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Salty Shrimp GH+

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BlueBolts

Just curious to know whether anyone gets a GH 6 at Ec 200 +/- 50, using the Salty Shrimp GH+ ?

Extract from Salty Shrimp

Use Bee-Shrimp Mineral GH+ to re-mineralise RO water, rainwater, fully desalinated water etc. to reach a total hardness of about 6 °dH and/or a conductance of about 200 +/- 50 µS (Microsiemens). For this purpose, an evenly full measuring spoon (about 3 g) to 20 litres of water is sufficient.

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Squiggle

I can't say I do, I get a GH of 4 & have to raise it to 5 with MgSO4(Epsom Salts) :victorious:

Whats your thinking BB? I'm interested to know what you're trying to work out. :encouragement:

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Dostalgia

i followed the instructions to the Teeeeeeee, but i wasn't able to get the said 6deg of GH. I am only getting a reading of 4-5.

i have a feeling the API gh/kh test kit, isn't very accurate as it counts by drops and colour degree can vary, i just take the test reading as a rough guide.

my tds get a reading of 100 with a +/- 10 tolerance (currently reading 100+ ish) which is close to what was described

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CNgo2006
I can't say I do' date=' I get a GH of 4 & have to raise it to 5 with MgSO4(Epsom Salts) :victorious:

Whats your thinking BB?[/quote']

So to raise the GH you just use epsom salts? I just got a bottle of UP GH builder

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Squiggle
So to raise the GH you just use epsom salts? I just got a bottle of UP GH builder

Yeah, this way I replace any depleted Mg as well to keep the Ca:Mg ratio right. :victorious:

Just gotta make sure your Ca level isn't too low when doing it this way. :encouragement:

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Dostalgia
Yeah' date=' this way I replace any depleted Mg as well to keep the Ca:Mg ratio right. :victorious:[/quote']

i have a whole tub of MgS04, i might try your formula..

may i ask what is the ratio to mix? :P

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Squiggle
i have a whole tub of MgS04' date=' i might try your formula..

may i ask what is the ratio to mix? :P[/quote']

Read this thread before trying to adjust anything, it's an incredibly well written article by BB & it will explain the ratio & relationship between Ca & Mg :encouragement:

Thanks again BB for writing such an informative thread! :victorious:

http://www.shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/showthread.php/4383-GH-Ca-MG-Ratio

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BlueBolts

Plus this thread...http://www.shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/showthread.php/4404-Why-the-need-for-Calcium-amp-Magnesium

Squiggs, just getting GH @ 4 at 150 TDS / 234 Ec..... Should be getting closer to GH 6... Just pondering on a 3rd factor that may influence the GH??? Will ask my guru ... Oli

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Dostalgia

thanks guys :)

looks like i have to grab myself a calcium test kit!

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BlueBolts

Learnt something 2day....

As our shrimps absorb GH/Mg, the chlorides and sulphates remain within the tank, "influencing" TDS, but not at the right %, i.e. higher sulphates / chlorides will maintain the TDS, artificially making us believe we have the right "mix" at Ec 200 +/-, but the GH is continually reduced, and the salty shrimp used is less, as our TDS appear to be OK. Solution = Water Change :)

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Dostalgia

BB, i think your findings will affect people who only top up with RO water only and NOT do water change, those essential minerals will diminish and not get replaced!!

Anyway how often do you guys do your waterchange?

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BlueBolts

Yes, totally agree, the minerals will diminish over time. The point here is that as we top up, and WC all based on TDS, it may show the intended levels, say 150, but the GH components are lower, as the chlorides and sulphates "maintain" this level of TDS. This explains why most mature tanks using RO/salty shrimps are showing lower GH (3-4), where it should be showing 6 , as stated in the product.

Ive not tested it, but using RO, and per salty shrimp instructions at 200 Ec, GH should be 6.

i religiously do a 10% WC per week, often more, depending on feeding schedule etc

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jayc

Similar here. Water change between 10 - 20%.

There is something to be said about water changes that top ups can never replace.

