Salty Shrimp GH+

[ineke]

Couldn't stand it any longer had to do some measurements. Tap was GH 4, Pura Tap GH 4, RO stored for 3 days in plastic container GH 2. Don't know if the RO should have a GH but it does so I am 2 dgh before I start adding my minerals -could that be the reason- I don't know as I said I don't really understand the chemistry and don't look into things I just do what I interpret as what is needed.

[ineke]

RO filtration strips all minerals out of the water & therefore' date=' there will be no Ca, Mg etc, to harden the water, which is why we have to remineralise the water to get it to the desired levels. :victorious:[/quote']

My first chamber membrane of the RO unit is due to be changed but my TDS is 8 on my RO water and has been that high since I first started to use it. I haven't ever done any readings of the straight RO water other than the TDS which I have done pretty well monthly. The GH reading this afternoon was the first reading I have done so not sure if that is because I need to change my membrane but the GH readings of my tanks hasn't changed

[jayc]

BB' date=' do you have any idea if Salty shrimp mineral has any chlorides and sulphates in it?

I am confused, if we are using RO water, where do these chlorides and sulphates come from?

Also if cholrides and sulphates can give a false TDS reading, by constantly doing only 10% water change , our TDS reading will keep increasing over time!!!

Man.. this is so confusing :([/quote']

Salty shrimp ingredients would be a trade secret.

But I would guess the answer is yes, it will have some sulphate salts.

Where do they come from? - Well we add them of course. RO water is devoid of any salts so we remineralise it. Pure RO water is not good for fish or shrimp either.

Calcium Sulphate CaSO4

Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4

have .... sulphate in it.

some premixed products use Calcium chloride.

Water change doesn't increase sulphates/chlorides since you are removing it ... then adding back remineralised RO water ... hopefully you test the new water with a TDS pen to closely match the desired 150-160 TDS. The net effect is no increase. BUT, if you only top up evaporated water, with remineralised RO water then TDS can creep up. Top Up with pure RO should not increase TDS theoretically, since evaporated water is also pure.

An aquarist with a planted tank should also be aware of the trace minerals you are supplying into a shrimp tank. The fertilisers you add for plants will also contain sulphates or chlorides. But I would be more concerned over the chelators in such fertilisers. You will be increasing the level of chelator in the water column over time. EDTA, PDTA or HEEDTA are strong chelators/sequesters that do not breakdown easily. When chelator levels build up, it will literally chelate the minerals (you add) and hold the minerals back from being released; extremely slowly and your shrimp and plants will deprive of those extra minerals you are trying to add.

Again the only fix is ... WATER CHANGE. You gotta physically remove chelators.

[Dostalgia]

Salty shrimp ingredients would be a trade secret.

But I would guess the answer is yes' date=' it will have some sulphate salts.

Where do they come from? - Well we add them of course. RO water is devoid of any salts so we remineralise it. Pure RO water is not good for fish or shrimp either.

Calcium Sulphate CaSO4

Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4

have .... sulphate in it.

some premixed products use Calcium chloride.

Water change doesn't increase sulphates/chlorides since you are removing it ... then adding back remineralised RO water ... hopefully you test the new water with a TDS pen to closely match the desired 150-160 TDS. The net effect is no increase. BUT, if you only top up evaporated water, with remineralised RO water then TDS can creep up. Top Up with pure RO should not increase TDS theoretically, since evaporated water is also pure.

An aquarist with a planted tank should also be aware of the trace minerals you are supplying into a shrimp tank. The fertilisers you add for plants will also contain sulphates or chlorides. But I would be more concerned over the chelators in such fertilisers. You will be increasing the level of chelator in the water column over time. EDTA, PDTA or HEEDTA are strong chelators/sequesters that do not breakdown easily. When chelator levels build up, it will literally chelate the minerals (you add) and hold the minerals back from being released; extremely slowly and your shrimp and plants will deprive of those extra minerals you are trying to add.

Again the only fix is ... WATER CHANGE. You gotta physically remove chelators.[/quote']

Agreed with what you said, but with EI dosing, we do 50% water change 1-2 times a week... but in a shrimp tank, its only 10% and once per week!

I am not good with chemistry, but to my limited knowledge, EDTA and DTPA solubility is due to PH/kH.

