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DIY Remineralisation for RO or Rain Water


jayc

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1 hour ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

This is definitely one for JayC who will  likely be on later (different time zone), I only use the commercial shrimp mineral products myself!

Simon

Okay thanks Simon!

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12 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

If I'm keeping sulawesi shrimps, can I use this and mix with my tap water? Would it be suitable?

The only way of telling is to use the product and test the water parameters unfortunately. I would not know otherwise.

 

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3 hours ago, jayc said:

The only way of telling is to use the product and test the water parameters unfortunately. I would not know otherwise.

 

Okay thanks, if say my tap water is changing sometimes, do I check for gh and kh every water change, or can I look at tds?

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3 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

if say my tap water is changing sometimes, do I check for gh and kh every water change, or can I look at tds?

I would test GHKH and TDS every water change, just  to get an initial idea of your tap water parameters.

Write them down into a spreadsheet.

Eventually you will see a pattern where 100TDS = GH4 & KH1 (for example only).

Once you have collected enough data on your tap water, you can go by TDS reading after that (however, never trust TDS by itself 100%).

 

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Do you think it would be possible if you could help by remaking one for sulawesi shrimps? and for neos do i add calcium carbonate and calcium sulphate or just use 10-20g of calcium carbonate? 

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28 minutes ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

Do you think it would be possible if you could help by remaking one for sulawesi shrimps?

I don't keep Sulawesi shrimp. So if i buy the ingredients for it, they won't get used and will be a waste of my money. Hope you understand.

If you still want to try making it look for 

Calcium Chloride Dihydrate 
Magnesium chloride hexahydrate 
Potassium chloride 

 

28 minutes ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

and for neos do i add calcium carbonate and calcium sulphate or just use 10-20g of calcium carbonate? 

For Neos, you replace the Calcium sulphate with Calcium carbonate completely. So the formula will look like this ...

Calcium carbonate CaCO3

60gm
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4 35gm

solubility of CaCO3 is a lot worse in water compared to CaSO4. The acidity in RO water will help. Cold RO water will help it dissolve more too.

The CaCO3 needs to be pounded down as fine as possible to help it dissolve. 

Edited by jayc
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6 hours ago, jayc said:

I don't keep Sulawesi shrimp. So if i buy the ingredients for it, they won't get used and will be a waste of my money. Hope you understand.

If you still want to try making it look for 

Calcium Chloride Dihydrate 
Magnesium chloride hexahydrate 
Potassium chloride 

 

For Neos, you replace the Calcium sulphate with Calcium carbonate completely. So the formula will look like this ...

Calcium carbonate CaCO3

60gm
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4 35gm

solubility of CaCO3 is a lot worse in water compared to CaSO4. The acidity in RO water will help. Cold RO water will help it dissolve more too.

The CaCO3 needs to be pounded down as fine as possible to help it dissolve. 

So i would just follow your ratio ca:mg as per your diy mix for the sulawesi?

besides using ro water to dissolve it, are there any other easier ways to make it dissolve in water? And when you mean cold, is like 20celcius okay?
Sorry if im wrong, pounded down as in getting a mortar and pestle and pounding it down? Sorry if im asking too much

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12 hours ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

So i would just follow your ratio ca:mg as per your diy mix for the sulawesi?

No Calcium chloride solubility is much higher than Calcium Sulphate.

Try 50gm of CaCO3 to 30gm of MgSO4. That should get you close to 4:1 ratio. 

 

12 hours ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

And when you mean cold, is like 20celcius okay?

No I mean like cold from the refrigerator cold. 5 DegC.

12 hours ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

Sorry if im wrong, pounded down as in getting a mortar and pestle and pounding it down?

Yes, correct.

12 hours ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

Sorry if im asking too much

No at all. No worries. That's how we learn. 

Edited by jayc
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9 hours ago, jayc said:

No Calcium chloride solubility is much higher than Calcium Sulphate.

Try 50gm of CaCO3 to 30gm of MgSO4. That should get you close to 4:1 ratio. 

Okay what about potassium? how much do i use?

9 hours ago, jayc said:

No I mean like cold from the refrigerator cold. 5 DegC.