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Squiggle

I completely agree there BB, there will always be a certain amount of mineral reduction & just topping up is never going to be enough. I, like you, do a constant WC of about 10% per week & still find some minerals need to be boosted, i.e. Ca, Mg. As I explained it to another member, imagine you have a room with 20 people & 24 beers & food on the table & each hour you bring out a trolley & put another 6 pack & more food on the table as a "top up" but the people are drinking 10 beers an hour, then after 3 hours you'll only have 12 beers left after the "top up" so you will need to supplement the depletion of beers. I know it's a rough analogy but you get the picture, everything becomes clearer when explained in beer, hahaha :smiley_simmons:

As an extra, if everyone put their empties back on the table it will appear, at first glance, that the levels are still the same but you will need to remove the empties(chlorides & sulfates) to get an accurate count of the remaining beers, beer is such a good teachers aid(in more ways than one, hahaha :stupid:)

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ineke

I have been getting a GH of 6 with a TDS 160 in all of my tanks. I top up with RO only but do 10/20 % water change weekly. The only time my GH gets slightly lower is when I have done large top up either from evaporation or when I have taken water out to fill Kordon bags. I only have a cheap TDS pen , I use an API test kit .

i do a full water test monthly TDS ,PH, GH , KH. AMMONIA, NITRATE , NITRITE. I will need to get a calcium test kit as I haven't tested for that.

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jayc

What is the moral of the story here?

We need to summarise the findings and lessons learnt.

To NOT do so would be an injustice to this thread.

I'll bullet point it and you can all add as needed.

  • Water Top Ups for evaporation is ok, but it's no replacement for regular water changes
  • A water change of 10-20% weekly is a good regime to have in your maintenance plan
  • Matching TDS/EC in your top up or water change to the tank's parameters will not be enough to maintain the calcium and minerals lost/absorb/used by shrimp, fish or plants.
  • Regular testing of GH, KH, TDS and pH is required. Adjustments to Calcium:Magnesium should be made in addition to Top Ups and Water Changes. Calcium is usually depleted faster than Mg, so adjust ratios accordingly.
  • Ideal TDS is around 150-200. I'd go as far as tightening that range to 150-160.
  • Ideal EC is thus 300-320 (assuming 0.5 conversion rate)
  • Ideal GH value is 6. So if your GH is 3-4, it's time for more regular water changes (not just top ups) with additional Ca:Mg mix.

Please correct the list if I missed/misunderstood something.

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ineke

Jayc that's a great list. Does water quality before using your RO unit make any difference? I'm wondering why I'm not having an issue with GH but then Adelaide water has never been the best and I believe it still to be "harder" water than most other states would that make a difference? I haven't done a GH test on tap water here before I use the RO unit but does the unit affect hardness. I'm afraid I'm not much good at chemistry

i guess I should get off my butt and test all water before I use it so I have a base

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Squiggle

RO filtration strips all minerals out of the water & therefore, there will be no Ca, Mg etc, to harden the water, which is why we have to remineralise the water to get it to the desired levels. :victorious:

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jayc
Jayc that's a great list. Does water quality before using your RO unit make any difference? I'm wondering why I'm not having an issue with GH but then Adelaide water has never been the best and I believe it still to be "harder" water than most other states would that make a difference? I haven't done a GH test on tap water here before I use the RO unit but does the unit affect hardness. I'm afraid I'm not much good at chemistry

i guess I should get off my butt and test all water before I use it so I have a base

Oh, I cannot take credit for the list. Everyone contributed.

Tap water is different in each state, and even different in each part of the State, depending on what the local Water supplier adds to treat the water for safe human consumption. So tap water will certainly influence GH, KH, pH, and it will have varying levels of Calcium in the form of hydrated lime. Tap Water will usually have too much Lime and not enough Mg. Water suppliers will also alter levels of these chemicals depending on the weather. More rain and thus more run off in the collection areas will mean more chemicals are needed to maintain a safe level for consumption. So the test results for your tap water last year, doesn't necessarily mean it is going to be the same 1 year on. As an example, the last time I tested Sydney metro water, it had gone up to about 8 pH. Can't remember what GH was.

RO and Rainwater will certainly make things a lot easier to adjust the water to meet the ideal parameters. Without having to first take away what the council put in affecting pH, KH, GH of tap water before we even start worrying about the tap water Ca:Mg ratio.

But having said that, using tap water for water changes and adjusting the parameters as much as you can to suit your shrimps or livestock is better than no water change at all. So don't be afraid to use tap water with a good water conditioner (like Supachlor or Prime), then age it another day or two with cheap Brunnings Peat Moss to reduce pH for those that don't have an RO unit. I prefer Supachlor over Prime, since Supachlor treats the hydrated lime in town water, as well as heavy metals zinc, aluminium, copper. Too much lime in the water has been known to cause fungus. So if you notice uneaten food, or fish getting fungus easily, and you use tap water ... then hydrated lime (dolomite) is one major cause. I talk about Supachlor in more detail in the Water parameter subforum.

