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petfish

mischlings and Tibee

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jayc

We need to resolve this misunderstanding of filial generation numbering.

 

This is one definition of Filial generation:

Definitions:
1. the offspring of a genetically specified mating: first filial generation (symbol F1), the offspring of parents of contrasting genotypes; second filial generation (F2), the offspring of two F1 individuals; third filial generation (F3), fourth filial generation (F4), etc., the offspring in succeeding generations of continued inbreeding of F1 descendents.

 

Notice the word inbreeding?

 

Here is another definition of 2nd Filial generation:

Definition of F2 GENERATION

: the generation produced by interbreeding individuals of an F1 generation and consisting of individuals that exhibit the result of recombination and segregation of genes controlling traits for which stocks of the P1 generation differ—called also second filial generation

 

Again notice the word interbreeding?

 

 

And another definition:

Offspring generation. F1 is the first offspring or filial generation; F2 is the second; and so on. Successive generations of progeny in a controlled series of crosses, starting with two specific parents (the P generation) and selfing or intercrossing the progeny of each new (F1; F2; . . . ) generation.

 

Again selfing or Intercrossing.

 

 

You can look it up yourselves to see that - Which ever definition, which ever source, you will always get the same or similar definition.

Filial generations are only counted down the line from parents (P) to offspring, and the interbreeding amongst the Parents and the brother & sister offsprings.

 

The moment you introduce an individual from a different Parent (and thus genealogy), you can't continue counting the Filial number.

 

So while an F4 Tibee X another F4 Tibee of a different parent produces a Tibee 100%, it is no longer an F4 Tibee. The offspring of two different F4 has different genetics now and has to be an F1 again.

 

IF you get two related brother and sister F4 Tibees who share the same P (initial parents), then yes ... it's offspring will be an F5 Tibee.

 

post-599-0-00326500-1412300847_thumb.jpg

 

In this example above, F2 from parents a (F2a) crossed with F2 from parents b (F2b) will result in offspring F1 with common parents ab. 

 

Yes, it's the 3rd generation, and it's still the same type of shrimp as the parents P1 or P2.

But it's no longer an F2 or an F3. 

 

Filial generation is not the same as a Family tree or Generational tree.

 

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ineke

I think a light bulb just went on in my head thank you Jayc. I can now see where the confusion has entered into this debate.  :goodjob:

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jayc

: MIAO :  woohoo!!

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ineke

Seriously though thanks- I have struggled with this for months and you have just explained it so easily- the pictures help too! please make a sticky !

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jayc

This picture has been included in the separate "terminology" thread.

Edited by jayc

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OzShrimp

So for someone that doesnt breed mischlings minshlings etc etc, how do you keep up with what number you are at exactly if their in the one tank.

 

For Example if 2 F1's breed and you hyperthetically get 10 F2 shrimplets and 5 of them grow up to breed F3's however the other 5 F2's are delayed in breeding and end up breeding with the F3 offpsring.

 

 

So theoretically some of your F2's breed with your F3's how do you guys personally keep track of your number and if this happens does this revert your shrimplets from them back to an F1 even though they still come from the same parents.

 

if that makes sense, do you need alot of tanks to segregate each of the F drops to maintain what number you are at ?

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petfish

more tank's LOL

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