the most used for our members. There is also DIY recipe JAYC put up for a remineralising liquid.

 

I have no experience using Cal aqua Black earth so i cant comment on it. I have heard it is good when a couple of other members have mentioned it. I myself have been using ADA amazonia in my two tanks. It was recommended to me and I have had no issues with it but I have only been using it for 9 months. A lot of other members swear by Benebachi Soil. The guys that have recommended it are long term members that breed amazing shrimp. So I guess the proof is there that its good. There are a lot of forum sponsors that stock the soil and sell it at very competitive prices.

 

I use a 60cm Up Aqua Pro on my 2 footer and I am planning on getting one for my 4 footer. I have had no issues with this light and my dwarf hair grass and mosses grow at a crazy rate. I actually had 2 60cm ones on my 2 footer because I was growing HC and some other high light plants but I dont think the shrimp like it too bright so i stopped using one.

 

One thing I have read in this forum over and over again is over filtration is it best thing you can do. I would also recommend that you consider using a cannister filter as well as you HOF. lol In my 2 footer I am using a 2215. In my 4footer I am currently using 2 2215 and i tossing up for a third LOL what can i say I love my shirmp. But if fund do not permit then maybe think about adding a couple of sponge filters.

 

I also use MK BREED balls and compared to the Boss Aquaria balls they are bigger. I have actually just bought myself a couple of packets of Boss aquaria balls to replace the MK Breed balls as they only last about 6 month so they needed replacing and for a cheaper price I could get the Boss Aquaria balls that last 2 years so why not. I am pretty sure they are the same as Benebachi Balls too. I think Squiggles has a post showing an experiement he did of two tanks cycling. One had the boss aquaria balls and one didnt and there was a huge difference.

 

Plants I really think use some moss's. I have Christmas Moss and US fissen, I think they look great and the shrimp love it too. Java moss it good and they only need low to medium light. Not sure how much you need in $ but I brought some Christmas Moss at LFS for $25 and I got a bit of US fissen (dont think I spelt it right) what I bought some shrimp. I have just let it grow trimmed it and tied the trimming to other things now I got heaps.

 

I also have a journal Showing how I am setting up my new 4 foot tank which you can have a look at but I am still quite new and learning lol. So shrimpydaddy.com as i said before. Look up Squiggles, Dean's or Bluebolts set up in the tank journals.

 

Anyways I hope that sort of help and explains some of your questions.

[JGreen]

Thanks heap for the very informative reply Discipline. Is there a poor man's solution to the RO water? If not, what's the cheapest one that I can get. Is buying a second hand RO system recommend? If RO system is a must then I have to delay setting up this tank until I have the fund and the permission from the big boss - this is the hardest part LOL :p

[kizshrimp]

No worries, happy I could help. 

 

There's plenty of potential problems with tapwater. As you correctly guessed, regardless of how soft it is (unless 0), over time replacing evaporative loss the hardness will climb. There's also high potential for unacceptable copper or other levels, some not testable.  Don't even consider tapwater unless the GH is virtually 0 in your area. 

 

The poor man's alternative to RO is rainwater. A brita filter should be ok, essentially I'm using the same - a poly prefilter followed by a carbon core in 2 standard 10" housings. I use a big pond pump to force the rainwater through the filters or run tapwater through them at mains pressure. Beware that some carbon filters really spike the pH which means you then have to store that water long enough to bring it back down before use. A cheap RO unit is about $100, not much more than my setup and a much better idea. Squiggle has posted a link to a good RO unit supplier a couple of times. Sorry I don't have that link handy. 

When I first kept CRS they were kept in a 3' tank with laterite substrate under normal gravel, lots of plants and an air-driven sponge, tap water changes. No problems. That population exploded quickly but also crashed again when I began to neglect the fishroom due to personal issues. Nonetheless I had CRS in such conditions for about 4 years. So it can be done simply but I don't recommend it. These days we can do much better. 

 

As Disciple says, over-filtration is good. If a canister is truly out of the question then definitely add an air-driven sponge or 2. The shrimp love to graze them anyway. You'll need a sponge on the HOB intake too. When you read through Squggle's journal as recommended above, you'll not the spare changeover sponges in the tanks. Good idea and more passive filtration area. The substrate itself will help too. You could buy some low density marine pure - the rocks, cubes or rubble and have some just sitting in the tank. That will help a lot. Check out our sponsor The Tech Den for these. They're a great supplier. 

 

The Benibachi substrate is reported to last around 2 years which seems as good as it gets from these active substrates. They lose their buffering ability over time and eventually start to break down to powder. I think the Cal Aqua might physically hold up longer but that remains to be seen. My advice is not to rely on their buffering ability and control the water parameters yourself. The Cal Aqua is designed for plant growth but works well for shrimp. The Benibachi is designed for shrimp and as I said before, is the choice of our best breeders. 

 

Read through the journals that Disciple recommended, check out ShrimpyDaddy and see how you go. We're all here if you have more questions after that. 

[JGreen]

...

The Benibachi substrate is reported to last around 2 years which seems as good as it gets from these active substrates. They lose their buffering ability over time and eventually start to break down to powder. I think the Cal Aqua might physically hold up longer but that remains to be seen. My advice is not to rely on their buffering ability and control the water parameters yourself. The Cal Aqua is designed for plant growth but works well for shrimp. The Benibachi is designed for shrimp and as I said before, is the choice of our best breeders. 