Supplementing tap water with what ever rain water you can catch periodically is also good (for those that don't have RO).

I use predominantly rain water now, since building a purpose built collection system. 300L plastic tanks, all plastic roof on my deck, first flush downpipes - no metal parts to contaminate the rainwater. RO is now a backup, and failing that Tap water + Supachlor as a backup backup.

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durro68
....... As I explained it to another member' date=' imagine you have a room with 20 people & 24 beers & food on the table & each hour you bring out a trolley & put another 6 pack & more food on the table as a "top up" but the people are drinking 10 beers an hour, then after 3 hours you'll only have 12 beers left after the "top up" so you will need to supplement the depletion of beers. I know it's a rough analogy but you get the picture, everything becomes clearer when explained in beer, hahaha :smiley_simmons:

As an extra, if everyone put their empties back on the table it will appear, at first glance, that the levels are still the same but you will need to remove the empties(chlorides & sulfates) to get an accurate count of the remaining beers, beer is such a good teachers aid(in more ways than one, hahaha :stupid:)[/quote']

Oh Squig where do you come up with these analogies? Lucky we all understand a beer economy!

Nice thread and Info.

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ineke

I only ever use RO water now and have done since Feb. even for my Cherries and just use the appropriate salty shrimp/minerals. I was just curious as to why I can get a GH of 6 almost every tank and every time I test when others are not.

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jayc

There is probably something you are doing Ineke, that others might not be. Keep doing what you are doing :encouragement:

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Dostalgia
Learnt something 2day....

As our shrimps absorb GH/Mg' date=' the chlorides and sulphates remain within the tank, "influencing" TDS, but not at the right %, i.e. higher sulphates / chlorides will maintain the TDS, artificially making us believe we have the right "mix" at Ec 200 +/-, but the GH is continually reduced, and the salty shrimp used is less, as our TDS appear to be OK. Solution = Water Change :)[/quote']

BB, do you have any idea if Salty shrimp mineral has any chlorides and sulphates in it?

I am confused, if we are using RO water, where do these chlorides and sulphates come from?

Also if cholrides and sulphates can give a false TDS reading, by constantly doing only 10% water change , our TDS reading will keep increasing over time!!!

Man.. this is so confusing :(

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Dostalgia
I only ever use RO water now and have done since Feb. even for my Cherries and just use the appropriate salty shrimp/minerals. I was just curious as to why I can get a GH of 6 almost every tank and every time I test when others are not.

do you have any rocks or shrimp accessories that may leech minerals?

i buy RO water in a 20l jerry can from bunnings with 1 level salty shrimp spoon, as per instruction, but i only get a GH of 4-5 at most.

I usually dissolve it in a 2l bottle by shaking it till all are dissolved, and then pouring back into the 20l jerry can, i measure this a day later and then a week later, i still get the same reading and have never gotten gh6 :(

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ineke

No everything I have in my tanks is shrimp related- benibachi soil for the crystals, fluval stratum for the cherries. I have kept a journal for all my tests and apart from a couple recently they are consistently GH 6 KH 2 since Feb. I always use my TDS pen which was what was initially recommended before the EC measurement started to be mentioned ,when I mix my replacement water. If the TDS in that tank is a bit higher than I want I mix my salty shrimp to a slightly lower TDS.. I do my tests monthly prior to weekly water change. I store my water in plastic containers in the room I keep my shrimp, I mix the salty shrimp as I need it never mix and store . I think it may have something to do with the water I have at home. Perhaps because it is hard anyway the RO unit doesn't change that?? I will test my tap water, my pura tap water and my RO water tomorrow and report the readings for them. I may just be lucky that the water we have is what I need. I also test the same each time and count the drops until the first hint of colour change. I have had 3 test kits in this time (API master freshwater kit) and each kit had a long life use by date. So even if my cheap

TDS pen is not quite right it is consistent as my readings show. I believe this is due to good luck more than anything I particularly do . HOWEVER as you all will know it has taken a long time for my crystals to start breeding despite my "good" water conditions and perhaps my readings have been wrong- I don't really know the answer to that- only that both the mishling tank and the crystal tank has suddenly got berried females. As to my Cherries (except the Yellows) the females are constantly berried and shrimp-let survival rate is extremely high as my running out of room implies:D

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