Is there a compatibility chart for Australian Natives?

[Jenbenwren]

I'm just wondering if there's a compatibility chart anywhere for our Australian Natives?

I only have Chameleons at the moment, but once I remove all the Red Cherrys that share their tank I'd like to add a few more native shrimp to the 80cm. My first thought was to add some Blackmore River shrimp, but with them both being of the Caridina genius is there a chance they'll cross breed?

What would be the best natives, that won't cross breed, to keep with my chameleons?

[Proto]

I'm not sure there'll be a definitive answer on this. In theory it should be possible, but in practice it doesn't appear to happen but doesn't mean it can't happen.  

 

Either way if you're 100% against crossing it's safer to not even allow the chance.

 

Could probably do riffle and glass shrimp (although consider Paratya australiensis may down the line turn out to be several closely related species so if you're against crossing you may want to stick with them from a single source)  with no chance of crossing.

[fishmosy]

You could also pick two species of Caridina which have vastly different breeding styles or body sizes. For example, I'm keeping a couple of typus in with my chameleons. The typus dont have direct developing larvae and get much larger than the chameleons. there are heaps of these types of combinations which would minise the chances of hybrids. E.g. Longirostris and chameleons, gracilirostris and chameleons, ect ect.

The greatest chance for hybrids would be with shrimp that are very close in size and shape. For example, chameleons and Barney Springs shrimp are close in size and shape, and both produce direct developing offspring.

[Proto]

You could also pick two species of Caridina which have vastly different breeding styles or body sizes. For example, I'm keeping a couple of typus in with my chameleons. The typus dont have direct developing larvae and get much larger than the chameleons. there are heaps of these types of combinations which would minise the chances of hybrids. E.g. Longirostris and chameleons, gracilirostris and chameleons, ect ect.

 

While likely true, I still wouldn't be surprised if you stuck a bunch of female chameleons and male longirostris (so no male chameleons or female longirostris) there's a possibility viable direct developed young could happen if the genetic lottery falls just so (I imagine a lot of failed pregnancies)....granted that's creating a situation where it's chances to happen are at it's highest.

 

It's likely a situation where if there's both sexes of both populations around nothing will happen but I'd not be confident to say it's impossible either.

[Jenbenwren]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and knowledge guys, I really appreciate it and it's helped a lot. :-)

[fishmosy]

While likely true, I still wouldn't be surprised if you stuck a bunch of female chameleons and male longirostris (so no male chameleons or female longirostris) there's a possibility viable direct developed young could happen if the genetic lottery falls just so (I imagine a lot of failed pregnancies)....granted that's creating a situation where it's chances to happen are at it's highest.

 

It's likely a situation where if there's both sexes of both populations around nothing will happen but I'd not be confident to say it's impossible either.

You are right, crosses between most Caridina are unlikely but not impossible. The aquarium is the ideal place for it to happen, lots of shrimp in a small place.

I disagree about the longirostris and the chameons because longirostris is substantially different in size and shape.

There has been discussion here on SKF on how different species of shrimp could cross. It was very informative, but basically it boils down to the alignment (or not) of the appendage that the male uses to transfer sperm to the female. These seem to vary substantially between species. I'll look around and try to dig it up.

[fishmosy]

Here it is, funnily enough from this time two years ago -

http://shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/index.php/topic/1546-shrimp-cross-breeding/?hl=hybrid#entry21059

[Jenbenwren]

Thanks for your imput Fishmosy and finding that link. It was a really good informative read.

 

I think I might just stick to having the chameleons in the tank for now. Unless I can find myself a really good microscope, and a few males from different Cardina species to have a look at. Then I can decide which other Cardina species, that have the same or overlapping wp preferences, should be able to be kept together with basically no chance of cross breeding or hybridization due to the differences in each species penis's. lol.

[Grubs]

I'm confident you could put all the natives in one tank without fear of crossing.  There is some evidence to suggest that some of the species we keep are in fact complexes of multiple indistinguishable species that can only be separated by DNA analysis, but that is within each individual species  (e.g. there is thought that riffle shrimp are comprised of a northern and southern variety).  The different natives we keep are for the most part very separate species.

 

The issue of compatibility is more significant with non-native "colourful" shrimp were the different types of shrimp people keep are varieties (e.g. colour variations) of the same species.  e.g. red, yellow, blue cherries are all cherry shrimp.

[fishmosy]

Agreed, but the recent indications that the substantial proportion of our CRS types are likely to be hybrids suggests we should be careful nonetheless.

[warren63]

I keep DRNS and chameleons together without any dramas or cross breeding.