Jump to content

DIY Remineralisation for RO or Rain Water


Recommended Posts

Josh16622
1 hour ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

This is definitely one for JayC who will  likely be on later (different time zone), I only use the commercial shrimp mineral products myself!

Simon

Okay thanks Simon!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 232
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • jayc

    84

  • revolutionhope

    15

  • Photo fish

    11

  • Spidey

    10

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Here is my formula for re-mineralising RO or Rain water:   Powdered compound Grams needed: Calcium Sulphate CaSO4 Heptahydrate (so it dissolves easily

It pays to read the threads on SKFA.

There's your problem. And that IS weird.   I haven't measured it like that, so I wouldn't know. I add my 106gm mix into a bottle and add 500ml water. So I turn the mix into a liquid.

Posted Images

jayc
12 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

If I'm keeping sulawesi shrimps, can I use this and mix with my tap water? Would it be suitable?

The only way of telling is to use the product and test the water parameters unfortunately. I would not know otherwise.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh16622
3 hours ago, jayc said:

The only way of telling is to use the product and test the water parameters unfortunately. I would not know otherwise.

 

Okay thanks, if say my tap water is changing sometimes, do I check for gh and kh every water change, or can I look at tds?

Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc
3 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

if say my tap water is changing sometimes, do I check for gh and kh every water change, or can I look at tds?

I would test GHKH and TDS every water change, just  to get an initial idea of your tap water parameters.

Write them down into a spreadsheet.

Eventually you will see a pattern where 100TDS = GH4 & KH1 (for example only).

Once you have collected enough data on your tap water, you can go by TDS reading after that (however, never trust TDS by itself 100%).

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Shrimpneewbie

Do you think it would be possible if you could help by remaking one for sulawesi shrimps? and for neos do i add calcium carbonate and calcium sulphate or just use 10-20g of calcium carbonate? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

Do you think it would be possible if you could help by remaking one for sulawesi shrimps?

I don't keep Sulawesi shrimp. So if i buy the ingredients for it, they won't get used and will be a waste of my money. Hope you understand.

If you still want to try making it look for 

Calcium Chloride Dihydrate 
Magnesium chloride hexahydrate 
Potassium chloride 

 

28 minutes ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

and for neos do i add calcium carbonate and calcium sulphate or just use 10-20g of calcium carbonate? 

For Neos, you replace the Calcium sulphate with Calcium carbonate completely. So the formula will look like this ...

Calcium carbonate CaCO3

60gm
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4 35gm

solubility of CaCO3 is a lot worse in water compared to CaSO4. The acidity in RO water will help. Cold RO water will help it dissolve more too.

The CaCO3 needs to be pounded down as fine as possible to help it dissolve. 

Edited by jayc
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Shrimpneewbie
6 hours ago, jayc said:

I don't keep Sulawesi shrimp. So if i buy the ingredients for it, they won't get used and will be a waste of my money. Hope you understand.

If you still want to try making it look for 

Calcium Chloride Dihydrate 
Magnesium chloride hexahydrate 
Potassium chloride 

 

For Neos, you replace the Calcium sulphate with Calcium carbonate completely. So the formula will look like this ...

Calcium carbonate CaCO3

60gm
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4 35gm

solubility of CaCO3 is a lot worse in water compared to CaSO4. The acidity in RO water will help. Cold RO water will help it dissolve more too.

The CaCO3 needs to be pounded down as fine as possible to help it dissolve. 

So i would just follow your ratio ca:mg as per your diy mix for the sulawesi?

besides using ro water to dissolve it, are there any other easier ways to make it dissolve in water? And when you mean cold, is like 20celcius okay?
Sorry if im wrong, pounded down as in getting a mortar and pestle and pounding it down? Sorry if im asking too much

Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

So i would just follow your ratio ca:mg as per your diy mix for the sulawesi?

No Calcium chloride solubility is much higher than Calcium Sulphate.

Try 50gm of CaCO3 to 30gm of MgSO4. That should get you close to 4:1 ratio. 

 

12 hours ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

And when you mean cold, is like 20celcius okay?

No I mean like cold from the refrigerator cold. 5 DegC.

12 hours ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

Sorry if im wrong, pounded down as in getting a mortar and pestle and pounding it down?