I am not sure if the below makes sense:

If you have a 100% solution of 1%trace, removing 10% of the solution = 0.1%trace

When you top up 10% solution of 1% trace back, your current solution is 100% but your trace creeps up to 2%

As you repeatedly remove only 10% your leftover trace builds up!

Won't this build up increase TDS and give a false reading?

[jayc]

I am not good with chemistry' date=' but to my limited knowledge, EDTA and DTPA solubility is due to PH/kH.[/quote']EDTA for example is sparingly soluble at a pH of 2.But at a pH of 6.2 or higher, EDTA is soluble in water and is capable of complexing metal ions very strongly.Something doesn't add up with that sentence.What the Trace element we are talking about here? sulphates?When you top up with that 10% of clean water, you are not adding 1% of pure sulphates. You are instead adding minerals composed of many other things of which sulphates might be one of them in much lower quantities then 1%. Also note, you are only adding enough minerals for that bucket of 10% water change. You are not adding enough for a whole tanks worth.I don't see how it is a false reading if TDS creeps up from sulphates or chlorides. If you notice TDS increasing with a TDS pen, then its time to change water.The remedy is still a water change but with less minerals or even none added to the water change to bring TDS down.

[Dostalgia]

EDTA for example is sparingly soluble at a pH of 2.

But at a pH of 6.2 or higher' date=' EDTA is soluble in water and is capable of complexing metal ions very strongly.

Something doesn't add up with that sentence.

What the Trace element we are talking about here? sulphates?

When you top up with that 10% of clean water, you are not adding 1% of pure sulphates. You are instead adding minerals composed of many other things of which sulphates might be one of them in much lower quantities then 1%. Also note, you are only adding enough minerals for that bucket of 10% water change. You are not adding enough for a whole tanks worth.

I don't see how it is a false reading if TDS creeps up from sulphates or chlorides. If you notice TDS increasing with a TDS pen, then its time to change water.

The remedy is still a water change but with less minerals or even none added to the water change to bring TDS down.[/quote']

Thanks for trying to understand me JayC :encouragement:

but i don't think i can explain it well enough nor do i understand shrimp keeping enough to make this discussion more meaningful :(

Anyway i just want to check if i am doing things right with salty shrimp minerals.

1) new tank 35l - cycled.

2) final 100% water change with salty shrimp mineral + RO water (amount of minerals added is calculated from 20l to 1salty shrimp spoon..did the maths for 35l and added to my tank)

3) shrimps added

4) weekly maintaince, 10% water change, re-add 10% of RO+salty shrimp mineral solution (solution = 20l ro water + 1 salty shrimp spoon mineral)

is this how you guys do it?

[jayc]

4) weekly maintaince' date=' 10% water change, re-add 10% of RO+salty shrimp mineral solution (solution = 20l ro water + 1 salty shrimp spoon mineral)

[/quote']

10% of 35L is only 3.5L, let's just say 3Litres for simplicity.

But you are adding minerals for 20L ?

Doesn't sound right.

Do you have a TDS pen?

It's very helpful to have one for measuring water change just like this.

[Squiggle]

1 scoop per 20L is just a guide, you really need to check the TDS/EC to make sure your mineral content is accurate. :victorious:

[Dostalgia]

10% of 35L is only 3.5L' date=' let's just say 3Litres for simplicity.But you are adding minerals for 20L ?Doesn't sound right.Do you have a TDS pen?It's very helpful to have one for measuring water change just like this.[/quote']i add back 10% from a 20l solution, 3.5l as you have said :)yes i do have a TDS pen.what should the mineral content for CRS be?What i get from my TDS pen in both my tank is around 120ppm, my top up solution is around 110ppm. EC converstion rate is 1.5, hence around 180EC in my tank

[jayc]

i add back 10% from a 20l solution' date=' 3.5l as you have said :)

yes i do have a TDS pen.

what should the mineral content for CRS be?

What i get from my TDS pen in both my tank is around 120ppm, my top up solution is around 110ppm. EC converstion rate is 1.5, hence around 180EC in my tank[/quote']

I see. You are only adding 3.5L. I assume you premix 20L in a bucket or something.

TDS for CRS should be 150.

[Squiggle]

Yeah the EC should be 200 for CRS & then you do the conversion to whichever TDS pen you have :victorious: