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GotCrabs

Goldfish Pond

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GotCrabs

Did a major water change on Mum's Goldfish Pond in the backyard earlier because the water had suddenly turned almost black, can't work out why, I'm thinking it had to do with the Water lily in there though, so took all the water out, all the stones on the bottom, cleaned it all and put everything back in, then went out 10 minutes ago to have a look and all fish were dead... flap sake!

 

Not impressed, had these fellas for a bit over a year and were a real nice size too, Mum is a bit pissed off.

 

Only thing I can put it down to was the water temp, when I was refilling I noticed the water was quite warm as it's quite hot here but thought it'd cool down in no time seeing the pond is in the shade, that's the only thing I can think of.

 

Not happy.

 

Guess I'll suss out some more Goldfish tomorrow...

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kizshrimp

That's a shame mate. Obviously goldfish are tough creatures and they can usually stand going from their pond into straight tapwater. That's not my practice but is common among others in the pond/aquarium service industry. But, here in Melbourne we have pretty good tapwater most of the time and I understand that over there in Adelaide you do not. 

If I can smell chlorine in the tapwater I preferably don't use it that day, or at least take extra precautions. Whatever the water source I'd make sure there's not a huge pH difference to what they've been in. All that said it was probably heat. If the water feels warm to a human then it's over 37 degrees. 

 

Can't comment on the black water without having seen it. 

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GotCrabs

I'm in the country mate so the water is completely different to Adelaide, thank God!

 

Yeah the water felt warm but I thought they'd be alright.

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revolutionhope

Aren't you in port augusta? pretty sure yorkes and eyre pen would get their water from near the arse end of thr Murray too?

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GotCrabs

You're right actually, but water tastes and even smells different to water in Adelaide, I don't drink city water, but drink water straight from the tap here.

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Squiggle

Test the WP of the pond & then test the WP of the tap water, might find some answers there.

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GotCrabs

Just tested the Ph levels... so fucked off at myself right now, pretty disappointed, Ph level was over 7.5... blue as blue...

 

So it's my fault I've killed another lot of fish...

 

Then test my Mr Aqua tank and it was 6.4, all good...

 

Then tested my what was going to be a CRS tank and that was 7.5 also, so pissed at myself, so have taken the low quality shrimp out of there and put them back in the Mr Aqua tank.

 

Pretty pissed right now...

 

Going to empty the fish pond again... so what do I do?

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GotCrabs

I'm gonna go grab a Jacks can I think...

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revolutionhope

+1 re drink

but beer for me! :-)

ph 7.5 shouldnt bother goldfish but if they had to deal with a sudden shift in pH then that will hurt for sure I reckon!

agree re adelaide water it's so poor I feel ashamed to take a dump in it :-p

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GotCrabs

No wonder I don't wanna drink it...

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GotCrabs

Filled the pond with rainwater, tested the water and Ph is 6.0 so will let it sit over night, test again and see what happens, might get 1 fish...

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inverted

I think maybe too much too quick....l did you know cherry shrimp get massive in an outside pond?

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GotCrabs

Really? How come?

 

I can't understand the deaths though, we used the same water to fill the pond in the first place, the same water to top the pond up, but when I changed the water yesterday and again today it was different.

 

So yeah, gone with rainwater.

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GotCrabs

I can't understand how I can have 3 CRS in the tank with ph of over 7.5 and they have been OK for the last 3 weeks but I put in goldfish today and within an hour they are dead in the pond with the same ph level.

 

Also, how do I lower the ph in the CRS tank I have going? Water changes? Empty the tank and put all rainwater in and then mineral powder?

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revolutionhope

IAL andor driftwood maybe a good way to gradually lower ph if u have any? maybe the fish had a sudden ph change as u completely emptied the pond and refilled it without testing parameters are similar? or maybe it was mainly the heat that wiped em out :-(

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GotCrabs

Just tested the ph again and same again, all is well since I filled with rainwater.

 

Might do a water change in the new tank I have going that has the ph level over 7, put rainwater in and then add mineral powder, already has mineral balls in there, should that be alright?

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kizshrimp

I know cherries do well outside, they're certainly fine below 10 degrees C. They probably get bigger because of space, food and water quality. 

 

I'd be inclined to suggest peat or barley straw if you wanted to drop the pH in a pond, it would take bags of IAL. I agree with revolution, 7.5 won't hurt a carp, but a big shock could. I think the heat probably got them just on how quick it went wrong. To kill a goldfish in 10 mins the water would have to be near deadly to human life. 

Crabs, your tapwater can change from day to day especially if there's been works nearby. Dry weather, recent rain, increased or decreased local water consumption can all affect the quality. Remember that pH is generally a good indicator but there's more going on. Also remember that carp do well in pretty hard water, and there's no problem mixing tap and rain water. 

Never kept CRS above pH 7.0 but it's been done plenty. Some brave individuals have had Taiwan Bees in alkaline too. 