Yes, correct.

12 hours ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

Sorry if im asking too much

No at all. No worries. That's how we learn. 

Edited by jayc
Link to post
Share on other sites
Shrimpneewbie
9 hours ago, jayc said:

No Calcium chloride solubility is much higher than Calcium Sulphate.

Try 50gm of CaCO3 to 30gm of MgSO4. That should get you close to 4:1 ratio. 

Okay what about potassium? how much do i use?

9 hours ago, jayc said:

No I mean like cold from the refrigerator cold. 5 DegC.

Yes, correct.

No at all. No worries. That's how we learn. 

Ah okay. I will try to use those techniques. Thanks

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc
17 minutes ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

Okay what about potassium? how much do i use?

What Potassium have you got? Potassium chloride?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Shrimpneewbie
19 hours ago, jayc said:

What Potassium have you got? Potassium chloride?

Currenlty sulphate but i can source chloride.

Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

Currenlty sulphate but i can source chloride.

Chlorides will help counter the insolubility of Carbonates, so I suggest using Potassium chloride.

Edited by jayc
Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc

@Shrimpneewbie, have you bought the ingredients for making your own Sulawesi remineraliser mix yet?

If not, please hold off on purchasing it.

I have been rethinking how I would approach this, and there might be a simpler ingredient instead of using Calcium carbonate.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Shrimpneewbie
10 hours ago, jayc said:

@Shrimpneewbie, have you bought the ingredients for making your own Sulawesi remineraliser mix yet?

If not, please hold off on purchasing it.

I have been rethinking how I would approach this, and there might be a simpler ingredient instead of using Calcium carbonate.

 

Okay ill hold on for now, thanks for helping me out jay. If you do manage to think which i think you will because youre good at what you do hahaha. Please let me know if you do succeed. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Gavin

Hi jayc...I was impressed enough by this thread and your ongoing input that I joined the forum. I've been researching DIY mix for Melbourne tap water which is so soft it may as well be RO/Rain Water.

I've pulled down my suppliers Annual Water report to know the detailed MIN | MAX | AVG range of all components in my local tap water. I then top up various components to reach desired ppm, pH, GH, etc.

One thing I haven't been able to achive is 4+ KH with stable <7.5 pH. Any tips on gaining a higher KH with neutral pH and without using CO2 or Phosphate buffers? We know KH inceases pH but some locations such as in USA seem to naturally have this water combination I'm looking for.

My latest DIY recipe has KH 2 so pH buffering is poor. Anyone can increase KH at the expense of high pH but I want to keep pH below 7.5, and do it without Phosphate based additives.

As an aside, adding a bag of sea shells to each tank seems to be helping in that it's prevented pH from dropping below 6.7 for the past two months. The shells aren't crushed (which would increase their surface area/effectiveness). I've also just added a bag of Dolomite gravel to see how that goes (it will slowly release Ca & Mg).

I've just calculated my DIY mix is around 6.5x cheaper than purchasing commercial products. DIY is $0.75 per 220 lt. of change water vs. $4.97 for commercial. Shipping costs can partially reduce this DIY advantage because Commercial can be bought in one go from a local aquarium shop. However for Kegland sourced items I included a 20% allowance for shipping cost in my comparison.        

$0.75 Total Cost DIY Mix per 220 lt.

...verses $4.97 for commercial products comprising:    
$4.18 for 88 g per 220 lt. of Seachem Equilibrium (based on 600g buy at $28.50)
$0.26 for 5 ml per 220 lt. of Seachem Prime Water Dechlorinator    (based on 1 lt. buy at $51.45)
$0.53 for 12g per 220 lt. Seachem Alkaline Buffer adjusts pH alkaline (7.2 -8.5) based on 600g buy at $26.25 (this is a Sodium bicarbonate based buffer).


DIY Recipe (today's version)
======================
Dry Weight added to 220 lt. barrel of South East Melbourne tap water:

1.5g Ascorbic Acid (C6H8O6) Vitamin C (add first)
3.5g Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk
17g Calcium sulphate dihydrate (CaSO4.2H2O) Gypsum
17g Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4.7H2O) Epsom Salt
1g Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O) Pickle Crisp - optional, just testing it.
6g Potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) - thanks to you I'll soon try substituting this with 4.9g of  Potassium sulfate (K2SO4)
0.5g DTPA Iron Chelate (11%) (add chelates last)
A future addition...
~0.2g of 50%/50% mix of Mn & Zn powder (add sulphates last). Considering buying Manutec 500g Zinc and Manganese Soluble Powder from Bunnings.

Above added Ca 31.6 ppm : Mg 8.82 ppm : K 9.69 ppm for a ratio of 3.5 : 1 : 1.1. Clearly Ca can be increased for more GH and TDS, as part of reaching for 4:1 ratio with Mg.

Test Results
============
Total Chlorine 0.00 ppm. Hanna Checker.
Free Chlorine 0.00 ppm. Hanna Checker.
TDS between 152-157
pH 7.0 (becomes 7.6 after 48 hours). However after 50% WC my tanks range from pH 6.9 to 7.3 so this higher pH change water is working ok.
KH 2dKH (< 35.8 ppm)
GH 5 degrees
Ca somewhere between 26-37.5 ppm
Mg ~9-10 ppm
Chloride ~10 ppm (calculated, not tested)
Potassium ~10-11 ppm
Fe ~0.5-0.6 ppm. Online calculator suggests I've added 0.25 ppm. I need to get a checker from Hanna Instruments for better accuracy than my current hobbiest test kits.
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm
Cu 0 ppm
Phosphate 0.00 ppm. Hanna Checker.

The lengths we go to, to know what's being put into our tanks and ideally with little or no Na, Cl or P.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc
8 hours ago, Gavin said:

One thing I haven't been able to achive is 4+ KH with stable <7.5 pH. Any tips on gaining a higher KH with neutral pH and without using CO2 or Phosphate buffers?

Hi Gavin, welcome to SKFA!

You need to increase Calcium chloride. CaCl2 reduces pH.

So replace some Calcium Sulphate and/or Calcium Carbonate in your recipe with CaCl2. (not necessarily 1 to 1 since calcium chloride is more soluble than calcium sulphate and certainly calcium carbonate) 

The increase solubility of CaCl2 will also help with reaching the ideal 4:1 Ca:Mg ratio. 

As a starting point, modify your recipe to

  • 1.5g Ascorbic Acid (C6H8O6) Vitamin C (add first)
  • 1.5g Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk
  • 15g Calcium sulphate dihydrate (CaSO4.2H2O) Gypsum
  • 17g Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4.7H2O) Epsom Salt
  • 2.0gm Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O) Pickle Crisp - optional, just testing it.
  • 6g Potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) - thanks to you I'll soon try substituting this with 4.9g of  Potassium sulfate (K2SO4)
  • 0.5g DTPA Iron Chelate (11%) (add chelates last)

If KH drops too much in the amounts changed above, add back a bit of Calcium carbonate. But this should be a good start for you and your goal.

Good luck with the testing. Let me know how you go.

Melbourne water being so soft is a great problem to have. Many fish & shrimp keepers would love have that water come out of their tap.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Gavin

Thanks for the response. I recently tried this recipe three times using 5g of Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O). All it did was raise GH from 5 to 6 (and of course increase ppm of Chloride). KH remained at 2 and initial pH around 7. I've also tried Calcium chloride at 25g and 30g in more distant past.

What does make a significant impact on pH is Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk, even just varying the amount between 3.5g-5g impacted pH but KH remained at 2. I can get KH higher by adding more Potassium bicarbonate but that creates an excess concentration of Potassium (I'm aiming for 10 ppm), and resultant algae problems. When I soon try replacing Potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) with Potassium Sulphate then KH will probably drop to 1. Also Bicarbonates are just temporary buffers so pH won't remain stable. Perhaps it's time to start trying various carbonates and hydroxides but they're more dangerous chemicals. :(

You right that most people would love to have Melbourne tap water. It's just a bugger to reach KH 4+ while trying to keep pH down.

I know it can be done by locking the pH with Phosphate based chemicals but I'm also looking to have zero Phosphate in the recipe.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc

If your aim is to reduce the pH in your mix, than the answer is playing with the quantities of Calcium Carbonate and Calcium Chloride.

Reduce Calcium carbonate to 1.5grams as I indicated, and increase Calcium chloride to 2grams (maybe a bit more).

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Gavin

I'm looking for a way to increase KH from 2 to 4+ while at the same time keeping pH below 7.6 and GH at 6-8. Ideally want KH 5-6 and pH between 6.8-7.2. Adding enough Bicarbonates will get KH to 5-6 but it will also increase pH over 7.5.

Sea shells hold some promise but are very slow acting. Dolomite gravel will probably also help. Still need a way to get desired values via change water.

P. S. My tap water is pH 6.9 with GH and KH each of 1 degree (or less).

Edited by Gavin
More accurate information.
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Gavin

I've not seen anyone post pH, GH, KH, TDS changes to their water mix as each ingredient is added. I've done so for interest and was surprised to discover Calcium chloride noticeably increased my pH. After researching it "CaCl2 comes from a Strong Base and a Strong Acid. For salts of strong bases and strong acids the pH will remain neutral at 7".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

13-05-2021 Recipe. Change water is 26.5 degrees and constantly mixing via water pump. Each ingredient is cumulative.

1) 220 lt. of warmed tap water. pH 6.9, GH 1 degree or less, KH 1 degree or less, TDS 32-35. Very soft water.

2) Add 1.5g of Vitamin C Powder (wait 4-8 mins). pH 6.75. GH, KH & TDS Not tested. Resultant pH drop was expected.

3) Add 18g of Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4.7H2O). pH 6.65, GH 3, KH 1 degree or less. TDS 72-74. pH drop was expected.

4) Add 4.7g of Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4) Sulphate of Potash. pH 6.7, GH 3, KH 1 degree or less. TDS 90-93. Minimal effect on pH was expected.

5) Add 2g of Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O). pH 7.1, GH 3, KH 1 degree or less, TDS 98-101. CaCl2 noticeably increased pH! This was unexpected.

6) Add 18.5g of Calcium Sulphate (CaSO4.2H2O). pH 6.75, GH 5, KH 1 degree or less, TDS 151-156. Minimal effect on pH was expected.

7) Add 2g of Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk. pH 6.95, GH 5, KH 1 degree, TDS 163-169. pH increase was expected.

8 ) Add 2g of Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk. This is 4g in total.
...and 0.4g of DTPA Iron Chelate (11%). pH 7.5, GH 5.5, KH 1 degree, TDS 168-174. pH increase is expected.

9) Retested mix 1h later (water is constantly recirculated via a water pump). pH 7.5, GH 5, KH 1 degree, TDS 173-179. Curiously, GH dropped slightly even though TDS increased.

10) Retested mix 24h later (water is still, and temperature dropped to 14.4 degrees). pH 7.5, GH 6, KH 1 degree, TDS 181-187. Curiously GH has increased to 6. TDS will likely vary due to water temperature.

Some parameters of final mix:
Phosphate 0.00 ppm (via Hanna Checker)
Mg 10-10.5 ppm (mg/l) (via JBL Test Kit)
Potassium (K) ~11 ppm (via JBL Test Kit)
Total Chlorine 0.00 ppm (via Hanna Checker)
Free Chlorine 0.00 ppm (via Hanna Checker)
- pH, GH & KH tested via API Freshwater Master Test Kit.
- TDS via 2 cheap and nasty TDS Pens.

Better test devices arriving in 2 weeks:
- Milwaukee Instruments MW102 Pro+ pH pen.
- EC59 Pro TDS and Conductivity pen.
Both of these devices have calibration.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lessons learned: Richgro 1kg Soluble Powder Sulphate of Potash (1 Kg, $11.70 from Bunnings) works fine and tested Phosphate free, however I critically need KH. The +1 KH I get from using Potassium Bicarbonate cannot be given up. There is no interest in using Sodium Bicarbonate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

At this stage, the recipe for next 220 lt. batch of change water is planned as follows:

1.5g of Vitamin C Powder
17g of Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4.7H2O)
5.5g of Potassium Bicarbonate (KHCO3) Buffer
20.5g of Calcium Sulphate (CaSO4.2H2O)
3.5g of Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk
1.1g Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O)
0.4g DTPA Iron Chelate (11%)

Resultant parameters from above plus my tap water will be around pH 7.0-7.4, KH 2, GH 6, TDS 160-170.

Ratios Ca 4 : Mg 1 : K 1.2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone knows of an online Australian retail store where we can buy small quantities (500g or less) of Chelated Zn-EDTA and Mn-EDTA powders, then please advise.

Edited by Gavin
Fixed typing errors.
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc
8 hours ago, Gavin said:

5) Add 2g of Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O). pH 7.1, GH 3, KH 1 degree or less, TDS 98-101. CaCl2 noticeably increased pH! This was unexpected.

6) Add 18.5g of Calcium Sulphate (CaSO4.2H2O). pH 6.75, GH 5, KH 1 degree or less, TDS 151-156. Minimal effect on pH was expected.

7) Add 2g of Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk. pH 6.95, GH 5, KH 1 degree, TDS 163-169. pH increase was expected.

Did you add the above in sequence, ie. one after the other in order into the same container?

I ask because after adding CaCl2 in step 5, you measure 7.1pH. But in step 6, pH has dropped to 6.75. 
Why do you think that is?

 

Also noticed that when adding Calcium Carbonate in steps 7 & 8, there was no change to KH, yet pH increased dramatically. That can't be right. There should be a correlation between KH and pH.  Try another KH test kit?

 

Love this in depth experiment. 

As for Zinc and Manganese, have you seen this from Bunnings? Is this right for you?

https://www.bunnings.com.au/yates-500ml-citrus-cure-zinc-manganese-chelate_p2961863

Link to post
Share on other sites
Gavin

 

Thanks. That Yates product is the first thing I considered but when you look at the MSDS it's "An aqueous solution of zinc and manganese chelated with lignosulfonate." That's a complex sulphate. It's not EDTA or perferrably... DTPA if we could get hold of that.

The best thing I've found is a Micronutrients Trace Mix called Rexolin APN, 100g of Dry Aquarium Fertilisers.
It has Iron DTPA 6%; Manganese EDTA 2.4% and Zinc EDTA 1.3% which is awesome! But it also has Copper EDTA 0.25% which I'd prefer it had zero copper. Even so, with nothing better to be found I'll order 100g today from here: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/153606793895?hash=item23c3adaaa7:g:4sIAAOSwEEVdVyvq

It can also be purchased from here: https://jagaquatics.com.au/products/trace-micronutrients-mix-dry-aquarium-fertilisers-100g?_pos=4&_sid=f0844f6a7&_ss=r

Both of those links appear to be from the same seller.
I'm going to try it at 2g per 220 lt.

Element ratios:               5g per 220 lt.    2g per 220 lt.
Iron DTPA 6%                  1.36 ppm          0.55 ppm
Manganese EDTA 2.4% 0.55 ppm          0.22 ppm
Boron 1.1%                      0.25 ppm          0.1 ppm
Zinc EDTA 1.3%              0.30 ppm          0.12 ppm
Copper EDTA 0.25%       0.06 ppm          0.02 ppm
Molybdenum 0.25%       0.06 ppm          0.02 ppm
Cobalt EDTA 0.03%        0.007 ppm        0.003 ppm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding change water mix. Yes they were added in sequence (i.e. one after the other in order into the same container). Measurements were taken 5 minutes after each addition.

RE: After adding CaCl2 in step 5, you measure 7.1pH. But in step 6, pH has dropped to 6.75. Why do you think that is?
I think it's because Calcium Sulphate reduced the pH. The alternative answer is a faulty pH reading for Calcium chloride dihydrate. Next batch I'll specifically retest pH just prior to and just after adding CaCl2.

Adding Calcium Carbonate absolutely increases pH dramatically. I think the reason it doesn't immediately increase KH is because of its poor solubility in 'pure water'. However it seems CaCO3 does dissolve over time in an acidic aquarium so it will slowly and thus gently help to limit the drop in pH and KH, which is exactly what I'm after. Especially when my change water is poorly buffered at KH 2 rather than KH 4+ which is wanted for pH stability.

Next month when Hanna is due to be on sale, I'll buy their Alkalinity checker. Then there will be no doubt as the to accuracy KH measurements.

Edited by Gavin
Added more information
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc
12 hours ago, Gavin said:

It can also be purchased from here: https://jagaquatics.com.a

Jag Aquatics owner was active on this forum once upon a time. Might even have been a site sponsor once, can't remember now, it's been a while.

 

12 hours ago, Gavin said:

I think it's because Calcium Sulphate reduced the pH. The alternative answer is a faulty pH reading for Calcium chloride dihydrate.

Calcium sulphate doesn't increase KH or pH. So there is only one other possibility. 

That's why I asked you to try adding more Calcium Chloride and less Calcium Carbonate in your recipe.

 

Ideally you should be developing your mix and running test on RO water (0 TDS). Despite Melb water being good, there might be minerals in the tapwater that is influencing your readings.

 

Keep us updated with the new info once you get you new test equipment.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Gavin

What ppm of Chloride are people going for in their remineralised RO water mix?

For my next batch I'm thinking of 10 ppm.
 

Below is a compilation of information from various sources as I try to ascertain a suitable value for aquarium use.

==========================================================================================

Chloride concentrations of between 1 and 100 ppm (parts per million) are normal in freshwater. Chlorides in Fresh Water (University of Rhode Island 2012)

Below Rhode Island rivers range normally from about 5-80 ppm Chloride. From 2001 to 2011, pollution has pushed some rivers up to 120 ppm.

 

image.png.da83b5ade02935023bc1c8cfc18da5de.png

Amazon’s rivers contained <5ppm of Chloride prior to 2014. Chemistry of different Amazonian water types for river classification

 

image.thumb.png.affce0b36db3539faaec9993f511f928.png

 

 

African Rift Lakes measured no more than 36.6 ppm of Chloride in 1997. https://malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm

Chemical Constituent

Lake Victoria

Lake Malawi

Lake Tanganyika

Cl (chloride)
(mg/L)

3.9-7.0

3.57-4.3

20.9-36.6

 

High chloride concentrations in freshwater can harm aquatic organisms by interfering with osmoregulation. Exceeding 230 ppm causes chronic (long-term) exposure effects. Department of Environmental Management (DEM) Rhode Island, USA

Fish are less sensitive to chloride exposure than small, free-floating planktonic crustaceans. Evans and Frick, 2001

Chloride tolerance levels for some brook trout species to be as low as 3.1 ppm. Meador and Carlisle (2007)

Rhode Island’s native spotted salamander has a 40% reduction in survival when spawned in a vernal pool with a chloride concentration over 162 ppm. Karraker, 2008

Salt can be used to prevent nitrite poisoning, if the chloride ions are 30 times the concentration of nitrite ions. https://www.algone.com/using-salt-in-the-freshwater-aquarium Nitrite reaches a toxic level at about 0.1 ppm, which would require about 3 ppm of chloride ions. Depending on the salt (sodium chloride) used, it might translate to about 5 ppm (given that common salt has a chloride concentration of 60%) to ease possible nitrite poisoning.

Sodium Chloride is useful for Brown Blood disease (nitrite poisoning) in freshwater fish as well as for a stress reliever in fish transport. A minimum chloride concentration of 20 ppm is recommended to prevent nitrite toxicity. https://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/03/salt-in-freshwater-aquariums.html

Chlorides (CI-) appear to protect fish from nitrite toxicity. Catfish Farmers Handbook page 23 The minimum ration of chloride to nitrite required to protect fish is 3:1, but a 5:1 or 6:1 chloride to nitrite ratio is better, particularly if the fish have an infection or are stressed by another problem.

Fish die at 5.0 ppm Nitrite so assuming 6:1 ratio of Cl to Nitrite then the most Chloride I’ll ever need to help protect them is 30 ppm.

If you find nitrites in pond water, check the chloride concentration to determine the amount of chloride to add to the pond. Use the following formula to calculate the concentration of chloride (CI-)needed for treatment:

 

 

 

concentration of chloride needed = (5 x N) - C

where: concentration of chloride in ppm in water = C

concentration of nitrite in ppm in water = N

Example: Chloride in pond water = 17 ppm

Nitrite in pond water = 7 ppm

Thus, Chloride needed = (5 x 7) – 17 = 18 ppm, the concentration of chloride needed.

