misterious shrimp death after using powder product

[salvanost]

i use lot of products and there always 1-4 shrimps death after using the powder product

i don't understand the reason, even when using only 1/5 dosage still not helping at all

 

exception only borneo wild stout and mineral salty shrimp

 

here all product i use

- mosura rich water

- mosura bioplus

- mosura old sea mud

- mosura tonic pro

- mosura denitro

- borneo wild shield
- borneo wild vigor

- lowkey all in one

- ada bacter 100

 

note:

old sea mud would cause casuality if i'm using it too much/often

 

any suggestion welcome

Edited October 23, 2014 by salvanost

[GotCrabs]

Well don't use those products, if you are having a number of deaths after using those foods then switch to something else.

Contact forum member Squiggles, he'll point you in the right direction, also look at the foods on Boss Aquaria, especially Shrimp Booster, Crack, Snow.

[2OFUS]

Check your tds

You are adding alot of minerals

If you use to much salty shrimp mineral your tds will sky rocket and also it will raise your GH

If your gh is to high this will/could cause molting issues which will cause death

[Squiggle]

Whoa, that's a lot of additives, I would only use one or two, & as 2OFUS said, check your TDS & other WP to see if they are affecting them too much, this will definitely cause issues.

 

Do you add these all on the same day or on a rotation?

[salvanost]

rotation

i will add 1 week between non food product, but still following the dossage,

for example mosura rich water only use once a month, denitro once a month too, so i use this schedule

and if some product got same result like borneo wild shield and mosura tonic pro, i will use one of them only
 

each week. mosura bioplus twice a week (because this is baby shrimp food) and
week 1. old sea mud (when wc)

week 2. mosura shield/tonic pro (when wc)

week 3. mosura rich water (when wc)

week 4. mosura denitro (if nitrate above 15ppm) (when wc)

 

nothing wrong with the tds and gh

tds max 130 (if above 130, i will drop it using dripping to 120-125)
gh 4,5-5

 

next product i will try

- glasgarten bacter ae (to replace mosura bioplus and other bactery dosing)

- glasgarten baby food (to replace the mosura bioplus too)

Edited October 24, 2014 by salvanost

[fishmosy]

(if nitrate above 15ppm)

 

I think this may be a clue.

Many additives contain organic material. This may be adding to the overall nitrogen load of your tank and causing deaths.

I've found less = more when it comes to additives.

[matblack]

They don't like sudden change  What type of shrimp are you talking about and how large is

 your tank and water changes

[salvanost]

They don't like sudden change What type of shrimp are you talking about and how large is

your tank and water changes

Mostly all neo and some caridina got same issue

It's really hard to reduce nitrate below 10

Anyone know the trick?

big wc is no no for me, could result shrimp death too

[OzShrimp]

Check your tds

You are adding alot of minerals

If you use to much salty shrimp mineral your tds will sky rocket and also it will raise your GH

If your gh is to high this will/could cause molting issues which will cause death

I think this hits the nail on the head. Ultimately if you need to do a big WC to spare deaths in the future it could save you deaths. Doing a big WC doesnt mean you have an extreme risk either it depends how different the paremeters are and how quick you actually add your new water. When i do my water changes i will just pour 30 litres or so into my tank and no deaths you just have to do things the safest way

[jayc]

Where are you located salvanost?

[Shrimpy Daddy]

i use lot of products and there always 1-4 shrimps death after using the powder product

i don't understand the reason, even when using only 1/5 dosage still not helping at all

 

exception only borneo wild stout and mineral salty shrimp

 

here all product i use

- mosura rich water

- mosura bioplus

- mosura old sea mud

- mosura tonic pro

- mosura denitro

- borneo wild shield

- borneo wild vigor

- lowkey all in one

- ada bacter 100

 

note:

old sea mud would cause casuality if i'm using it too much/often

 

any suggestion welcome

 

Not all products of the different brands are able to work together, they will interact and have residue that you will never be able to remove. In addition, some brands (I shall not say which) do have have proper R&D and their own product may not even work well with their own.

 

How long have you been performing this dosing regime? What shrimps are you keeping and water are the water parameters?

[jayc]

rotation

i will add 1 week between non food product, but still following the dossage,

for example mosura rich water only use once a month, denitro once a month too, so i use this schedule

and if some product got same result like borneo wild shield and mosura tonic pro, i will use one of them only

 

each week. mosura bioplus twice a week (because this is baby shrimp food) and

week 1. old sea mud (when wc)

week 2. mosura shield/tonic pro (when wc)

week 3. mosura rich water (when wc)

week 4. mosura denitro (if nitrate above 15ppm) (when wc)

 

nothing wrong with the tds and gh

tds max 130 (if above 130, i will drop it using dripping to 120-125)

gh 4,5-5

 

next product i will try

- glasgarten bacter ae (to replace mosura bioplus and other bactery dosing)

- glasgarten baby food (to replace the mosura bioplus too)

 

 

I agree with what people are saying here.

A lot of the products you are using are doing the same thing and doubling up on it's functionality.

Mosura denitro isn't doing anything more than what a healthy filter is doing, assuming you have sufficient filtration for the size of tank you have. If this truely works you wouldn't be seeing nitrates. I'm sceptical a powdered product is capable of turning nitrite and nitrates into "a harmless gaseous state of nitrogen". 

 

Mosura rich water is just adding fulvic acid, nothing a cheaper bottle of blackwater won't do, or a few Indian Almond leaves in the tank won't do. 