Yes, correct.

No at all. No worries. That's how we learn. 

Ah okay. I will try to use those techniques. Thanks

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17 minutes ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

Okay what about potassium? how much do i use?

What Potassium have you got? Potassium chloride?

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19 hours ago, jayc said:

What Potassium have you got? Potassium chloride?

Currenlty sulphate but i can source chloride.

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4 hours ago, Shrimpneewbie said:

Currenlty sulphate but i can source chloride.

Chlorides will help counter the insolubility of Carbonates, so I suggest using Potassium chloride.

Edited by jayc
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@Shrimpneewbie, have you bought the ingredients for making your own Sulawesi remineraliser mix yet?

If not, please hold off on purchasing it.

I have been rethinking how I would approach this, and there might be a simpler ingredient instead of using Calcium carbonate.

 

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10 hours ago, jayc said:

@Shrimpneewbie, have you bought the ingredients for making your own Sulawesi remineraliser mix yet?

If not, please hold off on purchasing it.

I have been rethinking how I would approach this, and there might be a simpler ingredient instead of using Calcium carbonate.

 

Okay ill hold on for now, thanks for helping me out jay. If you do manage to think which i think you will because youre good at what you do hahaha. Please let me know if you do succeed. 

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Hi jayc...I was impressed enough by this thread and your ongoing input that I joined the forum. I've been researching DIY mix for Melbourne tap water which is so soft it may as well be RO/Rain Water.

I've pulled down my suppliers Annual Water report to know the detailed MIN | MAX | AVG range of all components in my local tap water. I then top up various components to reach desired ppm, pH, GH, etc.

One thing I haven't been able to achive is 4+ KH with stable <7.5 pH. Any tips on gaining a higher KH with neutral pH and without using CO2 or Phosphate buffers? We know KH inceases pH but some locations such as in USA seem to naturally have this water combination I'm looking for.

My latest DIY recipe has KH 2 so pH buffering is poor. Anyone can increase KH at the expense of high pH but I want to keep pH below 7.5, and do it without Phosphate based additives.

As an aside, adding a bag of sea shells to each tank seems to be helping in that it's prevented pH from dropping below 6.7 for the past two months. The shells aren't crushed (which would increase their surface area/effectiveness). I've also just added a bag of Dolomite gravel to see how that goes (it will slowly release Ca & Mg).

I've just calculated my DIY mix is around 6.5x cheaper than purchasing commercial products. DIY is $0.75 per 220 lt. of change water vs. $4.97 for commercial. Shipping costs can partially reduce this DIY advantage because Commercial can be bought in one go from a local aquarium shop. However for Kegland sourced items I included a 20% allowance for shipping cost in my comparison.        

$0.75 Total Cost DIY Mix per 220 lt.

...verses $4.97 for commercial products comprising:    
$4.18 for 88 g per 220 lt. of Seachem Equilibrium (based on 600g buy at $28.50)
$0.26 for 5 ml per 220 lt. of Seachem Prime Water Dechlorinator    (based on 1 lt. buy at $51.45)
$0.53 for 12g per 220 lt. Seachem Alkaline Buffer adjusts pH alkaline (7.2 -8.5) based on 600g buy at $26.25 (this is a Sodium bicarbonate based buffer).


DIY Recipe (today's version)
======================
Dry Weight added to 220 lt. barrel of South East Melbourne tap water:

1.5g Ascorbic Acid (C6H8O6) Vitamin C (add first)
3.5g Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk
17g Calcium sulphate dihydrate (CaSO4.2H2O) Gypsum
17g Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4.7H2O) Epsom Salt
1g Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O) Pickle Crisp - optional, just testing it.
6g Potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) - thanks to you I'll soon try substituting this with 4.9g of  Potassium sulfate (K2SO4)
0.5g DTPA Iron Chelate (11%) (add chelates last)
A future addition...
~0.2g of 50%/50% mix of Mn & Zn powder (add sulphates last). Considering buying Manutec 500g Zinc and Manganese Soluble Powder from Bunnings.

