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jayc

CRS - developing Red Legs

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jayc

Is it common to see CRS develop Pretty Red Legs in it's life span through good water quality and food ?

I have had my batch of CRS 4-5 months.

pH: constant 6.5

TDS: constant 140-150 (Mosura Mineral Plus)

KH: 1

GH: 5

Calcium: 60-80ppm (depending on when I measure, as I add Calcium Sulphate at water change)

I've noticed in the last month or two, that not one, but all of the adults are showing significantly improved colouration, as well as developing colour in their legs. None of them had any colour in the legs when I first bought them.

I didn't think that CRS could develop colour in their legs so quickly. I thought if they didn't have them when young, they wouldn't get them. I'm not complaining, but just curious to see what other's experiences are.

Does it come with age perhaps?

Since my juvies, don't seem to have PRL (Pretty Red Legs), at least I can't see it yet.

((Yeah I know PRL is Pure Red Line, this is the other PRL :) ))

Is there anything I can do further that might increase the development of P. R. Legs ?

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hoang1912

u have to select breeding or ask someone donate/sell the one which have red leg for u to add to ur project :encouragement:

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jayc

But that is more selective breeding and playing with genetics with results only in the next gen.

I'm talking about the shrimp developing and changing it's leg colour, which certainly seems possible, without selective breeding.

I'm sure selective breeding of Red legs will produce a likelihood of more red leg offsprings.

My A or S grade CRS would now have gone up a grade with good environment and food.

I guess what I'm getting at is if this is something common (ie. legs changing colour), or if it's something I'm doing?

I'm kinda leaning towards the Mosura mineral plus I'm using to remineralise rain water or RO water. I've been using it in my fish tank, and I notice the fish have never looked better !

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BlueBolts

Great post jayc.....I've gone the reverse, and got one of my "PRL's" to loose the leg colours (bhahahahahaha) ,.....with lower GH, Higher TDS, and less minerals.... With my limited experience with PRL's / Sexy Legs, they don't tend to exhibit coloured legs during the juvi stage. WP and Diet is critical IMHO...

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jayc
Great post jayc.....I've gone the reverse' date=' and got one of my "PRL's" to loose the leg colours (bhahahahahaha) [/quote']

Ahahaha, I'm sorry for laughing, but you laughed first. I think it was contagious.

So it IS possible to improve on leg colouration !

In my case, the duration wasn't that long either.

From the time I got my CRS with no or little colour in their legs, till the time I noticed the change was 3 months, maybe 4.

Don't have any pics of mine yet.

The one CRS I have in mind of taking a photo is also BERRIED ! Double bonus.

Unfortunately, that means she is hiding a lot. And my CRS tank is heavy planted.

I've gotta do more research on whether any specific foods will help. And how to get Sexy Red Legs to turn into Sexy White Legs.

Any ideas BB (on how to get white legs) ? Or is that genetics?

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BlueBolts

There's no doubt genetics plays a HUGE part. Doesn't matter how perfect and conducive the WP are, but if the shrimps do not genetically have the potential, then they won't have coloured legs. I find a diet of high "calcium" foods and WP rich in calcium promotes these attributes, but again the shrimps will need to have these characteristics in the 1st place....

C3222245-5A0C-4D63-A375-6062ED82E00E-19432-00001240E0DEE189.jpgf929da92023db77f9a8a755434ff907e.jpg7300F05F-5F5A-4ACB-B8D6-77851259F27F-968-0000006F061A540C.jpg

Yes, one day I'll learn how to take better pics :-(

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jayc

Cool pics. Don't worry about your photography skills. It's your shrimp keeping skills that are valued here. Besides, the blurriness adds to the effect of "motion".

I think I have the calcium part down.

I am going to experiment with a protein diet.

I feed my shrimps, what I think is, a lot of vegetable based foods. Mulberry leaves, IAL leaves, algae tablets, Mosura CRS specialty, bee pollen, spirulina. But not much protein. Sure there is some protein in those foods, but it's going to be low. We talk a lot about these veg based foods a lot, but not much about protein foods.

Has anyone tried pieces of fish, prawns, freeze dried blood worms for example?

The risk with these foods is that they will go off pretty fast, so gotta be careful to get them out after a couple of days at most.

Vitamins B12, D3 are some vitamins that are lacking in vege based foods, but is found in fish and prawns ie Meat.

Could this impact colouration ?

I'll be introducing more protein into my shrimp's diet.

Another colouration impact on shrimp is astaxanthin. This is what give the prawns their orange colour when cooked.

Check out this interesting read ...

ftp://ftp.sp.gov.br/ftppesca/37_2_177-182.pdf

"This preliminary study has reported that the background tank color influences the color of shrimp, but does not interfere significantly in the carotenoid amount accumulated in shrimp."

And

Also interestingly ... "The blue/gray color observed in in natura shrimp is due to the accumulation of crustacyanin, a protein-astaxanthin complex that becomes orange with complex dissociation ... (cooking)"

What your Blue Bolt shrimps to be even bluer? Feed them astaxanthin.

Another interesting read from page 3 onwards.

http://archimer.ifremer.fr/doc/1989/acte-1466.pdf

"In industrialized shrimp farming, the animals are deprived of their natural feed sources. If, therefore, the respective carotenoids normally present in the diet, or possibly a substitute, are not included in the feed, the carotenoid content will decrease and the integuments will fade as depicted in Fig. 2"

So where do we get astaxanthin?

The highest sources are from salmon, or any red or pink seafood and algae.

So WHAT IF, it's not just genetics that we commonly place our knowledge of where colour or pigmentation influence comes from, but the fact that we are/have deprived these captive shrimp of some natural diet that greatly influences their colour? - discuss

So salmon sushi is going to be on my shrimp's diet. It'll only be a trial. Not even sure if CRS will eat fish meat.

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BlueBolts

Frozen Bloodworms is a great source of fat/protein, and conditions them for breeding. I used to feed my shrimps oysters, salmon, freshwater fish etc.... but didn't find it made much of a difference.......shrimps are scavengers ....

In terms of colour and shell thickness.... don't forget the theory of lighting. Many hobbyist believe that lighting plays a critical role in shell thickness.

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ineke

Mine love the blood worms even the babies fight over them. I do feed crab cuisine and shrimp cuisine which I believe have high protein I might check them tomorrow. Shrimp room closed for the night.;)

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jayc

You've fed them all those things, but at random. Now armed with the knowledge I have shared about astaxanthin, we should try again with a greater emphasis on salmon since that is a high source of astaxanthin.

Ah, so you've fed them salmon before. And they take it readily?

Did you have to leave it in the tank for long?

Cooked or raw?

What's the theory on lighting again?

More light or less light?

I see your lighting and call you on dried algae.

Did you know that certain algae when faced with being drying out, produces more astaxanthin as a defence mechanism, which the shrimp would eat, and thus enhance their pigmentation?

Dried algae as another source of food. Don't throw out your hair algae.

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jayc
Mine love the blood worms even the babies fight over them. I do feed crab cuisine and shrimp cuisine which I believe have high protein I might check them tomorrow. Shrimp room closed for the night.;)

Ah Ineke has joined the conversation.

Crab cuisine and Shrimp cuisine has very little content of both. It's bulked up mainly by veg materials. Doesn't count towards any beneficial impact of pigmentation.

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Wraithie

To choose between raw and fresh i think more info on the chemical result of cooking

"crustacyanin, a protein-astaxanthin complex that becomes orange with complex dissociation ... (cooking)"

Does this affect the structure of astaxantin or make it more or less bioavailable?

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jayc

Does this affect the structure of astaxantin or make it more or less bioavailable?

Not sure. Astaxanthin is a carotenoid, like the carotenoid found in carrots. It's still available after cooking, but whether astaxanthin is more readily available in raw or cooked, i'm not sure.

I think it is more important to determine whether the shrimps prefer to accept this new food in raw or cooked form.

Getting them to eat an astaxanthin food source is the aim.

Now if only BB can return to let us know how he fed his shrimp salmon previously & how his shrimp accepted it, I can take some guess work out.

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BlueBolts

It's been ages since my shrimps went to the sashimi bar, but I must have stopped the treat because they don't go crazy on it...... they were more excited with the soft part of raw oysters, and I only used to feed it just a day before the planned filter clean.

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jayc

I've found a source of Astaxanthin !!

Cyclop Eeze freeze dried fish food !!

Provides unparalleled growth, color enhancement, and disease resistance. These selectively bred, bio-engineered micro-crustaceans, cultured in a pristine arctic lake, contain the highest known levels of natural carotenoid pigments and Omega-3 fatty acids – essential for invertebrate development. High levels of immuno-stimulating bio-molecules and biological pigments make Cyclop-Eeze nutritionally superior to Artemia nauplii.

CYCLOP-EEZE® contains 20 unique fatty acids, 16 free amino acids and 8 minerals. The Antioxidants and the Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acids (HUFAs), particularly those of the ""omega-3"" family, are extremely high in CYCLOP-EEZE®.

CYCLOP-EEZE® is voraciously consumed by all animals because they are very rich in the attractant Betaine as well as other palatability factors. Carotenoid pigments, especially astaxanthene are very important in limiting cell damage. Astaxanthene has been proven to ""scavenge"" harmful free radicals within the human as well as animal body. CYCLOP-EEZE® contain the highest known concentration of Astaxanthene.

www.cyclop-eeze.com

Now to find a retailer that has a 30gm bottle in stock.

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