 

I'm convinced Old Sea mud is just Montmorillonite Powder with some other additives. You don't really think they dredge up old sea mud from the ocean for use in a freshwater tank do you?

 

All the other products have no description of what it contains. Which means we have no idea what it is doing to the water in the tank.

And that's the problem with using these big name products. Their ingredients are a closely guarded secret. But once you realise what it is, you will understand that there are cheaper alternatives. 

You only have what the manufacturer's description of what it does, but have you questioned the description about what it REALLY does?

It seems like I'm picking on Mosura, I'm not. I like using some of their products. 

 

Take Borneo Wild Vigor for example. It's description says - "You can observe that shrimps stop dying during unsuccessful moulting. Vigor also helps in boosting plant growth in a planted tank." 

Really?? Yet you have shrimp dying, most likely from moulting issues if I was to take a guess. And how does it boost plant growth??

 

I'm not picking on Borneo Wild either. Again I use some of their products.

 

But not all at once.

 

You have a lot of food products. So with the exception of the food products, I would cut down of all the other additives to just one.

You mentioned using Salty Shrimp mineral. Does this mean you use RO water?

If you do, then that is all I would use. Salty Shrimp with RO water matched to the parameters in your tank and added slowly. This assumes your filter is well established and sufficient in terms of size to cater for your bioload.

Water changes at 10%, no more, to maintain water parameter consistency.

 

You can continue feeding using the foods you have.

 

The key is to keep the water parameters as stable as possible with as little fluctuation as possible.

The weekly addition of tonics in the regime above, whether you need it or not, is creating constant changes to the tank's parameters. 

 

Adopt the K.I.S.S. principle. Keep It Shrimply Simple.

Good filtration and stable/constant water parameters suited to the shrimp you are keeping.

Use the processed foods, they are good for a staple (that means you feed it regularly when you are too lazy to make fresh foods).

But give your shrimp fresh foods occasionally ... leaves, flowers, fruits (we have a list in the Food & Nutrition section).

Give your shrimp protein ... frozen blood worms. They will get more nutrients out of blood worms than you can find in any processed foods. 

 

Not only will KISS save you money, your shrimp will probably be better off for it.

[fishmosy]

Well said jayc

[salvanost]

Hello, sorry for late replay

Right now keeping taiwan bee, misc, tiger bee, taiwan tiger bee, inside 1 tank with 2 breeding sponge, no pregnant shrimp from shrimp with tiger gen so far, the tank is 2 month old

And old tank is 8 month, using this additive regime for 4 months now

I'm located at Indonesia

And using ro water start with 008 tds then adding salty shrimp +

No molting issue from failed molting,

Just sometime when i turn on the light, i scare some shrimp while the shrimp still molting process

Ussually result the shrimp won't eat at all, dying after 1 week

I will change my wc

- big wc to reduce the nitrate, with same water tds

- small wc, to adjust the parameter from using product and tds raise because water evaporation

And stop using all powdered product i know causing trouble in the past

I will try glassgarten product later

[salvanost]

Thanks everyone for the inputs

Hope everyone would help me again later when i'm setup new tank

I will update again later

Will try to improvised KISS and more stable tank

Edited October 29, 2014 by salvanost

[OzShrimp]

No molting issue from failed molting,

Just sometime when i turn on the light, i scare some shrimp while the shrimp still molting process

Ussually result the shrimp won't eat at all, dying after 1 week

 

The moulting of a shrimp is actually quiet quick like seconds, so if they are moulting slowly to the point you are disturbing them then there is definitely a strong chance that there is an issue with their moulting process

 

Edited October 29, 2014 by OzShrimp

[salvanost]

i just watched them jumping and leaving the shell like the video

 

when that happen, the shrimp won't eating anything, starve to death :(

 

but still not problem like failed molting (the shrimp runs out energy while molting, death with half finished molt position)

Edited November 3, 2014 by salvanost

[jayc]

but still not problem like failed molting (the shrimp runs out energy while molting, death with half finished molt position)

 

Hmm, sounds like a moulting problem to me.

[OzShrimp]

Ditto i am in agreeance

[Squiggle]

+2, definitely sounds like a moulting problem.

[salvanost]

don't worry, the tds around 120-140

so it's fine for a while ( i think)

[Sprae]

TDS is purely an indicator. If 90% of that 140ppm is calcium, you'd still have moulting issues.

 

Moulting death comes from two extremes, new shell too soft or old shell too hard. You might want to check your calcium levels with something like this - http://www.apifishcare.com/product.php?id=585#.VFqblPmUcoo

[salvanost]

already use glasgarten baby shrimp food for 2 weeks, no death shrimp at all

except when i use borneo wild shield, fortunately no victims from mosura tonic pro when i use it a little for twice a week

i'm using both tonic pro and borneo wild because the beta glucan

 

i'm really happy with glasgarten baby shrimp food

already give mosura bioplus to my friend, will give the bw shield too later

[jayc]

Seems like you found the cause.

Don't use Shield.

 

If you want to add Beta Glucan, just feed your shrimp some Oats.

Oats is packed with Beta-Glucan.

 

Another good food for baby shrimps is Bee pollen.

I find it very economical on the wallet for a 250g bottle as well.

Edited November 19, 2014 by jayc

[2OFUS]

Where do you buy your bee pollen jay ?

I have looked EVERYWHERE !!!