Above added Ca 31.6 ppm : Mg 8.82 ppm : K 9.69 ppm for a ratio of 3.5 : 1 : 1.1. Clearly Ca can be increased for more GH and TDS, as part of reaching for 4:1 ratio with Mg.

Test Results
============
Total Chlorine 0.00 ppm. Hanna Checker.
Free Chlorine 0.00 ppm. Hanna Checker.
TDS between 152-157
pH 7.0 (becomes 7.6 after 48 hours). However after 50% WC my tanks range from pH 6.9 to 7.3 so this higher pH change water is working ok.
KH 2dKH (< 35.8 ppm)
GH 5 degrees
Ca somewhere between 26-37.5 ppm
Mg ~9-10 ppm
Chloride ~10 ppm (calculated, not tested)
Potassium ~10-11 ppm
Fe ~0.5-0.6 ppm. Online calculator suggests I've added 0.25 ppm. I need to get a checker from Hanna Instruments for better accuracy than my current hobbiest test kits.
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm
Cu 0 ppm
Phosphate 0.00 ppm. Hanna Checker.

The lengths we go to, to know what's being put into our tanks and ideally with little or no Na, Cl or P.

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8 hours ago, Gavin said:

One thing I haven't been able to achive is 4+ KH with stable <7.5 pH. Any tips on gaining a higher KH with neutral pH and without using CO2 or Phosphate buffers?

Hi Gavin, welcome to SKFA!

You need to increase Calcium chloride. CaCl2 reduces pH.

So replace some Calcium Sulphate and/or Calcium Carbonate in your recipe with CaCl2. (not necessarily 1 to 1 since calcium chloride is more soluble than calcium sulphate and certainly calcium carbonate) 

The increase solubility of CaCl2 will also help with reaching the ideal 4:1 Ca:Mg ratio. 

As a starting point, modify your recipe to

  • 1.5g Ascorbic Acid (C6H8O6) Vitamin C (add first)
  • 1.5g Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk
  • 15g Calcium sulphate dihydrate (CaSO4.2H2O) Gypsum
  • 17g Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4.7H2O) Epsom Salt
  • 2.0gm Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O) Pickle Crisp - optional, just testing it.
  • 6g Potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) - thanks to you I'll soon try substituting this with 4.9g of  Potassium sulfate (K2SO4)
  • 0.5g DTPA Iron Chelate (11%) (add chelates last)

If KH drops too much in the amounts changed above, add back a bit of Calcium carbonate. But this should be a good start for you and your goal.

Good luck with the testing. Let me know how you go.

Melbourne water being so soft is a great problem to have. Many fish & shrimp keepers would love have that water come out of their tap.

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Thanks for the response. I recently tried this recipe three times using 5g of Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O). All it did was raise GH from 5 to 6 (and of course increase ppm of Chloride). KH remained at 2 and initial pH around 7. I've also tried Calcium chloride at 25g and 30g in more distant past.

What does make a significant impact on pH is Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk, even just varying the amount between 3.5g-5g impacted pH but KH remained at 2. I can get KH higher by adding more Potassium bicarbonate but that creates an excess concentration of Potassium (I'm aiming for 10 ppm), and resultant algae problems. When I soon try replacing Potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) with Potassium Sulphate then KH will probably drop to 1. Also Bicarbonates are just temporary buffers so pH won't remain stable. Perhaps it's time to start trying various carbonates and hydroxides but they're more dangerous chemicals. :(

You right that most people would love to have Melbourne tap water. It's just a bugger to reach KH 4+ while trying to keep pH down.

I know it can be done by locking the pH with Phosphate based chemicals but I'm also looking to have zero Phosphate in the recipe.

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If your aim is to reduce the pH in your mix, than the answer is playing with the quantities of Calcium Carbonate and Calcium Chloride.

Reduce Calcium carbonate to 1.5grams as I indicated, and increase Calcium chloride to 2grams (maybe a bit more).

 

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I'm looking for a way to increase KH from 2 to 4+ while at the same time keeping pH below 7.6 and GH at 6-8. Ideally want KH 5-6 and pH between 6.8-7.2. Adding enough Bicarbonates will get KH to 5-6 but it will also increase pH over 7.5.

Sea shells hold some promise but are very slow acting. Dolomite gravel will probably also help. Still need a way to get desired values via change water.