 

There are three different forms of chloride that can be used as a pond treatment for "brown blood" disease…sodium chloride (NaC1), anhydrous calcium chloride (CaC12) or dihydrous calcium chloride (CaC12· 2H20). The amount of each of these required to give 1 ppm chloride per acre foot of water is:

 

 

Sodium chloride (NaCI ) = 4.5 lb

Anhydrous calcium chloride (CaC12) = 4.3 lb

Dihydrous calcium chloride (CaC12· 2H20) = 5.6 lb

Edited by Gavin
Updated
Link to post
Share on other sites
jayc
3 hours ago, Gavin said:

What ppm of Chloride are people going for in their remineralised RO water mix?

In my Neocaridina tanks, nothing more than 20ppm.

My Caridina tanks are free of (added) chlorides, no reason to add any there. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Must Read SKF Articles

  • Join Our Community!

    Register today, ask questions and share your shrimp and fish tank experiences with us!

  • Posts

    • ineke
      Hi Crabby, I’ve been popping in and out quite often and answered a few questions here and there .  Im glad to have been of so assistance to fellow shrimp keepers over the years.  It’s a bit sad to see the forum so quiet. We were a very active and friendly bunch over the years. Helping each other out, giving away shrimp to new members who showed interest. Even playing games between us and generally having fun while learning about our new hobby. As to my tank the reason I queried about the spike of ammonia is mainly because if you play with substrate , move it around etc you can cause a small spike. As my substrate had been outside for quite some time I fully expected it to take a week or so to go through a mini cycle. I’m pleasantly surprised that it still isn’t showing any change just the tiniest bit of nitrate so tomorrow i will catch out 20 culls I have in my pond outside and see how they go. I need a reasonable number because it’s a big tank - if I only put 1 or 2 in I might never see them. I’m wanting to put all my black pinto, galaxy and Taitibees into the tank plus some Blue Bolts and Steel Blues. I will also put my Bloody Mary’s in for a contrasting colour. I only have 3 tanks now so it’s a bit hard to do proper selective breeding but as all my shrimp are hybrids it doesn’t really matter about mixing them. That leaves a tank for my Red pintos and Taitibees and a tank for fancy Tiger patterns and Blue Diamonds. That should keep me happy again.🥰
    • Crabby
      Hi Ineke! I must say, I was pretty surprised to see a post from you, it’s always pretty interesting to see a past member come back to the forum. Some of your posts were really helpful to me when I was getting started with shrimp, so thanks!   I think I would personally wait a week to be sure, but to be honest, I can’t see any reason for an ammonia spike. If the substrate has already run for 4 months, and you have 4 fully cycled filters, I reckon you should be fine. Definitely go culls first though. 
    • sdlTBfanUK
      I uderstand your concern, it is concerning! You are probably just going to have to ride this out, as JayC, add another filter and bacteria, the bacteria you will just have to buy what the shop has and give that ago? Do as thorough vac as you can, moving things out of the way where you can. Keep up with water changes as well as that will reduce the ammonia etc, but add new water slowly. Simon
    • ineke
      Thanks Simon . I just needed someone else’s thoughts. I will pop a few culls in over the weekend if the ammonia hasn’t spiked. Better to be over cautious than sorry. It just didn’t seem right that there was no spike but I guess 2 large canisters full of bacteria are a big help too. I will let you know how the culls go after the weekend.  As you say sometimes things just go right but not very often when you have TB type shrimp involved 😳 No not really I’ve been very lucky over the years with no actual disasters with my shrimp.
    • sdlTBfanUK
      I would thnk everything is ok as the sustrate was used and passed the point it may cause a spike, but just check it for a week (occassionally ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, you could leave it for the week but I would prefer the extra peace of mind you will have from more frequent testing for this week) and try some culls now to be on the safe side! Using the old water will have helped, undoubtedly! There doesn't sound like anything mentioned would cause anything other than what you have seen, but I understand your concern, rarely does everything go so well in this hobby, but with your years of experience and from your post all looks great - I will however keep my fingers crossed................ It is always great to have past members return and hear how it is going? I have read many of your old posts with interest. Simon
×
×
  • Create New...