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GotCrabs

I know cherries do well outside, they're certainly fine below 10 degrees C. They probably get bigger because of space, food and water quality. 

 

I'd be inclined to suggest peat or barley straw if you wanted to drop the pH in a pond, it would take bags of IAL. I agree with revolution, 7.5 won't hurt a carp, but a big shock could. I think the heat probably got them just on how quick it went wrong. To kill a goldfish in 10 mins the water would have to be near deadly to human life. 

Crabs, your tapwater can change from day to day especially if there's been works nearby. Dry weather, recent rain, increased or decreased local water consumption can all affect the quality. Remember that pH is generally a good indicator but there's more going on. Also remember that carp do well in pretty hard water, and there's no problem mixing tap and rain water. 

Never kept CRS above pH 7.0 but it's been done plenty. Some brave individuals have had Taiwan Bees in alkaline too. 

 

For the last 3 weeks I've kept 3 CRS in the new tank I have going, I just put them in there from my Mr Aqua tank to see how they went, I should have tested the water instead, but they have been fine, no deaths at all, all feed well, plenty of activity, but when I tested the fish pond's pH and found it to be over 7.0 I tested the new tank and it was also over 7.0 so pulled the CRS out straight away and put them back in the Mr Aqua, they seem fine.

 

So proof that a CRS can survive in higher pH levels I guess.

 

Think I'll empty the new tank and replace with rainwater and add some mineral powder in there, I have mineral balls in already.

 

I'm thinking perhaps Ammonia in the fish pond? Didn't check for that, it's possible right? Could have been the Ammonia in the water?

 

Think I might wrap a piece of driftwood with some Subwassertang and place it in the pond, see how it goes, reacts, grows, I assume that goldfish would munch on it thought right? They did with the water lily I had in there.

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GotCrabs

Read earlier that goldfish prefer pH levels of around 7.0 so can't be the pH then, again I'm thinking Ammonia.

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GotCrabs

Oh and the water temp when I was putting it in was warm, not like hot or uncomfortable, just seemed warm, didn't think it would effect them though.

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revolutionhope

I was suggesting the ial and driftwood for dropping the pH in the tank not the pond kiz :-) that would need a lot of ial im sure

adding peatmoss to the filter is another trick I know that works lower the ph in an aquarium. I did this before and used brunnings brand which is sold in mitre10 etc, garden shops and the like.

I wouldn't know the first thing about crs and couldn't say if all of those methods are good or not. I have never kept any shrimps other than neocaridina but I just know that pH should be changed gradually. i think its best to give the fish/shrimp days or even weeks to adjust a full point of pH.

i dont understand it well but i know pH is some crazy logarithmic measurement like the richter scale i think?? someone pls correct/explain for mea :-)

anyway a change from alkaline to acid or vice versa should be gradually done so the creatures can adjust. (something to do with mineral uptake from the water ?)

id love to learn more about this water chemistry stuff!

may your goldfish RIP crabs but let their deaths not be in vain! :-)

love n peace

will

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GotCrabs

Tested all tanks this morning for Ammonia and found none at all... just stumped to as what has happened...

 

So the fish pond had a pH of 7.5 and no Ammonia, what has happened? I'm not convinced it was the warm water.

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kizshrimp

Sorry Will obviously misunderstood your IAL comment. You can get peat granules for ponds and aquariums, very neat and tidy in a media bag compared to fines. I'm using a big bag of JBL peat but I don't know if you can still get it. Sera had it in a box and so do Eheim. Because they're all German brands you'll find it listed as "Torf". 

 

You're right Will, pH is a log scale. Negative log of hydrogen ion concentration. Wish I had good chemistry knowledge too, my biggest let down in aquarium keeping other than general laziness. 

 

Crabs, yeah normally if your pH stays above 6 the biofilter is fairly efficient and you'll not find an ammonia problem. If pH drops below 6 ammonia is likely but not really toxic. Raising the pH back above 6 to get the biofilters working well again is the tricky part, as you force the ammonia back to toxicity and potentially kill off the livestock. 

I can't say what happened without having seen it. Would love to know what was up with the black water but honestly, 10 mins is very fast for a fish die-off. If it was a chemical parameter of the water the provider will be in big, big trouble because something was very substandard. 

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GotCrabs

Went and got 2 goldfish earlier, they gave them to me for nothing too when I said what had happened.

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Garnelchen

There is a lot more to the quality of water than just the pH.

Lots of other parameters are to be considered depending on what type of creatures are kept. ;)

Of course CRS can be KEPT in a pH over 7 but whether they will live for very long or even breed is a different story.

As others already have said, goldfish are very hardy and I doubt that a change in ph would kill them.

They are however not very fond of high temperatures and my guess is also that that (plus the shock due to the sudden change)is what killed them.

It's also not surprising that you didn't find any ammonia in a freshly filled pond. Ammonia is produced by the excrements of fish and other living things as well as by rotting organic material in the pond. It should definitely not be found in tap water.

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