P. S. My tap water is pH 6.9 with GH and KH each of 1 degree (or less).

Edited by Gavin
More accurate information.
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I've not seen anyone post pH, GH, KH, TDS changes to their water mix as each ingredient is added. I've done so for interest and was surprised to discover Calcium chloride noticeably increased my pH. After researching it "CaCl2 comes from a Strong Base and a Strong Acid. For salts of strong bases and strong acids the pH will remain neutral at 7".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

13-05-2021 Recipe. Change water is 26.5 degrees and constantly mixing via water pump. Each ingredient is cumulative.

1) 220 lt. of warmed tap water. pH 6.9, GH 1 degree or less, KH 1 degree or less, TDS 32-35. Very soft water.

2) Add 1.5g of Vitamin C Powder (wait 4-8 mins). pH 6.75. GH, KH & TDS Not tested. Resultant pH drop was expected.

3) Add 18g of Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4.7H2O). pH 6.65, GH 3, KH 1 degree or less. TDS 72-74. pH drop was expected.

4) Add 4.7g of Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4) Sulphate of Potash. pH 6.7, GH 3, KH 1 degree or less. TDS 90-93. Minimal effect on pH was expected.

5) Add 2g of Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O). pH 7.1, GH 3, KH 1 degree or less, TDS 98-101. CaCl2 noticeably increased pH! This was unexpected.

6) Add 18.5g of Calcium Sulphate (CaSO4.2H2O). pH 6.75, GH 5, KH 1 degree or less, TDS 151-156. Minimal effect on pH was expected.

7) Add 2g of Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk. pH 6.95, GH 5, KH 1 degree, TDS 163-169. pH increase was expected.

8 ) Add 2g of Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk. This is 4g in total.
...and 0.4g of DTPA Iron Chelate (11%). pH 7.5, GH 5.5, KH 1 degree, TDS 168-174. pH increase is expected.

9) Retested mix 1h later (water is constantly recirculated via a water pump). pH 7.5, GH 5, KH 1 degree, TDS 173-179. Curiously, GH dropped slightly even though TDS increased.

10) Retested mix 24h later (water is still, and temperature dropped to 14.4 degrees). pH 7.5, GH 6, KH 1 degree, TDS 181-187. Curiously GH has increased to 6. TDS will likely vary due to water temperature.

Some parameters of final mix:
Phosphate 0.00 ppm (via Hanna Checker)
Mg 10-10.5 ppm (mg/l) (via JBL Test Kit)
Potassium (K) ~11 ppm (via JBL Test Kit)
Total Chlorine 0.00 ppm (via Hanna Checker)
Free Chlorine 0.00 ppm (via Hanna Checker)
- pH, GH & KH tested via API Freshwater Master Test Kit.
- TDS via 2 cheap and nasty TDS Pens.

Better test devices arriving in 2 weeks:
- Milwaukee Instruments MW102 Pro+ pH pen.
- EC59 Pro TDS and Conductivity pen.
Both of these devices have calibration.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lessons learned: Richgro 1kg Soluble Powder Sulphate of Potash (1 Kg, $11.70 from Bunnings) works fine and tested Phosphate free, however I critically need KH. The +1 KH I get from using Potassium Bicarbonate cannot be given up. There is no interest in using Sodium Bicarbonate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

At this stage, the recipe for next 220 lt. batch of change water is planned as follows:

1.5g of Vitamin C Powder
17g of Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4.7H2O)
5.5g of Potassium Bicarbonate (KHCO3) Buffer
20.5g of Calcium Sulphate (CaSO4.2H2O)
3.5g of Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk
1.1g Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O)
0.4g DTPA Iron Chelate (11%)

Resultant parameters from above plus my tap water will be around pH 7.0-7.4, KH 2, GH 6, TDS 160-170.

Ratios Ca 4 : Mg 1 : K 1.2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone knows of an online Australian retail store where we can buy small quantities (500g or less) of Chelated Zn-EDTA and Mn-EDTA powders, then please advise.

