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Scientific name neocaridina davidi or not?

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BlueBolts

Just been directed to the change of the scientific name of Neocaridina Heteropoda. its reverted back to Neocaridina davidi. (neocaridia davidi bouvier, 1904) This includes varieties such as Cherry Shrimp, Yellow Fire, Rili, Sunkist etc etc

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KiwiBigD

Where's the link mate, and why the change? Scientific name changes have a pretty intense process and a lot of research behind them, what made so for this one?

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BlueBolts

Not a great deal of info ATM...another extract from the net ....

"Neocaridina heteropoda has been reclassified as Neocaridina davidi. This encompasses all the rilis, sakuras, painted fire red, orange, black, and cherry shrimp. Snowball and blue pearl, which were formally called cf. zhangiajiensis, are reclassified as Neocaridina palmata. While this information is not currently available in English, Werner Klotz and Andreas Karge published it in the new (3rd) edition of “Süßwassergarnelen aus aller Weltâ€, Dähne Verlag, ISBN 978-3935175-90-6. In the next few months, a new book will be coming out by Chris Lukhaup, as well, that will outline many of these changes and will be available in English."

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Squiggle

Very interesting indeed, wouldn't mind getting my hands on a copy of that book when it comes out. Thanks for bringing it to our attention BB :victorious:

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KillieOrCory

Is that publication a peer reviewed journal?

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wayne6442

Well until we can see what and why I will stick with the old classification, but still interesting to see why the change!

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KiwiBigD

Any changes or reclassification for any species has to be peer review and

can not just be accepted, see this a lot with orchids in particular but has to

be a lot of work done to achieve it.

Got to do more reading to locate the reasons and translate the info. Happy

to switch names as seen the confusion in past when people haven't, real

mess it becomes

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northboy

Peer review is such a P in the B, you have to rewrite and rewrite and if they don't like it they Can it and you are back to square 1. Serkan would know that one??

Bob

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NoGi

Library stays as is until this is confirmed/peer reviewed etc

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KiwiBigD

Wasn't suggesting a change to the library at all.

But do some research regarding orchid species reclassification over the years and you will see what I mean. I used to be an orchid judge and redefining species was annoying and can cause major upsets, don't want to see the same happen here.

Often we found the best was to accept the change, discuss if you could contribute something useful otherwise move on. There has to be some good reason for it and a lot of research done to influence and must be pretty solid support for it. But a good side effect is there isn't being research done into our hobby, this should be good for us and something to be embraced I feel.

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JohnH

I'll just stick to calling them Cherry Shrimp and leave the scientific name to the people with bigger brains than me. :anonymous:

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KillieOrCory
Peer review is such a P in the B' date=' you have to rewrite and rewrite and if they don't like it they Can it and you are back to square 1. Serkan would know that one??

Bob[/quote']

Hehe, yes I do :) The importance of a peer reviewed journal is many fold:

*The submitted paper goes through a review panel before publication to ensure the scientific calculations and method used is OK, hypothesis clear, language is understandable by the target audience (other scientists) and most importantly others can duplicate the study to test the accuracy of the findings.

*Most if not all peer reviewed journal are accessible for the whole scientific community worldwide. A description of a new species in an obscure Russian hobby publication in Russia written in Russian is not going to get read by many around the world. That's why there is actually an unofficial ranking system for Peer Reviewed Journals worldwide. Getting published in some is much more prestigious due to the vigorous review and selection process, as well as the journals worldwide coverage.

*Peer reviewed journals do give opportunities for other scientists to publish 'notes' about the original paper in subsequent volumes, pointing out areas where their own research support the papers assertions and on occasion pointing out areas where their own research contradicts the original papers findings etc.

*Usually a researcher that publishes in a small non-peer reviewed publication usually does not have the resources and access to all available material for their subject of study. For example looking at all the collected material of the organism in question (and related material) that is housed in dozens of scientific institutions around the world.

I have generalized above. On the otherhand, there have been instances where a paper published in a small publication decades before have changed the name of a species once it was discovered and found to have followed solid scientific principals for its findings. Publishing date is important.

KiwibigD, it is funny that you mention orchids :) Have I got stories to tell you about Orchid classification :D

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KiwiBigD

Serkan, thats exactly why we've got to catch up sometime, stories. Orchids, shrimps and Killifish, its a small small world

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NoGi

So I've noticed some people are starting to use neocaridina davidi as the scientific name for the cherries. Has this been confirmed that the name officially changed? Can someone post a link.

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ineke

Pretty sure Chris Lukhaup announced it on here last year but I can't find the link. Wikipedia has them as Davidi now.

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NoGi

Thanks, I'll merge this into that thread as there still wasn't confirmation post the discussions around peer-reviews.

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NoGi

So, where did we land with this?

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fishmosy

The book that suggested the name change was published in approx. May 2013. Its not a paper in a scientific journal however it appears to have reviewed the scientific literature regarding small freshwater shrimp and found a paper by Bouvier in 1904 describing the cherry shrimp as Neocaridina davidi, which is older than the paper describing Neocaridina davidi (formerly known as heterpoda), hence 'davidi' is the correct name as in taxonomy, the oldest name is valid.

The question is then, should we follow suit and change the name from davidi (formerly known as heterpoda) to davidi?

I looked at the recent use of the scientific name for cherry shrimp in recent aquarium literature (including what I regard to be the best publications, Practical Fishkeeping and Amazonas) and every one seems to have switched to davidi at around the time the book came out.

My view therefore is we should use davidi.

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jayc

SKF has shown to be anything but at the forefront of all things to do with this hobby.

 

If we are voting, I'd pick Neocaridina davidi as well.

 

However, maybe we express the name as such Neocaridina davidi (Cherry shrimp), so as to not confuse people who are used to the old scientific name, and at the same time educate everyone that the Cherry Shrimp's scientific name has been changed. 

Edited by jayc

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NoGi

Done. I've also configured a rule to automatically change the old name to new if someone uses it. The library articles should be updated too. Let me know if I missed any.

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Squiggle

Very cool research Ben! I have to agree with jayc, when referring to Neocaridina Davidi we should have (cherry shrimp) after it to make it easier & less confusing. :thumbsu:

Nice touch NoGi, well done! :D

Edited by Squiggle

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