...

 

Thanks Kizshrimp, I'll read the recommended materials. If I were to go with Benibachi, do I need the but the fine version to spread on top? I like to have solid top so no food no slip through to the bottom and cause issues.

[JGreen]

Btw, since Brita fiters are essentially activated carbon filter. Can I use activated carbon as alternative? It's not ideal, but is it doable?

Edited March 26, 2015 by JGreen

[Disciple]

For the substrate it is fine to just use the normal sized substrate.

 

I was told two reasons ppl use the powder substrate is:

1. just because it looks nicer.
2. that shrimplets are small enough to swim into the gaps of the grains and sometimes they will get stuck.

As for the RO water if you can not get a unit then I would do as Kizshrimp has suggested. Eventually try to get one if you plan to try out TB's in the future.

[jayc]

For the substrate it is fine to just use the normal sized substrate.

 

I was told two reasons ppl use the powder substrate is:

1. just because it looks nicer.
2. that shrimplets are small enough to swim into the gaps of the grains and sometimes they will get stuck.

As for the RO water if you can not get a unit then I would do as Kizshrimp has suggested. Eventually try to get one if you plan to try out TB's in the future.

 

use powder substrate also to:

3. To anchor the roots of very small plants with fine root system like hemianthus callitrichoides (HC) or Glossostigma or Riccia.

 

 

 

 Squiggle has posted a link to a good RO unit supplier a couple of times. Sorry I don't have that link handy. 

 

That would be Filter Systems Australia (FSA).

http://www.filtersystemsaustralia.com/

 

Tell them Shrimp Keepers Forum sent you to see what RO options they have for your budget.

[ineke]

I have a small portable RO system from  the supplier Squiggle mentioned. It wasn't very expensive and I have been using it for several years now- just changing the cartridges as per manufacturers recommendations. I make about 200 litres of  water a week just for water changes and topups.Before I had the RO unit I used water from my puratap- here in Adelaide our water is hard and has a high ph -I did have success with CRS but can really see the difference in the breeding and colours since using the RO. I use Benibachi soil and the buffering lasts a lot longer if you use RO water so in the long run it saves you money.

[jayc]

Oh, before you rush out an buy lots of Brita water filters, I must warn you that these water filters for human consumption will have an Alkalizer portion in it. That means, as it filters, it raises the pH to make the water alkaline.

Because to drink filtered water that is acidic, will ruin your teeth. So most, if not all, water filters designed for human drinking water will make it more alkaline. <- which is the opposite to what you want for fish/shrimp keeping.

 

FSA can design you an RO filter specifically for aquariums, which does not need the alkalizer cartridge, thereby making it slightly cheaper.

Just don't drink it !!  

[Disciple]

use powder substrate also to:

3. To anchor the roots of very small plants with fine root system like hemianthus callitrichoides (HC) or Glossostigma or Riccia.

 

 

That would be Filter Systems Australia (FSA).

http://www.filtersystemsaustralia.com/

 

Tell them Shrimp Keepers Forum sent you to see what RO options they have for your budget.

Thanks for the back up Jayc.

 

I totally forgot the 3rd point and it was only a couple a weeks ago when I asked Jayc about it lol.

 

Yeah Give FSA a call that is where I got my portable unit and they are extremely helpful.

[kizshrimp]

There you go JGreen, all the answers you need. Thanks guys! 

 

 

 

Btw, since Brita fiters are essentially activated carbon filter. Can I use activated carbon as alternative? It's not ideal, but is it doable?

 

Well you probably could, but you'd have to store the water and carbon filter it for at least a few days before it went into the tank. And remember that activated carbon will raise the pH, even without the alkaliser unit JayC mentioned. Generally, the cheaper the carbon the worse the pH rise. You'll have to deal with that issue too.  

I have to recommend you go with the RO option, if not immediately then ASAP. Yes there are ways around it as I've suggested, but they're not ideal and require some effort and thought. As Ineke has pointed out, she had some success using tapwater too but everything is better now with RO. You'll go through plenty of money on brita filters or AC trying to do it "cheap". 

[JGreen]

Thanks a lot guys - very helpful, much appreciated :)

 

I was browsing ebay and found this, only for $94! However I don't know the quality of the item or the reputation of the seller.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Reverse-Osmosis-Aquarium-Tanks-Water-Filters-Fish-Tank-DI-Resin-Filter-DIVERT-/120802434648?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1c2062de58

 

I will give FSA a call and have a chat :)

 

Cheers..

JG

[jayc]

That's cheap!!

Includes free shipping as well.

[JGreen]

That's cheap!!

Includes free shipping as well.

 

LOL - I thought too :P but does it look right to you?

[jayc]

I don't see anything wrong with it.

Only way to know is to test it out and measure TDS.

[Shrimp Aqua]

Gday JGreen, Have a  look at their 4stage RO/DI system for $139.75 including free postage,  i have one of these, been running for over 12mths now, very happy with performance of their products. The quality of their product seems to be equal to most others on the market, it is important to service the unit when required, I have only changed the sediment and carbon cartridge in the time i have had it and it still gives me water PM's i need for crystals', water temp is also very important, must be kept at a stable temp, recommend 23deg.