Edited by Gavin
Fixed typing errors.
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8 hours ago, Gavin said:

5) Add 2g of Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2.2H2O). pH 7.1, GH 3, KH 1 degree or less, TDS 98-101. CaCl2 noticeably increased pH! This was unexpected.

6) Add 18.5g of Calcium Sulphate (CaSO4.2H2O). pH 6.75, GH 5, KH 1 degree or less, TDS 151-156. Minimal effect on pH was expected.

7) Add 2g of Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) Chalk. pH 6.95, GH 5, KH 1 degree, TDS 163-169. pH increase was expected.

Did you add the above in sequence, ie. one after the other in order into the same container?

I ask because after adding CaCl2 in step 5, you measure 7.1pH. But in step 6, pH has dropped to 6.75. 
Why do you think that is?

 

Also noticed that when adding Calcium Carbonate in steps 7 & 8, there was no change to KH, yet pH increased dramatically. That can't be right. There should be a correlation between KH and pH.  Try another KH test kit?

 

Love this in depth experiment. 

As for Zinc and Manganese, have you seen this from Bunnings? Is this right for you?

https://www.bunnings.com.au/yates-500ml-citrus-cure-zinc-manganese-chelate_p2961863

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Thanks. That Yates product is the first thing I considered but when you look at the MSDS it's "An aqueous solution of zinc and manganese chelated with lignosulfonate." That's a complex sulphate. It's not EDTA or perferrably... DTPA if we could get hold of that.

The best thing I've found is a Micronutrients Trace Mix called Rexolin APN, 100g of Dry Aquarium Fertilisers.
It has Iron DTPA 6%; Manganese EDTA 2.4% and Zinc EDTA 1.3% which is awesome! But it also has Copper EDTA 0.25% which I'd prefer it had zero copper. Even so, with nothing better to be found I'll order 100g today from here: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/153606793895?hash=item23c3adaaa7:g:4sIAAOSwEEVdVyvq

It can also be purchased from here: https://jagaquatics.com.au/products/trace-micronutrients-mix-dry-aquarium-fertilisers-100g?_pos=4&_sid=f0844f6a7&_ss=r

Both of those links appear to be from the same seller.
I'm going to try it at 2g per 220 lt.

Element ratios:               5g per 220 lt.    2g per 220 lt.
Iron DTPA 6%                  1.36 ppm          0.55 ppm
Manganese EDTA 2.4% 0.55 ppm          0.22 ppm
Boron 1.1%                      0.25 ppm          0.1 ppm
Zinc EDTA 1.3%              0.30 ppm          0.12 ppm
Copper EDTA 0.25%       0.06 ppm          0.02 ppm
Molybdenum 0.25%       0.06 ppm          0.02 ppm
Cobalt EDTA 0.03%        0.007 ppm        0.003 ppm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding change water mix. Yes they were added in sequence (i.e. one after the other in order into the same container). Measurements were taken 5 minutes after each addition.

RE: After adding CaCl2 in step 5, you measure 7.1pH. But in step 6, pH has dropped to 6.75. Why do you think that is?
I think it's because Calcium Sulphate reduced the pH. The alternative answer is a faulty pH reading for Calcium chloride dihydrate. Next batch I'll specifically retest pH just prior to and just after adding CaCl2.

Adding Calcium Carbonate absolutely increases pH dramatically. I think the reason it doesn't immediately increase KH is because of its poor solubility in 'pure water'. However it seems CaCO3 does dissolve over time in an acidic aquarium so it will slowly and thus gently help to limit the drop in pH and KH, which is exactly what I'm after. Especially when my change water is poorly buffered at KH 2 rather than KH 4+ which is wanted for pH stability.

Next month when Hanna is due to be on sale, I'll buy their Alkalinity checker. Then there will be no doubt as the to accuracy KH measurements.

Edited by Gavin
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12 hours ago, Gavin said:

It can also be purchased from here: https://jagaquatics.com.a

Jag Aquatics owner was active on this forum once upon a time. Might even have been a site sponsor once, can't remember now, it's been a while.

 

12 hours ago, Gavin said:

I think it's because Calcium Sulphate reduced the pH. The alternative answer is a faulty pH reading for Calcium chloride dihydrate.

