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Zorba

Stones

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Zorba

Hi all

 

What types are stones are suitable for shrimp tanks? I know that a stone can be tested with vinegar and if it fizzes then it should not be used? Is that fact or fiction?

 

I have heard using several seiryu stones increases the TDS?

 

Thanks

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northboy

Its True about the vinegar, don't know what the seiryu stones are but if they are going to raise the TDS it should react to vinegar to. There are chem experts here that might know what those stones are

 

The use of stones that react depends on you starting water to, I have water that tests 0 on TDS, KH and GH so I use coral in my tanks to add some thing to buffer the water. In Brisbane your water has plenty in it.

 

Bob

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Jenbenwren

Hi Zorba.

I've been having a hard time finding stones or rocks for my shrimp tanks as well. I've been doing a lot of reading about them on Google and have come up with a list of rocks that are classed as 'inert and won't affect your water parameters'. But I've had quite experienced shrimp keepers on Facebook tell me that no stone or rock is safe for shrimp even if they are inert. So it can get pretty frustrating.

It's true that if you drip vinegar on the stones and it fizzes then they aren't safe to use. But the vinegar test doesn't always work. I use the Hydrochloric Acid that we add to our pool to test them now as it will fizz on rocks that vinegar won't.

Seiryu Stone will raise your ph, but I'm not sure about TDS.

You could run some tests on the rocks or stones you want to use. I wish I had done that instead of believing the lfs that said they were shrimp safe and not finding out they raised tds until a few months after the tank was running and stocked. If the stone you'd like to use passes the fizz test, the next test you could try is to see if the stone affects water parameters.

You'll need a container larger enough to put the stone in and cover it with water.

Fill the container with water (preferably RO water) and test the ph, gh, kH, and tds before you add the stone. Make a note of the test results and when you did the tests, then put the stone in the container of water. Cover it with glad wrap or something to stop anything like leaves, dirt or bugs that'll drown in it getting into the water and possibly affecting the test results.

Every few days for the next few weeks test the water in the container and compare the results with your first lot of tests. After a few weeks you'll know if the stone affects you water parameters.

Some stones will stop leaching out whatever is causing the changes to your wps after a short or long while. So if you make a note of all your test results and when you did the tests, you might see the stone stops changing the water parameters and then it might be safe to use in your tank. I'm a bit fussy and a worrier, so I'd start the test again with fresh water just to make sure lol.

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jayc

I know Slate is inert for sure. A compressed and hardened clay.

 

Lava Rock or Unzan rock as Takashi Amano calls it is also an igneous inert rock.

Depending on where they were collected, the colour varies from dark brown/black to a red colour.

 

Ohko dragonstone, I have heard, is hardened clay - so this will be ok as well and will not raise water parameters (but I haven't got one to test). 

 

Seiryu as mentioned isn't suitable and will change water parameters. But I'm not convinced all seiryu are equal.

The real seiryu is a Metamorphic Rock from Japan. With their high demand around the world for aquascaping, they are now illegal to export from Japan.

If they are not exporting it anymore, then what are the stones labelled seiryu really? Most of the Seiryu stones being sold outside of Japan are typically Ryouh Stones and are just commonly misidentified. 

However, even real Seiryu stones will definitely raise your pH and gH depending on how many per litre you have added into your tank.

 

Ryouh stone looks very similar to Seiryu.

A lot come from China, some from Japan. But many countries have rocks that can be considered to be ryouh, but obviously they call it a different name. Ryuoh Stones are limestones and they are a metamorphic type of rock, so they will raise your pH over time. Limestones are full of calcium and will leech into the water overtime raising TDS, GH, KH  and pH.

 

Yingshi, I believe this is the same type of rock as Ryouh, but from China.

So same explanation as above.

 

Manten Stones are an igneous rock that are created from the magma of a volcano. The name was introduced by Takashi Amano.

Just because Takashi san named it doesn't mean that this type of Igneous rock isn't found elsewhere in the world. If you live near a mountain that is considered a dormant volcano, it could be your best bet in getting some free Manten Stones for your aquascape. Unfortunately, they don't occur naturally in Oz. The problem is Manten type rocks do get misclassified all the time. So my advice is to test it anyway if you think you have manten rocks. Soak them in a bucket of water, test the parameters. Then test them again after a week. 

A real Manten rock, being volcanic in origin, will not raise your water parameters.

 

Then there is a similar stone to Manten called Yamaya that is used in aquascaping a lot. For filler or for borders. They are generally small pieces, so they don't get used as a main feature. Aquascapers use this rock to fill gaps in driftwood, or to prop other rocks up, or as borders to larger rocks to draw attention to those feature rocks.

Again this is an Igneous, volcanic rock, that will not change water parameters.

 

Then there is Petrified Wood which is typically an inert igneous rock. But depending on where it has come from and what rocks it was petrified in, they can raise pH. So again best to test this one just to be sure.

 

I've come to a personal conclusion that it's too difficult building an Iwagumi style tank for shrimps.

The constant battle with water parameters goes against the stability concept for shrimps.

Simple low demand plants and substrate is so much simpler. But that's just me, I have too many tanks to fuss over and I'm lazy.

Edited by jayc
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Zorba

Yes, oops sorry it does raise PH not TDS

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inverted

What a great explanation jay c ....very good

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jayc

What a great explanation jay c ....very good

 

 

Thanks mate.

 

I believe in taking the time to give people the full explanation. 

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Zorba

Yes, Thanks Jay for taking the time and sharing your experience

 

It really does help us beginners

 

Thanks

 

Andy

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Tankeyone

Very interesting JayC, I don't want to highjack the thread or anything but you've got me thinking about 'Coffee Rock' like we find in the Brisbane north area. 
My old man says he's been using it in fish tanks since before the dinosaurs, that it's inert and there's basically an entire reef of the stuff off Redcliffe/Scarborough from which pieces come up occasionally.
It's a rich red/brown 'coffee' colour with large holes and tunnels etc, which would seem to indicate some sort of volcanic relationship?

I've got one sizeable piece (bout 2/3rds size of a soccer ball) currently in a tank, no noticeable long term effects there-in but if you don't know anything about it I might pull it out, give it a test and report back!

Edited by Tankeyone

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jayc

Lol, I don't know much about coffee rocks. ive heard of it.

Dont know how it impacts water parameters.

its not volcanic. Rather, its indurated rock.

Which means it is hardened by heat or compacting sediments.

Its made of riverbed sand, and it gets its colour from the humus that collected on the riverbed plus iron oxides.

If you test it, report back please.

if you have an iron test kit, it would be interesting to see if it leeches iron. Probably not, but still a good test.

Edited by jayc

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Tankeyone

Ah, ok that's interesting! I'll test it and let you know what happens.

I don't have an iron test kit unfortunately and not in a position to purchase one.

I'll do pH, gh, kh and tds before and afters. Maybe even use rain water and repeat test with tap water and see if results vary?

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jayc

I'll do pH, gh, kh and tds before and afters. Maybe even use rain water and repeat test with tap water and see if results vary?

 

Sounds good.

Don't forget a Vinegar test.

Vinegar is really too weak. Better if you have Muriatic acid or even Hydrochloric Acid (also referred to as HCL) used lowering ph in swimming pools.

But Vinegar will have to do if you don't have those.

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wot_fan

Then there is Petrified Wood which is typically an inert igneous rock. But depending on where it has come from and what rocks it was petrified in, they can raise pH. So again best to test this one just to be sure.

I would like to use some petrified wood in my next shrimp tank.  The problem is I won't be able to test it before I purchase.  Is there any type of petrified wood that is known to be shrimp safe?

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northboy

I think the point of shrimp types being kept has been missed  by the face book experts and other info.

 

Crystal types are so inbreed in one type of water that lots will effect them, where as cherry types and natives are more forgiving, The point to the story I am going to get a canning for is.

 

If you are keeping Cherry types or natives it wont make that much difference, if it dose not react to the vinegar test. If you are keeping Crystal types be careful and see what others in your area are  doing, YOUR AREA as all water is different. 

 

Also what sort of water are you starting with and that is the other over looked point!!! when I did keep Crystal types 6 years ago heat got them after 2 years. I had Coral in the tank, small amounts but my water is like rain water. When I get a controlled room done one day I will keep Crystal types again so heat wont get em.

 

The whole point to the story is, every one is to fussy about exact water and this is making them more reliant on that exact water type and the much over looked out come is, a geneticly weaker animal. 

 

MY point of view and not a fact, but food for thought

 

Bob

Edited by northboy
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newbreed

Have to agree with Bob on that, we definitely go out of our way not to shock our shrimps.

I am overly cautious with mine but mainly as it has taken so long to get comfortable keeping them, last thing I know want to do is kill them off by adding any unknowns to the mix. That being said, natural environments are full of unknown and random changes and the shrimp survive and thrive.

I have had one tank in which I housed some random culls. I did not treat this tank delicately or diligently. Water changes were not my usual drip feeding. Moving of substrate, changes to filtering constantly. Guess what, possibly the healthiest of the lot. These were mischling, tb and crystals.

I prefer caution myself but in the end it's about keeping them happy and healthy. There are many roads to that goal and we all do it differently..

And also, this thread is a great read on rock types, thanks again JayC!!

Edited by newbreed

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jayc

I would like to use some petrified wood in my next shrimp tank. The problem is I won't be able to test it before I purchase. Is there any type of petrified wood that is known to be shrimp safe?

No, sorry. The variety is too great to know which source of the petrified wood is safe. It means someone would have to test each sample.

Edited by jayc
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northboy

Jayc  is there pet wood with calcium in it??, I have not seen any up this way but that means zip.

 

I know some of the marine fossils I have are calcium based, it opens a whole can of worms on what is good and what is not, still back to the water you start with.

 

Bob

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Proto

I also agree with Bob on that, I have natives (caridina wilkinsi) in ph 7.8, fairly hard water and breeding fairly prolifically, they apparently come very soft water (outdoor pond, rainwater) and over 10 years removed from wild population, had no issue transitioning that I noticed.  So unless you're doing crystal shrimp (or just shrimp that cost an arm and a leg) I don't know if you need to be so concerned. 

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