Calcium sulphate doesn't increase KH or pH. So there is only one other possibility. 

That's why I asked you to try adding more Calcium Chloride and less Calcium Carbonate in your recipe.

 

Ideally you should be developing your mix and running test on RO water (0 TDS). Despite Melb water being good, there might be minerals in the tapwater that is influencing your readings.

 

Keep us updated with the new info once you get you new test equipment.

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What ppm of Chloride are people going for in their remineralised RO water mix?

For my next batch I'm thinking of 10 ppm.
 

Below is a compilation of information from various sources as I try to ascertain a suitable value for aquarium use.

==========================================================================================

Chloride concentrations of between 1 and 100 ppm (parts per million) are normal in freshwater. Chlorides in Fresh Water (University of Rhode Island 2012)

Below Rhode Island rivers range normally from about 5-80 ppm Chloride. From 2001 to 2011, pollution has pushed some rivers up to 120 ppm.

 

image.png.da83b5ade02935023bc1c8cfc18da5de.png

Amazon’s rivers contained <5ppm of Chloride prior to 2014. Chemistry of different Amazonian water types for river classification

 

image.thumb.png.affce0b36db3539faaec9993f511f928.png

 

 

African Rift Lakes measured no more than 36.6 ppm of Chloride in 1997. https://malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm

Chemical Constituent

Lake Victoria

Lake Malawi

Lake Tanganyika

Cl (chloride)
(mg/L)

3.9-7.0

3.57-4.3

20.9-36.6

 

High chloride concentrations in freshwater can harm aquatic organisms by interfering with osmoregulation. Exceeding 230 ppm causes chronic (long-term) exposure effects. Department of Environmental Management (DEM) Rhode Island, USA

Fish are less sensitive to chloride exposure than small, free-floating planktonic crustaceans. Evans and Frick, 2001

Chloride tolerance levels for some brook trout species to be as low as 3.1 ppm. Meador and Carlisle (2007)

Rhode Island’s native spotted salamander has a 40% reduction in survival when spawned in a vernal pool with a chloride concentration over 162 ppm. Karraker, 2008

Salt can be used to prevent nitrite poisoning, if the chloride ions are 30 times the concentration of nitrite ions. https://www.algone.com/using-salt-in-the-freshwater-aquarium Nitrite reaches a toxic level at about 0.1 ppm, which would require about 3 ppm of chloride ions. Depending on the salt (sodium chloride) used, it might translate to about 5 ppm (given that common salt has a chloride concentration of 60%) to ease possible nitrite poisoning.

Sodium Chloride is useful for Brown Blood disease (nitrite poisoning) in freshwater fish as well as for a stress reliever in fish transport. A minimum chloride concentration of 20 ppm is recommended to prevent nitrite toxicity. https://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/03/salt-in-freshwater-aquariums.html

Chlorides (CI-) appear to protect fish from nitrite toxicity. Catfish Farmers Handbook page 23 The minimum ration of chloride to nitrite required to protect fish is 3:1, but a 5:1 or 6:1 chloride to nitrite ratio is better, particularly if the fish have an infection or are stressed by another problem.

Fish die at 5.0 ppm Nitrite so assuming 6:1 ratio of Cl to Nitrite then the most Chloride I’ll ever need to help protect them is 30 ppm.

If you find nitrites in pond water, check the chloride concentration to determine the amount of chloride to add to the pond. Use the following formula to calculate the concentration of chloride (CI-)needed for treatment:

 

 

 

concentration of chloride needed = (5 x N) - C

where: concentration of chloride in ppm in water = C

concentration of nitrite in ppm in water = N

Example: Chloride in pond water = 17 ppm

Nitrite in pond water = 7 ppm

Thus, Chloride needed = (5 x 7) – 17 = 18 ppm, the concentration of chloride needed.

 

There are three different forms of chloride that can be used as a pond treatment for "brown blood" disease…sodium chloride (NaC1), anhydrous calcium chloride (CaC12) or dihydrous calcium chloride (CaC12· 2H20). The amount of each of these required to give 1 ppm chloride per acre foot of water is:

 

 

Sodium chloride (NaCI ) = 4.5 lb

Anhydrous calcium chloride (CaC12) = 4.3 lb

Dihydrous calcium chloride (CaC12· 2H20) = 5.6 lb

Edited by Gavin
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3 hours ago, Gavin said:

What ppm of Chloride are people going for in their remineralised RO water mix?

In my Neocaridina tanks, nothing more than 20ppm.

My Caridina tanks are free of (added) chlorides, no reason to add any there. 

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      Update to say that after a few gravel vacs, front wall scrub, moss / floating plant trim, that the condition seems to have improved.  My current theory is that it is due to waste / debris management, where "stuff" like that brown mulm accumulates in the substrate and behind the HMF filters.  Maybe some tanks can somehow deal with it, but mine can't.  Also another experienced shrimper suggested that maybe those "shell bugs" don't just live on the shrimps but also in this debris.  Maybe this is the reason some tanks fail due to "old tank syndrome" where all they need is a good gravel vac? Also, I am guessing that plant trim helps too because now more of the nutrients and light go into growing algae instead of more plants? Well anyway for this tank I will try weekly water change and monthly gravel vac / plant trim.  For my next tank, I'm thinking of something like an under-gravel system where this mulm can fall down and I vac it out.
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Good to have an update and good to hear you are getting shrimplets, so hopefully your colony will continue and you may not get to the point where you have to cull some to stop over population. These type of shrimp only live 12 - 18 months so the adult deaths may be natural? If you have the time I would do weekly 25% water changes, adding the new water via a drip system and do some vacuuming clean of the substrate each week, even if only a different bit each week! See if that helps in a few months and if it does then stick with that regime? It should help reduce any build-ups that may be occuring!
    • beanbag
      Hello again, much belated update: The tank still has "cycles" of 1-2 month "good streaks" where everybody seems to be doing well, and then a bad streak where the short antenna problem shows up again, and a shrimp dies once every few days.  I am not sure what causes things to go bad, but usually over the course of a few days I will start to see more shrimp quietly standing on the HMF filter, and so I know something is wrong.  Since I am not "doing anything" besides the regular 1-2 week water changes, I just assume that something bad is building up.  Here's a list of things that I've tried that are supposed to be "can't hurt" but didn't prevent the problem either: Dose every other day with Shrimp Fit (very small dose, and the shrimp seem to like it) Sotching Oxydator Seachem Purigen to keep the nitrates lower Keeping the pH below 5.5 with peat Things that I don't do often, so could possibly "reset" the tank back to a good streak, are gravel vac and plant trim, so maybe time to try those again. One other problem I used to have was that sometimes a shrimp would suddenly stop eating with a full or partially full digestive tract that doesn't clear out, and then the shrimp will die within a few days.  I suspected it was one of the foods in my rotation - Shrimp Nature Infection, which contains a bunch of herbal plant things.  I've had this in my food rotation for a few years now and generally didn't seem to cause problems, but I removed it from the rotation anyway.  I don't have a lot of adult Golden Bees at this point so I can't really tell if it worked or not. Overall the tank is not too bad - during the good streaks occasionally a shrimp will get berried and hatch babies with a 33-50% survival rate.  So while there are fewer adults now, there are also a bunch of babies roaming around.  I guess this tank will stagger on, but I really do need to take the time to start up a new tank.  (or figure out the problem)
    • jayc
      If that is the offspring, then the parents are unlikely to be PRL. I tend to agree with you. There are very few PRLs in Australia. And any that claim to be needs to show proof. PRL genes have to start as PRL. CRS that breed true after x generations doesn't turn it into a PRL. Neither can a Taiwan bee shrimp turn into a PRL despite how ever many generations. I've never seen a PRL with that sort of red colour. I have on Red Wines and Red Shadows - Taiwan bee shrimps. So somewhere down the line one of your shrimp might have been mixed with Taiwan bees and is no longer PRL. It just tanks one shrimp to mess up the genes of a whole colony. 
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Sorry, missed this one somehow! The PRL look fantastic and the odd ones look part PRL and part Red wine/Red shadow in the colour. They are still very beautiful but ideally should be seperated to help keep the PRL clean if you can do that.  Nice clear photos!
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